"He can't be president because he's short, Jewish and divorced."

[eyesroll]

This is what I was told by a fellow Democrat last night at a meeting. It was in regard to Russ Feingold.

I don't want this to turn into a flame war about his Roberts vote or his Ashcroft vote or even a praise fest about his Patriot Act vote. For the sake of this discussion, all factors other than the subject criteria -- height, religion, marital status -- are irrelevant. Assume we're talking about an otherwise ideal candidate who happens to be short, Jewish and divorced.

I say it was an exceptionally crass way of making a possibly valid point -- that the electorate does indeed prefer taller candidates, and that they might not be ready to vote for a Jewish man or for someone who is twice divorced and not currently married.

I turned to the person who said this and pointed out I am also short, Jewish and divorced, mentioned I was under 35 and thus can't legally be president and asked from what other jobs my status might disqualify me.

What say you? Can a short man be elected president? Can a Jewish man get elected these days? What about divorce?

[rodeodance]

1. short?

[Ian David]

I'd vote for a short president...

[zulchzulu]

80. Russ is about 5'11". I know. I've stood next to him

He's "short"?

[Capn Sunshine]

90. Bush is 5'11 also per his physical records

Here's a discussion of W's medical conditions:
http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/t43.htm

[Stevepol]

2. Anybody who can rig the voting machines can get elected.

Does your hypothetical candidate have computer skills? Does he have an "in" at ES&S or Diebold?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

59. get on your tin foil hats folks

we have another conspiracy theory at du :tinfoilhat:

[Marnieworld]

86. You're kidding right?

This is an accepted fact. Go to the 2004 election forum http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203 they'll learn you real quick like.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

100. accepted fact to conspiracy theorist

Perhaps to the fringe this is accepted fact, but to the mainstream it's another conspiracy theory.

[DBoon]

3. John Kerry was taller than Bush

(of course we know Kerry was really elected).

Sir Ronald was divorced. Didn't stop the born-agains from voting for him.

[SteppingRazor]

4. Three quick answers ---

Short -- Yes. The TV camera can do wonderful things. And in any case, the taller can didate lost in 2004

Jewish -- not bloody likely. There are more anti-semites in the U.S. than there are Jewish people. Nuff said.

Divorced -- depends. Divorced and currently remarried? Absolutely. Attention will focus on the current wife.
Divorced and single? No way. Only one single man has ever been president in the history of the country.

[sabbat hunter]

14. actually

only one Bachelor has ever been president (As in never married) others like Andrew Jackson lost their wives while in the white house (and was reelected as a widower, his wife died 2 months before he took the oath of office, but after election day.)

there might have been another like that, but andy jackson came right to my mind.

and i think Ronald Reagan's election took a bit of the heat off of divorcee's.

guess there was one plus to come out of his term in office

[SteppingRazor]

19. Right, but a widower whose wife died while he was in office?

Hell, that'll just help the re-election campaign :evilgrin:

[Donna Zen]

36. Buchanan was never married.

IIRC, Feingold is about to have his second divorce.

[Arkana]

68. That was James Buchanan, the 15th Prez,

and there is still strong speculation that he was gay.

[Donna Zen]

77. Of one thing we can be sure:

He was a useless president which has nothing to do with his sexual orientation.


The only one from Pennsylvania.

[Arkana]

78. Yes, but answer me this--

Buchanan....or Bushturd**?

[eyesroll]

38. "There are more anti-semites in the U.S. than there are Jewish people."

That's a false dichotomy, though -- it assumes that *only* Jewish votes will counteract the anti-semite vote. (It also assumes that Jewish voters will vote for the Jewish candidate -- but I didn't vote for Lieberman.)

Let's say 1% of the electorate is Jewish, and 25% is anti-semitic enough to not vote for a Jewish person automatically (I really have no idea). That leaves 74% of the electorate who is neither Jewish nor anti-semitic and who will presumably vote for the candidate on his/her other strengths or weaknesses.

[SteppingRazor]

45. An excellent point n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

51. Numbers...

You made some great points. The numbers I have seen are that 2% of the US population (according to a census from 2002, I believe). From a recent ADL survey, they found about 15% of people polled were strongly anti-Semitic. A slightly higher number with people who held very anti-Israeli positions. However, there was speculation that a Jewish candidate might be seen as an agent of Israel, even by people who don't really hold virulent anti-Semitic thoughts.

[bornskeptic]

58. Actually, two bachelors have been elected President.

Buchanan was never married. Cleveland married while he was President. Also, Jefferson was widowed 18 years before his election and never remarried.

[Xithras]

95. Short and divorced? Possibly. Jewish? Not in our lifetimes.

A Jew will not be elected President of the US in our lifetimes because neither side of the political spectrum would support them. Most on the political right won't vote for anyone who isn't a "God fearing Christian", and many on the left won't vote for a Jew because it would appear to support the popular contention in the Muslim world that the US is an Israeli lackey (or the other way around, depending on who you talked to). A Jewish President could actually cause some middle eastern nations to completely stop dealing with us.

It's tragic, but the Israel/Palestine thing is hamstringing any chances of a Jewish Presidency for the forseeable future.

[TayTay]

5. Feingold's short?

I did not know that. Wow! I haven't seen him standing next to other people. Is he, like, wicked short, or just within normal shortness parameters?

Anyone got a picture of him standing next to Barbara Mikulski and John Kerry? I could extrapolate from that.

[eyesroll]

10. I don't even know how tall he is. I've met him. He's taller than I am.

I'm 5'2". Everyone's taller than I am (men, anyway).

Beyond that -- I don't think he's a towering giant, but I have no idea whether he's 5'6 or 5'11 or what.

[TayTay]

13. That's not short

That's within normal parameters. Bah! Have him stand next to tiny Sen. Mikulski and he looks like a giant.

[Captain Hilts]

22. Mitch McConnell is really short. That surprised me.

Sen. Paul Simon was very tall, that surprised me too.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. McCain rather short

but he is burly, so he looks like a tough guy.

[Captain Hilts]

34. The navy liked its jet jockies short. Alan Shepard was a l'il guy too. n

[hopein08]

74. You can try searching for him here...

http://editorial.gettyimages.com/ms_gins/source/home/home.aspx?pg=1

there are pics of him with lots of different people that might give you an idea.

[Mass]

6. When are we going to choose our candidate on the only true standard

competency.

Russ Feingold is not my first choice, but if he was the nominee, he is somebody I would gladly support. As for the three points you quote:

- short: Bush is not that tall.
- divorcee: Reagan was a divorcee.
- Jewish: They said that of catholics until Kennedy got elected.

Choose the man you think will be the best for the job and ignore all other considerations.

[Talismom]

17. I'm afraid it looks like that will happen when pigs fly! n/t

:shrug:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

98. As soon as more people vote for President than American Idol.

:sarcasm:

[displacedtexan]

7. One of the best-looking men at the DC march on Saturday...

was carrying a sign that read:

Balding Jewish Men Against Bush

(or something like that. It might have been "against war.")

[LittleClarkie]

8. You know. Until yesterday it didn't occur to me that Feingold

is a Jewish name.

And I've never seen him in person, so I don't know how short he is. But I'm 5', so I imagine I'd think he was tall enough.

And Reagan was divorced.

Weird hearing what other folks think about the Senator from my home state. They see things and emphasize things that wouldn't even occur to me.

All I can say is I don't know what the fuck I'm a-gonna do if I have to decide between Feingold and Kerry next time around. My brain hurts just thinking about it.

[EC]

37. His sister is the Rabbi here in the town I live in...

occur to me that Feingold" is a Jewish name.

[LittleClarkie]

39. Why in God's name would Democrats

or Progressives give a damn if he's Jewish?

[entanglement]

42. In an ideal world people wouldn't

care about these things, but this ain't it.

[EC]

73. Because they don't know we are the majority

and run around screaming we have to attract the other side....

[funflower]

9. Feingold can't be president because he's brilliant, decent and honest.

:cry:

[samdogmom]

11. Uhh..Dubuya's pretty short , too.

Oh, now that I think about he didn't win after all, did he?

[faithfulcitizen]

88. i thought he was around 6'? nt

[samdogmom]

91. Self delete--dup.

[samdogmom]

92. In his dreams! LOL.

Look at him in photos with others he's usually the shortest one in the group. And, I remember reading somewhere that he uses lifts in his shoes (cowboy boots). Don't know if it's true, but he has such a "Small Guy" complex that I wouldn't put it past him.

[renie408]

12. I think you would have a tough time being a supermodel

or maybe an NBA star. It might also be tough to get a job as a guard at Buckingham Palace. I think they all have to meet a height requirement. I also think Pope is out. And Miss or Mrs. America is out, even if you have a sex change. I think you are probably too short and, well, there is that whole 'man' problem.

Honestly...I dunno. I always get into trouble here if I even pretend to think that electability is a real thing. A lot of people here are so determined that electability is a myth. Mostly its the Kucinich people, but the Hillary people can get that way, too. Mostly, I think, because those two candidates are the ones popularly thought to have electability problems.

Would a short, divorced, Jewish guy have a problem getting elected? Probably. Would it be impossible? Probably not. I think a lot would depend on his intelligence, charisma and message.

[newswolf56]

15. No: look at the anti-Jewish venom unleashed by A.N.S.W.E.R.; taken...

in the context of the race-hatred reflected in New Orleans (especially the stubborn refusal of 80 percent of U.S. whites to acknowledge that racism or even class warfare had anything to do with Bush's withholding of pre-disaster and post-disaster aid from New Orleans), what we have here is proof this nation is just as viciously bigoted against Jews and blacks now as it was 50 or even 100 years ago. It is merely more close-mouthed -- more hypocritical -- about its bigotry.

As to divorce, I believe President Clinton's record of pre-presidential philandery discounts the notion a divorced person would automatically be excluded from the presidency.

As to stature, I simply don't know. I have seen market-research data suggesting that Americans (who despite their chronic obesity espouse essentially the same physical standards of Aryan perfection as the Nazis) reflexively scorn people of smaller (or less than "perfect") stature. But I have also seen data suggesting that -- given the offsetting advantage of beauty or handsomeness -- smallness is something that can be overcome. (Sorry I can't provide links to this data; I saw these studies more than 20 years ago and don't now even remember the sources beyond the fact they were major Madison Avenue agencies.)

[eyesroll]

30. ANSWER is anti-Jewish? I assumed they were anti-Israel

(or just pro-Palestinian, depending on who you ask). Totally different things, especially to most younger, secular Jews who don't give a rip about Israel beyond not wanting its citizens bombed into oblivion.

[newswolf56]

47. A.N.S.W.E.R. supports Jihadists who demand the extermination...

of not just Israelis but all Jews. If that is not anti-Jewish, nothing is. Here is an informative link from the Anti-Defamation League:

http://www.adl.org/main_israel/anti-israel-protests_2005.htm

Note also this from the ADL's periodic survey of U.S. anti-Semitism: "Negative attitudes about Israel and concerns that American Jews have too much influence over U.S Middle East policy are key areas of concern for those who fall in the most anti-Semitic category." A.N.S.W.E.R. -- (though not specifically named in the survey) undoubtedly panders to such notions -- just as the material sourced by the foregoing link demonstrates.

The full ADL report on anti-Semitism in America is available here:

http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/Anti_Semitic_Attitudes_files/frame.htm

[ET Awful]

16. Feingold, I thought you were talking about Lieberman :)

:evilgrin:

[damntexdem]

18. Stuff the racism! Don't bow to the social rightwing! Go for the best!

Is Russ Feingold that? Could he be that despite the Roberts vote? Answer those questions, and let the DINOs stew without stirring their pot.

[eyesroll]

32. Quick correction -- it's not racism.

Judaism is not a race.

BTW: I think 95% of the electorate doesn't give a rip about the Roberts vote, and most of the rest won't remember it too much in '08. It's mostly just us.

[LoZoccolo]

20. As a Sicilian-American...

...I don't think I could hold public office in a lot of places outside of heavily Italian areas due to fears of organized crime and/or corruption, and have been resigned to this for some time. But then again, you could make the argument that if we all hestitate it's guaranteed to never happen.

[satireV]

21. She can't be president because she is a woman, black, and single.

Funny...that is exactly what a fellow liberal told me last at a dinner party concerning Condoleeza Rice.

Can a woman get elected these days?
Can a person who is single?
Can a black?

I don't know about you, but I don't want a man or woman in the White House who won't have sex for 4 - 8 years by being single.

[unblock]

23. ronald reagan was divorced. few knew or cared because msm protected him

if a divorced democrat runs for president, you can bet your bottom dollar that the media would have a field day with family issues, commitment issues, moral issues, etc., and it would all be a huge negative for the democrat.

but ronald reagan sailed through eight years with most of the public not even knowing that he was divorced, and even if they did, they wouldn't think it was an issue.

why? well, you see, we've got a "liberal media", of course....

[Mass]

25. Kerry is divorced. I dont remember that having been an issue.

[eyesroll]

29. Divorced but remarried. Feingold is divorced and single.

Feingold is also twice divorced, BTW, whereas it was only once for Kerry (and Reagan, for that matter).

[unblock]

31. actually, it was brought up as an issue

although stories that attacked him for being divorced seemed to degenerate into stories attacking his second wife for some reason, and the latter stories got more traction.

[karynnj]

33. To be fair, Kerry's divorce was not an issue with the MSM

The fact that his ex-wife said more positive things about him than some people's current wives would say, her twin brother was high in Kerry's campaign, and his 2 very wonderful daughters obviously had a close relationship with their dad might be the reason.

[unblock]

43. they did try, it's just that they got more traction with ...

... the anti-teresa crap. not to mention the swift boat crap.

[karynnj]

46. I really thing the anti Teresa stuff was pathetic

especially when Karen Hughes went after her after she apologized for saying that Laura hadn't worked since her youth. (in the context of how were they different, Teresa's point was that much of who she is is what she does via the Heinz foundation. She actually had made a very sweet comment about Laura as well - then she apologized for not remembering Laura was a teacher/libraian in her twenties.) Hughes then insisted that in Teresa's apology she didn't credit Laura with the hard work of being a stay home mom. (Although, Teresa was too - with better results)

[FrenchieCat]

24. I don't know if any of those qualities as you describe them

would automatically void someone from winning--Carter was short...so was truman....and I am sure that there are others that come to mind.

FDR was in a Wheelchair

Kennedy was a Catholic...when that was the same as what Jewish could be looked upon in our present day.

Eisenhower had no hair.

Reagan was once divorced.

Bush was a stoopid drunk.

and Clinton was a womanizer.

The problem may be the Fiengold's got three issues to deal with. So the piling on of "out of the norm" qualities for a President might be more than the public will be willing to accept. When adding the fact that Feingold is a senator who has never found a defense bill that he liked....Feingold might have more concerns than voters are willing to risk in what might be the last chance we have in saving this messed up country.

But who knows...maybe folks are not as superficial as that. On second thought...yes they are. :shrug:

[WI_DEM]

53. also, but never pointed out, Nancy R was 3 months pregnent when

she and Reagan got married. That shouldn't count, but the Christian Right doesn't point that out.

[FrenchieCat]

54. Plus, they don't point out that Arnie's had a facelift either....

although apparent, but had a heart attack concerning Boxtox questions for a certain leading Democratic nominee.
So we can see that nothing will stop them.....no matter what!

Wonder what would happen if Hillary went under the knife?
Seems like since Ms. Dole did it.....anyone should be able to.

[fudge stripe cookays]

26. I'd vote for him in a second.

Wish he was MY senator. Instead I have two lobotomized Bushbots.

If I get one more fucking form letter from Kay Bailey Helmethead, I'm gonna lose it. THAT WOMAN DOES NOT REPRESENT ME!!!!!!

FSC

[Fenris]

48. She sent me a letter too! I made use of it.

;)

[fudge stripe cookays]

61. Ah...you have a cat too? n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. Certainly none of these things make him unelectable.

But each of them probably hurts him a little bit.

[rurallib]

35. Amazing that intelligence isn't in the criteria

After we have elected the stupidest son-of-a-bitch in America twice, you'd think intelligence would get a mention.

[serryjw]

44. You also have a stupid electorate

I would work my arse off for a true liberal like Feingold BUT like DK this is a uphill battle. 2 divorces with relatively short marriages (9 & 14 years) would be a problem, a SINGLE President and Jewish, and VERY liberal. He is my dream candidate next to Boxer and DK.....BUT it will never happen in this climate

[entanglement]

40. The short and divorced might work against him

Jewish: Don't think it would work against him, there are a dozen Jewish Senators (and many more in the House)

[mtnsnake]

41. What about a short woman? You know, like

Hillary?

:evilgrin:

[ClassWarrior]

49. I was told in school that anyone can be President, and I'm sticking to it.

The only barriers are in people's minds. And as we already know, we have plenty of work to do in that area.

Never Give Up, eyes.

[LittleClarkie]

50. He can't be president because he's short, an idiot and a former addict

Didn't stop Dubya somehow. Anybody can be president. Even those unsuitable to be president.

[Hippo_Tron]

76. Hey kids, make sure to get a DWI or two, you can still be President

[rniel]

52. A president has to be tall and have short choppy names

George Bush - last name is only 4 letters and 2 syllables for his whole name

Kuchinich - damn that's 9 letters ain't gonna work

Clinton - only 7 that's about the max, it's pushing it. (plus his first name Bill has only 4 letters so that helps even it out)

Carter - see only 6

Reagan - only 6 once again

Feingold - that's 8 letters

Gore - THAT'S 4 FREAKING LETTERS GUYS, IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT HE'S GOT A GOOD CHANCE. I think he's 6 feet tall or more isn't he?? and his whole name Al Gore is ONLY 2 SYLLABLES!!! AND 6 LETTERS FOR HIS WHOLE NAME!!

[FrenchieCat]

55. I will add, since you didn't....

CLARK - that's 5 letters / WES - that's 3

Height - 5'10...that short but gets extra inches for the extra set of balls, and for winning a war.

[rniel]

56. True

I forgot about him.

[bluedawg12]

57. It's all in how you package him.

Make him look presidential.

Put him on a stage with the right props, flags, and lighting, give him clever lines, heroic photographs in heroic poses.

Give him soaring rhetoric.

Hell, it worked for Hitler and the likes of Lennie Rifenstahl who made that pud look like a leader.

KKKarlRove turned a blatherer into a canned speech artist and the media called it "message discipline."

But, if you want an honest man or woman to be elected by the sheer force of their character and integrity then it is hard for any candidate. Face it, we live in a media age and we want pretty faces, short sentences with consonance, and pomp and circumstances.

But, I think anyone can elected with smart stage management.

I don't know enough about Sen. Feingold to speak of him specifically.

[nvliberal]

60. He can't get elected

because he's considered too far to the left to be electable.

His looks, religion, or marital status are secondary, although being a two-time loser is a considerable liability.

[ClassWarrior]

62. Do yourself a favor and read "Don't Think of an Elephant."

Lakoff says, and rightly so, that a candidate can ONLY win by appealing to the base - in our case by being proudly left. If you don't appeal to someone, you appeal to no one.

NGU.

[bluedawg12]

72. Great book, but also talks about framing the message

Would someone who looks like Richard Nixon with the words of JFK win today? nope.

The media is the message.

People are busy with their lives, dislike poltics, and hear 30 second-or less- sound bites, or worse yet, attack ads.

[eyesroll]

67. I take exception to the characterization of "two-time loser"

I am divorced (once) and do not consider myself a loser because of it -- nor do I consider my ex to be one, for that matter.

And I know the more recent ex-Mrs. Feingold thinks the world of her former husband, and would not characterize him as a loser, either.

[applegrove]

63. Nobody cares about that stuff. If a real human being takes the podium -

we will all be in love.

[Doctor_J]

64. Crass, bigoted, and...true

sorry to say.

[Clarkie1]

65. Clark is short and 1/2 jewish. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

66. Well that's it for him then

:D

[windbreeze]

69. Clark's gotta be

at least 5'10...I am 5'4 and I was looking up at him, when standing right next to him...as for the half jewish part...who cares?
windbreeze

[zulchzulu]

81. Clark is about 5'9". I know. I;ve stood next to him

That's an average height.

[faithfulcitizen]

89. It's not the ethnicity people care about, it's the religion. Clark is &

always has been Christian. And he's 5'10'', which is average. Tho' he does slouch a bit. ;)

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

70. They said it couldn't be done...

but they was wrong.

They said we couldn't have a Catholic pres, but we had President Kennedy.

They said all kinds of other things down through history that were wrong.

Seems a rather irrelevant statement on the person's part.

How about a short or tall Jewish, divorced woman for Pres?

How about a transgendered, B'Hai, extremely thin, never married, tall man or woman?

[Cocoa]

71. Lieberman is shorter and Jewisher

and he won VP. :shrug:

[JaneQPublic]

75. And divorced, too. The DLC sure loved him (n/t)

[Hawkowl]

83. ?

Lieberman is our Vice President? What happened to Cheney? Sheesh.

[LiberalFighter]

79. Feingold won't win because he is a Senator!

[ClassWarrior]

84. How many more stereotypes can we trot out here?

NGU.

[zulchzulu]

82. Lots of Repugs have crossed over to vote for Russ in WI

They may be "pro-life" and have other Repug issues that they stand for, but they know Russ speaks his mind openly and is willing to say he doesn't have an answer on an issue...which is extremely rare.

People like a straight shooter even if he may be a Democrat.

[ComerPerro]

85. Bush is short. He is also a drug abuser, an alcoholic, and a pathological

liar

[newportdadde]

93. Bush is almost 6 foot, that is NOT short.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-06-23-bush-kerry-cover_x.htm

Speaking as a 5'7'' man I would love to be that short. Your other points though I can't argue with.

[meow2u3]

87. Better a president short in stature

than one short in the brains department.

[newportdadde]

94. Being short is a disadvantage as a man.

I say this as a 5' 7'' man. If I walk around the corporation I work out right now I would only see one male manager who was near my height, maybe 4 or 5 at 5' 10'' ish, the rest are easily over 6'. Also, upper level managers tend to be 6' +.

The presence of height does make a difference and I would believe the same would play out in a presidential race. Also its often a pain in the ass for the women your with to find good shoes :)

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

99. Funny question you ask.

In reality, you can definitely be anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic. One is a stance you take based on real world politics and facts, the other is purely hateful opinion. You can most definitely be pro-Palestinian without being an anti-Semite.

Now, you ask if you can do so without being LABELED an anti-Semite. The answer to that is definitely not. Anything approaching criticism of Israeli policy is anti-Semitic in the books of many people.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

97. He's probably right.

Not in a legal sort of way, but do you see a voting populace that proved themselves bigoted by passing anti-gay marriage resolutions by overwhelming margins voting for a short, divorced Jew?