Look, I know it's been a shitty 5 years & the "Culture of Corruption"

[texpatriot2004]

is deeply embedded now but I am sick of people saying that these criminals won't be punished. I don't know if he'll go to jail or not...as someone else posted he has to be convicted first; what I do know is that I MUST BELIEVE that things can change. I MUST BELIEVE that good can overcome evil. I MUST BELIEVE that these criminals are NOT ABOVE THE LAW. I MUST BELIEVE that this "Culture of Corruption" has come to an end. IF I DO NOT BELIEVE IT, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AND IF NOTHING CHANGES, THEN NOTHING CHANGES. WE MUST ALL GET OVER THIS ERA THAT WE HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO. WE MUST BELIEVE THAT THE LAW IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL PREVAIL. For the first time in five years things are happening, positive things for us...and nobody believes that it matters, that anything will change. I TELL YOU THAT IS DANGEROUS AND DEFEATIST. I can't change anyone else, but I don't intend to suffer under this criminal government for the rest of my born days. I mean no offense to anyone. I am just so sick of the negative, powerless, hopeless, despairing crap when obviously some things are changing. Believe me when I say "change gonna come." It's coming now if only we will believe in it. I know it's hard, we've been kicked badly since 2000 and we all know corruption didn't just begin in 2000 but truly we have to believe first.

[jobycom]

1. When the Roman Empire fell, the Dark Ages lasted a thousand years!

We're DOOMMEEED!!! All is lost.

Nah, just kidding, I liked your rant! Way to go!

[texpatriot2004]

3. LOL. Thanks. I know that there are good people who believe

and who want to believe right now. I am not buying that doom and gloom rubbish either.

[Carla in Ca]

29. Hi, texpatriot2004

Now, this is a topic I can relate to. I appreciate that you read and posted on my tribute to Clinton. Isn't the country divided enough? I don't want DU to get that way. Great post, friend!:hi:

[firefox]

7. You do realize some people really are doomed don't you?

People working in competition with China is a type of doom. There is the real doom people face as poverty destroys their relationships. There are people that will actually die tomorrow from lack of health care. The environment has its own doom with evidence seen in two category 5 hurricanes this year. The pollution of the country is only going to become more evident as people live in the filth longer and the filth becomes worse. We may well be $10 trillion in debt when * goes and one dollar in four of revenue is needed just for interest, not that we can pay it. How long will it take to repeal the new and improved version of the Patriot Act whose main job is to suppress dissent and won't that be more doom?

The idea that the next generation of children will have a higher standard of living than the last is totally doomed. Sure the trains will run on time and there will be HDTV with 400 channels for everyone. Kids will still go to school and maybe some day they will not lug a sack of books around. Invention will always be neat to see, but that does not mean life will be better.

I agree with Chomsky that socialism will one day rule and the powerful by wealth will be beaten back. But in the meantime plenty of Iraqis have been doomed to death and more will follow and they count too.

It could be within the next two years that the nuclear bombs are unleashed in both Iran and North Korea in a display of ruthlessness to show that widespread torture was not our limit.

There is plenty of doom to go around. It is not like the real powers that dictate legislation are going to give up their love of power and money. The fascists are still winning even if the recruits for opposition grow. The Senate will be defining unlawful combatant in their new Patriot Act and it will make it easier to get rid of anyone that gets in the fascist way.

They are still advancing and some people are going to be doomed to poverty, sickness, pain, and death. Nobody got fired for 9/11. One person gets three years in jail for torture. Nobody went to jail over two stolen elections.

Well, you get my drift. I just wonder if we will push the fascists back enough that I might have some cannabis soup in peace before I die.

[jobycom]

19. Well said, but there always is doom

History makes us think our nation has moved in a steady progress to a brighter future, and that false history makes our current decline seem out of place.

Our nation has always caused massive suffering, along with the tremendous good we have done. The Native Americans did not die by accident. Slaves were not just owned by southern derelicts (northerners owned slaves, they just couldn't keep them in the North). Blacks weren't lynced by individual rogues.

Industry and ways of life have disappeared before. Cars put buggie makers under. Computers have cost many Americans jobs. Jobs have been ecported before.

What always saves us is our democracy. It means that when things get too bad, people vote their pocketbooks and things start to recover. FDR did it. Clinton did it.

Bad people have always started wars, and used contemporary technology for horrible slaughter.

All of what you say is true, and it is all what we should never forget. But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that this has always been the case, and not just for America, and that we will recover as best we can. We were told under Reagan that it was hopeless, the the national debt would mean we would collapse, and that the children would not do as well as the last generation. Thanks to Clinton, we did.

Things were no worse under Reagan than now. I know it seems it, because our leader is a little more stupid. But Reagan had more arrests and convictions in his administration than any other president. People died from stupidity under his reign, as well. Things were no less bad under him. Hundreds of thousands died in other countries because of his evil ideology. But Clinton came in, and things got better.

They'll get better again. Different--just the Gulf Coast as it rebuilds, different--but better.

Those who survived Reagan saw it happen before. (That's also the reason I pummel anyone who trashes Clinton. He may not have been the purist liberal we always wanted. But he was beautiful next to Reagan. He saved our nation every bit as much as FDR did.)

[Gnostic]

28. If the number one priority of government...

...is the "protection" of it's citizens, why the hell is'nt there STILL no access to basic health care in this rotten country for the working poor???

Does that make us about the only first world industrialized nation left on earth that does'nt?

And I'm with ya on the cannibis soup in peace from fascists comment. :P :P

[driver8]

2. Has it only been five years?? Damn...it feels like so much longer.

I like your post and I agree. These crooks can't continue forever...eventually their bullshit is going to catch up with them.

I have a feeling a real shitstorm is just starting for these criminals.

[Toots]

18. It has been since before JFK was assassinated

and they still haven't brought to justice those involved in that. I am sorry but history shows a lot of the time they get away with it. I suspect this is also one of those times. They control all the cards and the deck is well marked. My Paw used to say to me "wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets full the quickest".

[mestup]

4. I think you're speaking for the more-than-half-of- voters...

...who no longer vote!

This faux two party system has left no-longer-voting people feeling exactly what you're describing. They feel defeated. "Why bother voting? It's just more of the same: us v. them."

We have to try to spread hope to the people whose votes could make a change.

[texpatriot2004]

5. Yes we do need to reach them with a message of hope. n/t

[marions ghost]

25. agreed

the people we need to try to reach are not so much the 'swing voters' but the NON voters. Generally they would tend to vote our way if they thought it could make a real difference. Of course with our current voting system...it's even harder to convince them to vote.

[leanin_green]

6. I hope you have some long fingernails.

Look, I'm also one of those who is waiting for someone to come along and knock all these bastards around, too. But after seeing what happened in '04 and how easily Americans were manipulated(at least that's what I think I saw)it's so hard to tell what is really happening anymore. I just have to believe the American people aren't this stupid! But if you look at how the education system has systematically been dismantled over the years, maybe they are. All I can say is that I'm holding onto the cliff with only one hand now. They'd better hurry, I don't know how long I can hold on.

[texpatriot2004]

9. I understand what you are saying. I am hanging on too. I also

saw the manipulation. It's easy to do when the press is in your pocket and the money is rolling in. There was no "election" in 2004 IMHO. I see it like the great deceiver is deceiving many right now and for the last 5 years as well but I tell ya, people, many people feel the same way that I do and you do I think the tide is changing. I think there might just be something, if I only had the words for it, something big, something otherworldly, an opportunity for us, all of us, to change the course of our history right now...like altering our karma if you will. I don't know. I could be wrong. It's just something that John F. Kennedy said back in 1961 I think it was about not buying into this idea that we are doomed, he called it "dangerous and defeatist" and said something like we are smarter, we can do better. So, I know what you mean about hanging on. I am hanging on too. Lots of people are I think. You made it through, you survived the worst of it and so did I, we all did. We survived the high crime of the "High Court" in 2000 and the stolen presidency in 2004 and all the evil and darkness between then and now. So hang on my friend, change gonna come, it's on the way. Don't give up, in the words of my DU friend ClassWarrior...NGU!

[EST]

22. Yes, American people really are that stupid.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

8. I don't wish to suffer...

...under this criminal government for the rest of my born days either. And you're right that defeatism is dangerous to our cause, but denial is too. How does one find balance between these two extremes. Some DUers are clearly under the impression that election fraud issues are going to be addressed and free and fair elections will be restored by the '06 mid terms. This is denial. Democratic leadership (with a few exceptions) isn't really pressing the matter and we know Republifascists certainly aren't going to fix it. So where does that leave us? We've had two consecutive stolen presidential elections. Just think about the magnitude of that crime---it's staggering. Is it realistic to think these people can be displaced working within the system (legal or political)?

[texpatriot2004]

10. How does one find balance between the extremes of denial and

defeatism? Good question. I'd advocate shooting for the middle as extremes are rarely the place to be. It is a tough question but it seems to me when you say denial, the way you have used it in your post anyway denial is something similar to hope - as if to hope people are in denial. Perhaps I have misunderstood you? Perhaps I am tired and not thinking as clearly as I can. Is it denial that the 2006 elections will be fair? Well, I think it's not likely that the issues will be resolved by then. Although, there is a substantial grassroots movement to change what is wrong with our electoral process so I am not convinced it's impossible. Difficult - yes. Unlikely to be remedied - probably. You are certainly right about the two stolen elections in a row and the magnitude of that crime is mindblowing, especially in America. I think we have been knocked around so much in these past 5 years that it's hard to imagine being free from this regime. I even think that there is a mindset - again a dangerous one - that would have us believe in the end times talk. Rubbish. My God is not of fear, destruction, insanity, war and evil doing; oh no, that is of mankind being deceived by the great deceiver. I will stop there lest my politics gets into religion which I don't like to mix.

Your other question is also a good one:
Is it realistic to think these people can be displaced working within the system (legal or political)? Is it realistic? I don't know but I know it is IMPERATIVE! What we choose to believe creates the world we live in. What we think about we bring about. I personally refuse to believe that these criminals are above the law; that there is nothing we can do to stop them, nothing we can do to them - bullshit. This is America. We the people have a choice. We may not like our options but we have a choice. I think the tide is turning and the law will prevail just as good will triumph.

Peace to you my friend.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

17. Thanks for the thoughtful...

...response, and you're absolutely right not to give up hope. When we give up hope we lose. Displacing this criminal regime will be a process. We must keep trying until we find something that works.
Thanks again.

[texpatriot2004]

23. And thank you for your thought provoking post. I really did have

to stop and think about it which is good. We will find a way. Where there is a will there is a way. First, we will find the political will (I think we are in the process of that now)...and then we will find the way.

[ladylibertee]

11. Just breathe ! It will all work out.Just make sure you vote left.

[cassiepriam]

12. Friend, it is called facing reality. But you keep on hoping, we need you.

[OneGrassRoot]

13. I'm with you, Texpatriot............

thanks for the encouragement to keep believing.....:hug:

[texpatriot2004]

20. Thanks, I needed that.

:hug:

[sendero]

14. I agree...

... I don't dare hope for true and complete justice, but there will be justice. Some of these guys are going to jail. And virtually every single one of them will live to see themselves as reviled by the vast majority of Americans for what they have done.

I have a good friend who basically, every time I point how that this administration is finally crumbling to the ground, assures me that nothing will ever change, that Americans are too stupid and easily manipulated. There are folks here who think that there will be some staged event, that martial law will be declared nationally, that we'll never get Bush** out of the white house.

I'm definitely a skeptic, but I cannot be that cynical or defeatist. The American people are lazy and preoccupied, but they are coming around. If Bush** tried to pull a coup, his own military would tell him to fuck off.

The tipping point has already been passed. There is no way Mr. Bush** will ever have any real credibility again. We just have to limit the damage his lame duck term can produce, and look towards a better day.

[texpatriot2004]

21. Yeah, you know lately I talk to people who feel the same way I do

about that lying lunatic * and his evil regime, as we discuss the current events that are actually happening even they say what you described above, "nobody will go to jail, they'll get away with it, nothing will change, blah blah blah, yada yada yada."

You are absolutely right about the damage to *'s credibility which I think will only get worse as more unfolds.

Thanks for your response.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Some people just LIKE to feel victimized and defeated

They enjoy the feeling. Far too many of this variety of loser on DU.

If they're not "losing to Rove," then they aren't happy, and anytime anything good happens, they posit it as a "Rove trick." It's an absurd and ridiculous posture, which this brand of loser likes to label "Dissent." But in fact it's little more than their own personal issues transferred onto current events.

You really have to ignore their inane prattlings, because - you're right - they do drag down the whole group. People who behave this way have been traditionally shunned because they sap the energy out of any peer group they enter (and I'd expect that for many of them on DU, this is the first real peer group that has accepted them, primarily because contact is fairly limited). Ignore them. Really.

[texpatriot2004]

24. You have a point. I think Martin Seligman called it "learned

helplessness" it's kind of like classic victim with a twist. I do usually ignore them.

Peace.

[kenny blankenship]

16. I am living in a dream world!

and for me to continue to believe in my preferred and individual reality, no one must point out the "dream world" nature of my delusion. If I ever cease to believe in my dream world I will no longer enjoy the comforts of its illusions, such as they are. So do not interfere! I will never forgive you if you wake me up or say anything even accidentally which would cause me to become disenchanted with my anesthetized simulacrum.

Sorry but the corruption of the Bush Administration is only a reflection--albeit an intensified and concentrated reflection--of the corruption and moral degeneration of America and the vast majority of its citizenry. Mr. Bush is not the agent of infection by himself, but rather an attention grabbing symptom. And although it's true that it's worse now than at any time before in our lives, the disease is hardly new on these shores.

It's called the soul under capitalism.

[marions ghost]

26. oh yeah, change gonna come...eventually

I appreciate your positivism, texpatriot. We need a strong dose of that around here at times. I agree with you that attitudes appear to be changing around the country right now. The Rethugs are screwing up so badly that even their hardcore apologists are having a hard time defending them. We must seize every opportunity we can in light of this fact. I'm as committed to getting past this nightmare and creating a better world as you are.

But let me put out this thought to you...consider that we may not be able to depend on the current justice system to do this for us. We may not see the 'Rule of Law' applied objectively in a country that is so morally bankrupt. We The People are the victims of an historic hijacking of the government by those who have absolutely NO respect for the principles this country was founded on. They are shrewd and they will exploit the rest of us to the bitter end. Yes they are criminals, but the justice system does not work very well in prosecuting white collar crime (esp against lawyers and executives)...that is something we must work to change in future. Also various political forces will protect these corporate sleezeballs under the veil of not wanting to 'destabilize' the economy. We may not see these people punished to any degree but we will hopefully see them discredited in the short term.

Just saying, we are going to have to go full steam ahead regardless of whether we get the gratification of seeing justice served on the B**h Crime Family or not. If we have to witness their beating this rap it will be even more important to keep the morale up. Sure it will be necessary to watch what happens on the legal front but I don't think we should depend on that to solve our problems entirely. This dysfunctional system needs an EXTREME makeover. The culture of corruption is formidable. We need to pull together, you are so right about that.:)

[texpatriot2004]

27. Thank you for your thoughtful and thought provoking reply.

I see your point about the legal system and it is a good one. Too many white collar crimes go unpunished. It does need an extreme makeover. Thanks again for this post. Let's stick together.

:hug: