Reality based thinking: Roe/Wade will be overturned or largely diminished

[keopeli]

Suggesting Dems have some sort of power to prevent this inevitability is fantasy. SC nominees are made by Bush the Lesser, who will be King for over 3 more years. Even beyond that, the court has already changed. It is safe to assume that Bush the Lesser's nominees will all be anti-abortionists. O'Conner was the swing vote. The dye is cast.

Further, when Reid recommends someone to Bush the Lesser, he knows the person must be Anti-Choice. If the Filibuster threat held any sway at all, it was to force Bush the Lesser to appease the Dems by consulting Reid. It's even possible that Reid planted a 'bomb' when he recommended his WH Counsel.

We must seriously consider how to save the most important facets of Roe v. Wade, such as allowing doctors to perform aboritions in the first trimester and criminalizing the rest. I don't agree with this, and I hope it will be overturned itself someday, but we are living in a divided country with a conservative court that is with us for at least 20 years.

Just my opinion.

Keo

[David Briggs]

1. State Legislatures

If RvW is overturned, state legislatures will control the question of whether abortion is criminalized. Prepare to conduct the struggle there.

[AndyTiedye]

2. When Roe is Overturned, Congress Will Enact a Nationwide Ban on Abortion

Later, it will be amended to ban the Pill and all other effective forms of birth control.

[Erika]

3. And a bill will be passd against masturbation

Those cells have been murdered. Masturbation becomes a Capitol crime.
Thirty years or execution. Just like in the 14th century.

[junkiebrewster]

13. question...

Overturning R v. W would throw the issue back to state courts. How, then, could Congress justify a ban?

[Autonomy]

18. They would have to pass a consitutional amendment

which will never happen.

[tritsofme]

19. Such a law would probably be overturned by the anti-Roe Court

Since abortion within states has no effect on interstate commerce.

That would probably be a great basis in their overturning of Roe.

It would require a constitutional amendment to either ban or ensure abortion rights on the federal level.

[AndyTiedye]

33. That Depends on What Grounds The Court Uses to Overturn Roe

The Reagan/Bush appointees all think a fetus is a person. If they make that into a ruling, we're screwed.

[formernaderite]

27. It would be struck down...

on the same basis that Roe V wade is turned over...its a states rights issue.

[bluestateguy]

4. I dare them to try and enforce such laws

I also think they will owe us an explanation as to how those laws will be enforced. I'd be really interested to hear it.

Also worry about so called "exceptions" for cases of say, rape or incest. Does the rape have to be reported to the police? What if they can't find the rapist? If if the rapist is found not guilty months later after the abortion was performed? What if the woman was just making it all up so she could get a legal abortion?

[Erika]

6. Agreed, and I live in the reddest state in the nation

They are not for forcing children birth's against the mother's will.

[firefox]

5. People are overwhelmingly pro-choice

There will be a Constitutional Amendment to end the intrepretation of the Constitution as an issue and it will spell out a woman right to chose. Do you think that in 3
30 years when there are 10 billion people on the planet that abortion will be illegal. Wouldn't you think some countries are thinking of instances where abortion is mandatory? (Here is link to population clock- http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop )

Sixty to seventy percent of American adults are pro-choice. They will not be a silent majority if Roe v Wade is overturned.

[Obiepup]

7. I don't see a CA specifially enshrining Roe v Wade

Sorry. It may pass Congress and the Pres but too many red states.


Besides it may be watered down to get votes in red state legislatures. Not good.

[Erika]

8. If a RW Court tries to outlaw abortions, hell will be paid

No way are Americans going to allow radical conservatives to enforce an abortion ban on American females.

[Obiepup]

9. So what will happen?

What recourse will we have?

I fear a constitutional amendment specifically spelling out reproductive rights won't pass.

[Erika]

10. The power of the people will speak - and loudly

Our state passed a no abortion bill and was shortly followed by a massive demonstration at the Capitol building. The governor vetoed the bill. The government does not belong in women's rights. This was at a red state.

[Tesha]

11. What will they do? Use harsh langauge?

> If a RW Court tries to outlaw abortions, hell will be paid.
> No way are Americans going to allow radical conservatives to
> enforce an abortion ban on American females.

What will they do? Use harsh langauge?

Hardly anybody in America is willing to get up off their asses
for *ANY* political cause; that's why we now have the government
we deserve.

Tesha

[AndyTiedye]

12. We Deserve Better! WE GOT ROBBED!

More people got "off their asses" last year than ever before.
It wasn't enough. It can never be enough as long as THEY count the votes.

We didn't deserve to be robbed.


Fixing the votes around the Party

[Tesha]

16. Merely voting is insufficient.

> More people got "off their asses" last year than ever before.

I would have though that 2000, 2002, and 2004 would have proven that
merely voting (which I assume is what you're referring to as people
"getting off their asses") is insufficient. It's going to take a lot
more than that to restore democracy in this country.

Tesha

[AndyTiedye]

17. Voting, Protesting, Writing Letters, Campaigning

Kerry got more votes than any other Democrat, ever.
He raised more money too.

We have taken to the streets as well,
with the biggest demonstrations since the Vietnam war.

We also had thousands of volunteers try to monitor the election,
but they were largely prevented from doing so.

We haven't exactly been sitting on our asses.

[Tesha]

23. So why isn't Kerry the President?

Why don't we hold the Senate?

Or the Congress?

Or the Supreme Court?

Or the media?

Or most of the state houses?

Or governor's chairs?

Or dogcatchers' jobs?

Tesha

[Clark2008]

24. Depends on where you live.

Unfortunately, in my state, 51 percent are against choice, according to the latest poll.

If R v. W is overturned, it goes back to the states; therefore, you'll have many red states banning the practicing, forcing women in those states to either move if they want choice or cough up a bunch of cash (the probably don't have since the No. 1 factor in choosing to have an abortion is lack of finances) to go to the nearest blue or purple state to have one: proving, once again, that many in the so-called red states vote against their pocketbooks.

[elsiesummers]

14. Abortion will be legal in some states, illegal in others...

The Future.

I tend to agree that the real focus will end up, by default, be on keeping as many options available as possible in a few states. I also think laws will be vastly different from state to state, with many quirky regulations. The few states that remain fully pro-choice will become known as the abortion states, where everyone travels to have their abortions. Hotels and aftercare centers will spring up around a very small number (ten or less) abortion clinics in the nation that provide 90+% of the abortions for American women.

One thing I'm curious about is whether abortions will become illegal across state lines - example - possible future criminal prosecution of a young woman who travels from Georgia to New York to have an abortion if she returns to her residence in Georgia. Will young women actually be prevented from travelling if known to be pregnant - perhaps even state visas and border patrol in the most conservative states and "protective custody". I think anything is possible when you realize what zealots these pro-lifers are and the level of power they have already acquired. Will young women be smuggled across state lines? Will private funding fill the gap for the poorest in their need to travel hundreds of miles to get an abortion?

I think the whole situation will become far more hideous than we can imagine as the legal implications of the overturn of Roe v. Wade plays out to the fullest extent.

Could also bring back much of the red state/blue state seccession talk that we briefly saw after the last two Presidential elections.

We have no reason to think that the implications are not vast and far reaching. The media: The messier, more heated and more active this issue becomes, the more the press will enjoy covering the worst aspects of the pro-choice v pro-life events and outcomes. War and international events will no longer be a press focus (we will have withdrawn or massively reduced troops in most hot spots) and the abortion issue will move front and center in the media, because something incendiary will have to fill the void. Last time they were left with nothing to cover (life was good, money not a worry and we were at peace with the world) they went crazy over Monica. Something will have to fill the void left by never ending war ending - and barring another Katrina size natural disaster, the grit of abortion wars will come front and center.

[AndyTiedye]

20. Not Necessarily

The Supreme Court could issue a decision that not only reversed Roe v. Wade, but actually banned abortion.
They will be under considerable pressure to do just that.

Congress could also enact such a ban. Reproductive freedom has clear majority support in the US, but not in Congress. Even our Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid is a likely vote in favor of such a ban, and he would almost certainly try to block a filibuster. A ban would sail through the house, of course.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

21. And the wealthier would be able to fly to Europe or elsewhere

and the poor would be left to bear more babies in poverty. Or hey, that whole Magdalene laundry thing was a pretty good gig - why not force the poor pregnant females into some kind of bonded servitude and whisk their babies off to who knows where?

[tritsofme]

22. Its very unlikely a court that overturned Roe would pass any judgement

on abortion itself.

It would likely fall back to the states.

That Court would probably overturn any federal law regarding abortion on the same grounds it overturned Roe. A constitutional amendment would be needed for any action by Congress in a post-Roe environment.

[bowens43]

25. The supreme court could NOT do that.

I don't believe that congress has that authority either. It would become a state issue.

[AndyTiedye]

31. The Supreme Court Can do Pretty Much Whatever It Wants

[Dangerously Amused]

15. ...

To msg # 5: Abortion is already mandatory and forced in China under common circumstances. That is why Bush is withholding certain financial aid. Can Google it, it's pretty scary.


As for me, I am less worried about Robert's abortion views than Miers'. Reason being, a man knows that the issue will never, ever affect him personally. By which I mean he will never be in the situation to have to choose. To fill that gap in the logic supporting his position, there will always be women around him from whom he draws insight and formulates his opinion. And there is no man - not a one, I say! - who is so isolated that abortion has not visited at least one loved and/or respected female in his circle, be it wife, daughter, sister, ex-girlfriend, whatever. Or even a male influence... a brother or best friend whose girlfriend got pregnant and what the hell, we certainly can't tarnish the right-eous "family values" image with a bastard child. Therefore, even if it tolerance for choice is not something he and those in his world admit or discuss openly, it is still something they (most of them) must privately acknowledge and respect at least to a degree.

BTW, wouldn't you just love to know how many male GOP pro-life shills have secretly fathered aborted fetuses? Spread the statistics around, and it covers a pretty good pack of them. Maybe that is why Scalia endeavored to uphold RVW when it got down to brass tacks. Maybe he didn't want any skeletons coming out of his closet to call him a hypocrite. Same with Bush. His then-girlfriend Robin Lowman aborted their child in the early 70s, I believe in '71. Pappy Bush's campaign manager arranged the procedure in a Houston hospital, and that was even back when abortion was completely illegal in Texas. Wonder why the MSM never did pick up that story and run with it...?

EH-nee-way...on the other hand, a woman who claims the abortion issue as her own and still lines up anti-choice has NO hidden agenda. There is not even a tiny chance that she will hold out one opinion publicly to maintain party support, and then rationalize another way to support choice down the road so that no potentially career-damaging skeletons emerge from her closet. Nope, no way. You better believe THAT woman is on a crusade!

[mrcheerful]

26. What really gets me about this is................

it will not stop abortions for the rich, they will just go over seas for them. Also, regardless what ''we the people'' want, those in power decide whats safe for us and our heath even if it kills us. Look at some of the laws enacted in the last 40 years under the disguise of making life safer and better for us dumb voters.

[formernaderite]

28. I think this would be a good thing...

it would send the issue back to the states. Some states would clearly ban it...most would not. Those banning it would have to answer to their voters, who would likely uphold it or overturn it. I could see an amendment to the constitution grow out of this. It would put the issue to rest once and for all. I am one of those who thinks Roe v Wade was a weak decision. An amendment would easily have support of 2/3 of the states.

[MadHound]

29. LOL, abortion isn't going to be repealed any more than

Guns are going to be grabbed.

They call these wedge issues for a good reason, they herd the populace into either one corner or another. This is a favorite tactic of the ruling elite, divide and conquer, and they have been doing so forever. Social issues, especially when they're artificially inflated like both gun control and abortion are, serve to sway a group of people into the camp of the haves, in complete defiance of voting for their own best economic and social interests.

In the past forty years there has never been two issues that have managed to sway a sizeable portion of the voting public into voting against their own self interests than abortion and gun control. I've known several very liberal people who vote consistently for Republicans all due to the false perception that to due otherwise will result in their guns being seized. Same with abortion.

These two issues are entirely to valuable to the ruling elite to abandon them now. Instead, the pot on each issue will continue to simmer for years and years, until they lose their effectiveness. But don't expect abortion to repealed anytime soon. It is too much of a good tool in the hands of the ruling elite, and they won't drop it willingly.

[CTyankee]

32. I'd like to think that you are right

however, I also have learned not to underestimate tyranny's zealotry, even in defiance of their own rationality and best interests. And these guys have the closest thing to absolute power now than they ever had. There is a good chance they will go over the top.

We may not be too far from what happened in Rumania with Ceacescu, when his government, in its pro-natalist zeal, banned abortions and forced women factory workers to submit to physical exams (how they would find out that they were using contraceptives I don't know). The Nazis had banned abortions for Aryan women (previously legal in the Weimar Republic) and forced abortions on "undesirables." Of course, when the revolution came,Ceacescu and his wife were lined up against a wall and shot and after a world war we got rid of the Nazis.

Maybe that's what it takes here. I'm beginning to wonder...

[Coexist]

30. Please read or rent: Cider House Rules - a very important book

- and the movie wasn't THAT bad either. Also - Vera Drake was a beautiful look at how your income directly affected how you disposed of an unwanted pregnancy before they were legal.

I have made my teenagers watch both of these, and convinced my daughter to read the book (Cider House Rules). She is in the middle of it now.

[proud patriot]

34. Has Anyone Seen My Constitutional Rights ?

been looking for them :grr:

[zulchzulu]

35. This would be politically a disaster for the Repugs

Imagine them not being able to sell the "pro-life" label on candidates...suddenly people would start really looking at other issues...like how screwed they are getting by voting for one issue only.

I seriously doubt the RNC really wants to have Roe v. Wade overturned. Without the theocrats, they'd have a large section of their base split off.