Carter-Baker Report B.S.!!! The Press Smells a Rat

[autorank]

Every American has a right to vote.

Every American has a right to have their vote counted.

Every American has a right to know with absolute precision and openness that their vote has been counted and totaled accurately.

It ain't that hard folks. You just get paper ballots, have everybody watch the count, and post the PRECINCT totals on the f'ing internet. That way the County/State election officials can pick up the accurate total, which is also posted in front of the PRECINCT witnessed by all parties. Keep the ballots forever, under lock and key with video surveillance and allow recounts by just about anybody (which wouldn't be necessary with both parties observing the original count and open availability of each precincts total to all).

It's not that hard!

But Carter-Baker made it hard by what they included and what they omitted.

The National Voter ID Card is a terrible idea...just awful because it's tied to the Brave New World National ID Drivers License. Guess what, lots of people don't have licenses. They're supposed to get the ID for free. Oh, sure, that will happen.

Georgia has a $20 price tag on their Voter ID. Can anyone spell JIM CROW VOTING LAWS

This is total garbage.

We should have known. Baker begot Bolton who begot the "preppy riot" which begot the end of the recount. Jeb Bush begot Catherine Harris who begot the Vin Weber software for "felon purging" which begot the disenfranchisement of at least 50,000 black Floridians who tried to vote.Didn't Carter remember that when he signed on with Baker

They avoided the stunning problems with voting machines and failed to point out that voting machines are totally unnecessary, totally. If I can figure out a fool proof method of voting and vote tabulation, why can't they. Nobody paid me, I had no staff.

Well, the press is actually doing it's job. The Carter-Baker Commission Report has generated a lot of attention on the lousy state of affairs in American elections. Here's a sample.

[texpatriot2004]

1. How could they possibly miss the "stunning" (and they were

stunning) problems with the electronic voting machines? They couldn't possibly miss them, they must have ignored them and instead focused on some made up bullshit problems so that they didn't have to deal with the obvious. Reminds me of the Warren Commission...make some things up and call it done.

What on earth was Jimmy Carter thinking to lend his good name to this trash?

[autorank]

3. Well, about that name..

Dr. Pastor, the American University academic who was Commission Director, was a signatory on the famous 1998 letter to Clinton demanding an invasion of Iraq to take care of WMD. Guess what, prior to that Dr. Pastor had headed a big part of Carter's efforts for "fair elections" in Latin America. I bet they were glad to see that guy show up. Pastor is also some sort of strange theorist who wants the US, Mexico and Canada to merge into one big country, soon.

I think Carter has permanently tarnished his reputation. When he ran for President he made some crazy about people having a right for "ethnic purity" in their neighborhoods. Was that a hint?

We don't need him. We have Conyers, Russ Holt, Wes Clark (who has stayed on task, slammed * on NOLA before anyone in the whole party). There are many more, Dennis Kucinich, Boxer, Sweitzer, the Governor of Montana who is a real populist.

Adios elitist Democrats and Republicans. We can't trust you anymore.

[Usrename]

11. Jimmy took a pretty nice swing at Fstick McAWOL the other day.

He must be gettin powerful pissed-off cause he never starts anything with anybody. Were all just God's people ya know. He rattles off a bunch of promises he made when he started FEMA; things like always staffed with competent people, always well funded, report directly to the President, and 2 or 3 more. Then he says "George Bush has broken every one of my promises that I made". He was mad. Not hurt, but mad. Ready to take a poke at somebody I would say. Ya gotta be living real wrong to get Jimmy hating ya!

[bos1]

7. Carter is an enigma.

He's the prez who made Human Rights a policy platform, but is also the prez that started registration for the draft. He's the prez who says Gore won the last election, but he himself rolled over on major shenanigans by the Reagan crooks during his own unsuccessful reelection campaign (the debategate scandal, where as it turned out Team Reagan had a mole in the Carter White House copying all the debate notes). I don't know, maybe the guy is a well-meaning but flakey wimp.

[hippiechick]

22. google 'TriLateral Commission'

Carter was an insider long ago, despite his honorable and truly small d-democratic and small c-christian practices.

I can't figure him out, either.

[bobbieinok]

38. debate--GWills prepped Reagan + then wrote abt how R beat Carter

this OF COURSE did not come out until after the election

[paineinthearse]

2. Conyers is all over this.

"See Stop Baker3 & Carter's national ID requirement to vote" in the 2004 election forum & "Alexandrovna: Baked-Cooked Election Reform" in same location - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4829315&mesg_id=4829315

[autorank]

4. He's my guy to replace Cheney right before they "resign" Bush!

WWJCD=What Would John Conyers Do?

The question every politician should ask before acting on an issue.

And please, John C, come on over to a forum that embraces all of your agenda, one that believes that elections were stolen and votes suppressed...take a walk on the reality-based side.

[paineinthearse]

6. He'll get this

you bet!

[Usrename]

13. John C is the man with the answers.

He knows all the wrongs that must be righted. He knows a lot more than that, actually. It is amazing how much he knows about everything. But that is the question everyone should ask, WWJCD?

[autorank]

36. As usual, Username, you are on target!

[Dunvegan]

5. I just have to say it...Conyers is amazing.

He stays on top of ALL these truly important and pressing issues.

His website is a treasure of presentation revealing the backroom deceptions passed off as responsible legislature and wrapped up in a flimsy prentense of law and governance.

My.

An elected official that actually READS the laws he's expected to vote on in representation of his constituents...and he even shares that information with constituents in transparancy by web publishing all of these issues in their full light.

I just wanted to say that Conyers is a wonder...a real mench. Does my birth state proud.

[AtomicKitten]

8. How could it not stink? Baker was involved.

What the hell is Jimmy C doing getting Baker stink on him? What the hell was this dog and pony show all about? To give us the appearance of doing something about Republican voter fraud? Nice try. Thanks for playing. Drive through.

[Dunvegan]

9. AtomicKitten...isn't Carter our Internatonal Man of Election Mysteries?

He's been on election monitoring teams for years:

http://cartercenter.org/peaceprograms/program10.htm

"Promoting democracy and monitoring elections around the world, the Carter Center Democracy Program works to give people control over how they are governed:

* Conducting international election monitoring with teams of election observers
* Strengthening the capacity of civic organizations to participate in government policy making, and
* Promoting the rule of law.

In promoting democracy, the Democracy Program incorporates a commitment to the protection and advancement of broad-based human rights values, upon which former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and Rosalynn Carter founded The Carter Center.

To learn more about how the program helps struggling democracies, read a Q&A with Democracy Program Director David Carroll."

Well, I guess America falls square under the designation of a "struggling democracy" these days....

[Nothing Without Hope]

10. TWENTY BUCKS FOR A VOTER ID???!!! That is pure evil, so blatantly voter

suppression! You can also bet there would be "glitches" in Dems getting them even with the $20, just as Dem registrations had a way of disappearing in the last two elections.

Recommended. We CANNOT let up on this.

[autorank]

19. Here's the headline: "REPUBLICANS REVIVE JIM CROW"

Sorry if it offends them but their tactics, particularly Georgia,offend all Americans share a belief in free and fair elections (99%)!

This is everybody's issue!

[Nothing Without Hope]

24. Too bad so many Americans don't know what "Jim Crow" means any more

Because it's exactly what's going on. After all, they couldn't kill ALL of them by letting them lie after Katrina and now Rita.

And that is another area DESPERATELY needing publicity - the southern LA parishes wiped out by Rita are not even declared a disaster area and are NOT receiving help. But the US Press is allowing the Bushies to pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1806030

Meanwhile, hundreds of small communities across the Katrina-devastated South are STILL abandoned by FEMA and pretty much by the ARC too. After all, they're poor and mostly black - who will miss them or even notice them?

We cannot allow this silence and these lies go go on unopposed.

[jody]

12. Do you oppose "voter ID" or just the $20 cost? n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

16. The whole idea of voter ID is a sham.

In fact, it is probably being created as a way to explain how they win next time.

They'll say, oh, there was a lower turnout because of voter ID, so the Republicans won. What they do is they create a "plausible" reason why they won. Last time it was gay marriage, and even Blackwell's shenanigans: a lesser evil to deflect from the widescale stealing of votes that is taking place across the country.

[autorank]

17. Sorry I wasn't more precise.

The special voter ID is a bad idea period. We have enough ID's now. A very focused investigation by Republicans in Milwaukee turned up only 12 suspected illegal voters, "vote fraud." They did an ambush media (TV) interview with one who turned out to be a young seminarian who was totally innocent. Meanwhile, the county had 200 registered voters locked up in a holding cell without any convictions who were denied the right to vote.

Back to ID's. How about a passpord, a regular drivers license, the sacred social security card. I'm in Virginia. WE DON'T PRESENT ID. We give address. We hardly ever hear of anyone trying to steal the vote. There are severe penalties.

If they can, they will charge for the Voter ID. Look at Georgia. You'll see much more of that in Republican controlled states. The Car ter-Baker Commission has provided cover for these Jim Crow efforts to their eternal shame.

[jody]

25. The report said " States should play an affirmative role in reaching out

to non-drivers by providing more offices, including mobile ones, to register voters and provide photo IDs free of charge." See Building Confidence in U.S. Elections

Why do you object to a state providing "photo IDs free of charge"?

I'm sure there are other items in the report that should be questioned but, I don't see what's wrong with what the Carter-Baker report recommendation. :shrug:

[autorank]

27. There is a workable system in place. Show me problems with ID's

that rise to a level worthy of change (our current IDs). Voter fraud is far less prevalent than "election fraud" -- suppression, machine tampering, tabulator tampering, etc. etc.

Why are you so wedded to a system that is a catastrophe in the last two elections?

What is your bias against the maximum participation with the fewest barriers.

Look at today's Election news 9/27, the editorials. They provided a full critique on this less than effective panel and set of recommendations.

Maybe you want to let the Republicans and the commission dilettantes roll over us again and again, but I don't. Why do you defend them?

[jody]

28. The question is how do poll workers confirm that a voter is legitimate?

You ask
QUOTE
Why are you so wedded to a system that is a catastrophe in the last two elections?

What is your bias against the maximum participation with the fewest barriers.
UNQUOTE

Apparently you don't read very well.

I was responding to assertions that the Carter-Baker report supported states charging $20 or other outrageous fees for a voter ID. That's wrong as I pointed out by quoting the report that recommended free photo IDs.

[autorank]

29. Temper, temper

I read quite well. In my state, Virginia, they ask your name and address, they check it off on a master sheet, and that's it. It works quite well. In other states, there are a variety of ID's that can be used and are used now. There is no massive or even significant known problem with "vote fraud" meaning the wrong people working. That's correct unless you accept the Republican sponsored "vote fraud" organization which is supposedly bipartisan (head of it is a "Democrat" who headed Democrats for Bush). They say vote fraud is everywhere but show it nowhere at rates that don't amount to much compared to election fraud, which is massive.

A new national Voter ID card tied to the Orwellian national ID card Congress passed this year is a barrier to the current system of access to the vote. It makes it harder in 38, thirty eight, states. Only 12 have Voter ID cards. It also makes the concept of a card acceptable in the other 38 states, which have total freedom to add any fee they want. It's a bit disingenuous for the Commission to come up with a codicil about no charges when they introduce expansion of the concept. Remember, this will not come from Federal action, not any time soon. It will come from state action. GA is already adopting some of the proposals and others may follow. As they nip away at states like mine without this requirement, they will make it harder to vote. Did you see the quote from the JFK School of Government?

If you're a Democrat, you want an expanded voter franchise, as many people voting as possible without restrictions or discouragement. If you're a Republican, you want Voter ID cards, special fees, fewer precincts, "centralized voting" locations, etc. It's that simple.

[jody]

30. In the OP, you wrote:

QUOTE
But Carter-Baker made it hard by what they included and what they omitted.

The National Voter ID Card is a terrible idea...just awful because it's tied to the Brave New World National ID Drivers License. Guess what, lots of people don't have licenses. They're supposed to get the ID for free. Oh, sure, that will happen.

Georgia has a $20 price tag on their Voter ID. Can anyone spell JIM CROW VOTING LAWS

This is total garbage.
UNQUOTE

That leaves the strong impression that the Carter-Baker report supported Georgia's $20 Voter ID and that's a false impression. If you wish to correct that false impression, it would be a nice gesture.

[autorank]

31. Here you go

"Georgia has a $20 price tag on their Voter ID. Can anyone spell JIM CROW VOTING LAWS"

This sentence may leave a strong impression with you that I said C-B supported the GA law but there is nothing in the sentence that even indicates that. In posts previous to this, I think, and in the one your responding to I make it clear that C-B endorses the concept and the states can apply it any way they want. On edit: meaning they can say this is a C-B suggestion and use that as cover to add a fee. Do you know anything about Jim Crow laws?

That's crystal clear. You have a "strong impression" but that's you read. It's not in the text and it's clearly the opposite in the message you're responding to.

I'm not going to have a little spat with you and I'm certainly not going to correct anything that is based on your incorrect misreading.

We don't agree. That's it.

[jody]

32. You are right "We don't agree". Goodbye. n/t

[windbreeze]

33. So how would they work that

if your county has just decided, w/o your vote, by the way...to force everyone to vote absentee??? We had our first election..and our first snafu...vote for a new hospital, was left off some of the ballots...seems to me, once we are registered...there is NO need for an ID card, since we are never going to see the inside of a polling venue again.
windbreeze

[autorank]

34. Here's a way to work things...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x394982

I am a Clark supporter (and a Gore supporter if he runs). I'd like my vote t count. Hence, I came up with the "election model" above.

I think people should vote in person. If by mail, then you have counting by machine with "proprietary" software nobody can see but the vendors. You have it done in secret because it's hard to even find out where they do it. It sucks.

You're right about never seeing a polling venue again. We're never going to know if our votes are counted again and they're making it harder to vote.

[In Truth We Trust]

14. Paper ballots NOW!!! Hand counts NOW!!! Impeachment NOW!!! nt

[Kolesar]

15. Wealthy Democrats could fund those $20 I.D.s

I'll take a dozen.

[autorank]

18. Better yet, give it your state election refurm group.

They'll get this stopped in no time.

Does everybody understand what's going on: WE'RE RETURNING TO JIM CROW LAWS BASED ON RACIAL AND NOW CLASS DISCRIMINATION.

How emboldened the Republicans are!

But what can we expect from a party that tries to rehabilitate Michael Brown?

[sadiesworld]

20. Free voter ID cards should be an acceptable trade-off

for hand-counted paper ballots. We can get voter IDs to people, we can't manage republican-controlled electronic voting machines.

Of course, I don't think this compromise will ever occur. The pukes can go on thinking that a lot of ineligible people are voting (crap) and the dems can continue to think the machines are rigged (true).

"Promote tranquility" my ass.

[jody]

26. The Carter report recommended "provide photo IDs free of charge".

Like you, I don't see what's wrong with that recommendation.

[bleever]

21. A bad solution is worse than no solution, and this is a BAD

solution.

Poll tax + false sense of confidence in results = giant step backwards.


:mad:

[autorank]

39. They do have a lot of nerve don't they. Taking "Southern Strategy" to all

[zann725]

23. When this report came out,Carter admitted at Amn. U that Gore won '00 elec

The timing of Carter's statement at American U. speech was obvious. Clearly he had no control over the final content of the Report.

Carter further said, "No doubt about it..." with reference to Gore's victory. Given Carter's history of defending voter rights abroad, this must really steam him.

[stickdog]

35. VOTING IS A SACRED RIGHT, NOT A FUCKING PRIVILEGE!!!

Take REAL ID and shove it, Baker!

All we want is every fucking vote counted accurately and securely. We don't want only the Party members sanctioned by Big Brother to have the right to vote, you totalitarian asshats!

[autorank]

37. Democrats=As many voters as possible: Republicans=As few...

Lovely aren't they.