You guys are aware that Roe is now dead, aren't you?

[genius]

Bush would not have picked Miers unless she agreed with him on that. She's a right-wing Christian who thinks Bush is brilliant. With Harry Reid backing her, the Democrats won't put up a fight.

[NYCGirl]

1. Hyperbole much?

:eyes:

[mattclearing]

13. I don't think that's hyperbole.

She effectively swings the court 5-4 against Roe.

Edit: Granted that she is confirmed.

[NYCGirl]

18. There's absolutely no guarantee that she (or Roberts) would try to

overturn RvW. Think of Souter and how he turned out.

This is the kind of hysterical hyperbole the rightwing floats, "The Liberals are going to BAN THE BIBLE!!"

The absolutely WORST CASE — if RvW is overturned, it would go back to the states.

[mattclearing]

23. She tried to get the Bar Association to reverse its RvW stance.

She is an evangelical Christian, and associates say her beliefs are consistent with the majority of her conservative Christian peers.

She clearly opposes Roe.

[NYCGirl]

27. She tried to get the Bar Association to remain neutral on the issue.

Even if she opposes Roe that doesn't mean overturning it.

[mattclearing]

32. I suppose.

I think there's more evidence to suggest she's pro-life than pro-choice. I doubt Bush would have nominated her otherwise.

Amazingly, Roberts, whose wife is the executive VP of a pro-life group, seems to be the less adamantly pro-life of the two.

[mattclearing]

36. FYI, just saw this.

Kinda puts her opposition in stark relief:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4969710

[Fire Walk With Me]

51. Maybe BushCo have looked into getting their lawyer friends into small

government too.

The ultrachristians certainly have been at it, loading school boards, etc.

The sound you hear is that of freedom being whittled away.

[okieinpain]

65. nope sorry, this lady is not a souter, she is a fundie. bet money on it.

[LittleClarkie]

41. All. the damn. time.

Le sigh.

[NoPasaran]

2. Gee, I didn't even know he was sick.

[NYCGirl]

4. Is it too late to send flowers?

:hi:

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Roe was dead in 2004 when Bush was able to steal another election.

I will tell you this, because I've seen it before. It's the children of the right-wing conservatives who will suffer the most. They've been sneaking in under the radar to take advantage of liberal liberties, only to grow up to be phonies, like their parents.

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. Roe will never be dead.

Abortion is the only hold these fuckwads have over the religious reich types. If they overturned Roe, they would have nothing left to sell that crowd.

[papau]

6. I wish you were correct-but I fear "defending" is as good as "overturning"

as an election issue.

[Bok_Tukalo]

10. I disagree that Roe is the only hold

The Republicans have already seemed to transition into "the gay agenda" as the Boogen to scare Evangelicals.

[joshorton]

11. Miers Supported Full Rts for Gays/Lesbians and AIDS Education!!!

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2005/10/04/20051004_164600.htm

I think that Reid is just letting the crackpots take a stab at her before he jumps on board. If he lets them derail her nomination. Miers is also never been married, so who knows. I think she is a Bush lackey and not qualified to be a judge.

[crispini]

50. That is not true.

When she filled out that same questionnaire she said she would hire gays and lesbians, but she also spoke against repealing Texas' anti-sodomy law.

[joshorton]

66. oh, I see

Thanks for the update!

[jmm]

16. I highly doubt they're thinking that clearly and cohesively.

They have plenty of other issues to sell and nothing to lose by overturning Roe. Abortions always have and always will be available. The safe ones will go to those who can take a little vacation and find ways to get around the laws. I highly doubt the people pushing to overturn it care about those who can't afford safe ones.

[Zynx]

44. The issue is how many moderates they would lose.

They would lose a good solid 8% of the electorate over Roe being overturned. The vast majority of Americans do not want to return to the pre-Roe days. Roe v. Wade overturned equals the end of the current Republican coalition of moderate suburbanites businessmen and kooky religious fundamentalists.

[eleny]

19. They can sell their "victory"

It will be the gift that keeps on giving. I so wish you to be correct for the sake of women. But I don't believe in the theory that they need abortion as an issue. Winning that issue will fill their coffers for a hundred years.

Can you hear them lamenting about the fight that took over quarter of a century to finally win? Can you hear them crowing about how they never gave up until they won? I can. It's dismal and I hate it. But I think they can hardly wait to overturn.

[bloom]

7. I'm more worried

that the entire government is in it's last throes.

If Bush ever were impeached - he would have Roberts presiding.

Plus who knows what all sorts of fascist rulings they would make.

I don't think Roe is as much of a target as government and corporate accountability.

[The Sleeper]

8. maybe, maybe not.

Depends what else they can trot out to keep the nuts a twitter. They'll never be satisfied with JUST repealing R v. W....

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Yep, on the bright side

yes there is a bright side to this... bound to radicalize a bunch of young women, and I don't mean the ones who can fly to Switzerland...

[Cooley Hurd]

12. I doubt the GOP will ever kill Roe v Wade...

Why lose the best political wedge issue ever?

I'm much more concerned about civil rights, corporate influence in government and foreign policy issues (i.e. torture) than I am about Roe v Wade, at this point.

[papau]

21. Is the wedge lost?-you start defending the USSC's tossing Federal Abortion

rights.

I doubt the GOP will miss a beat.

[Zynx]

46. The real issue is how many moderates bolt the GOP.

Currently the Republicans get anywhere between a quarter and a third of the pro-choice vote depending on the election. Without this, they cannot win. The Republicans rely on a coalition of libertarian conservatives, economic conservatives(who overlap with libertarians), and religious conservatives. Libertarian conservatives would bolt so damn fast your head would spin. The most the Republicans could get in a world in which they are arguing for the pre-Roe days would be 42% + or - 3%. They would be a minority party and would self-destruct.

[serryjw]

28. Perfect...They now have it BOTH ways

83% of the counties in America have no reproductive rights and ROE will never get killed because (you are right!) they NEED it........Our problems is restriction of Birth control...This they may very well pull off....county by county

[nvliberal]

14. First of all "Roe," meaning Norma McCorvey,

isn't dead, and second of all, "Roe" as in the USSC decision WON'T be overturned, for the fascists and neocons (same thing) NEED this and other social issues to con their base into supporting their economic demise.

The most that will be done is there will be chipping around the edges to abortion access so that it is more difficult to get.

But if the NYT article is right, technology may outstrip efforts to outlaw abortion.

[Nederland]

17. NYT article?

What are you referring to? Do you have a link?

[eleny]

20. What article is that?

Can you give me the jist? I don't subscribe to the Times online. Any hint would be great.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

15. No, I think we've still got the 5-4 majority actually.

Last I checked, we still have Breyer, Ginsburg, Kennedy, Stevens, and Souter.

[win_in_06]

22. Then why was O'Connor considered to be the swing vote?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

25. Swing, as in "could go either way but usually on our side"

Not swing as in "either we have this vote or we lose".

[win_in_06]

26. The latter is what swing means to me. I think she was in that position on

at least one major SC decision.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

29. Check the NARAL bios for yourself.

We're still at 5-4.

[papau]

34. IF Kennedy stays left for Choice, it is 5-4 to not overturn after Mier

but if Kennedu follows his partial birth vote

(4)Justice John Paul Stevens, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Justice David H. Souter, Justice Stephen G. Breyer

(5)Justice Antonin Scalia, Chief Justice Roberts, Justice Mier, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, Justice Clarence Thomas

but if Planned Parenthood v. Casey (United States Supreme Court, 1992)where we had on our side O’Connor, Kennedy, Souter, Blackmun and Stevens has a hold on Kennedy - we WIN

But Kennedy has gone right on partial birth abortion!

:-)
:-(

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

37. That's still far from crying about it being flat out dead.

[papau]

40. true :-)

:-)

[liberalpragmatist]

42. In Casey, she was the fifth vote

However, in upholding the core value of Roe, Kennedy actually voted yes, making it 6-3. Plus, One of the dissenters was Brennan I believe, who was anti-choice, but replaced by Ginsberg (pro-choice).

So with O'Conner gone, we still have at least 5-4, 6-3 if you include Kennedy and 2 more if Roberts and Miers uphold Roe but uphold restrictions.

[papau]

30. I do not believe it is 5-4 in our favor after Miers.

In Planned Parenthood v. Casey (United States Supreme Court, 1992)we had on our side O’Connor, Kennedy, Souter, Blackmun and Stevens

but in Stenberg v. Carhart 530 U.S. 914 (2000)we had a Kennedy dissent.

Who are you counting as the 5 supporting CHOICE?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

31. Did you not read the post?

It actually lists them if you take a few moments. Got the names from the NARAL bios, by the way.

[papau]

35. IF Kennedy stays left for Choice, it is 5-4 to not overturn after Mier

If Kennedy follows his partial birth vote we'd have

(4)Justice John Paul Stevens, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Justice David H. Souter, Justice Stephen G. Breyer

(5)Justice Antonin Scalia, Chief Justice Roberts, Justice Mier, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, Justice Clarence Thomas

but if Planned Parenthood v. Casey (United States Supreme Court, 1992)where we had on our side O’Connor, Kennedy, Souter, Blackmun and Stevens has a hold on Kennedy - we WIN

But Kennedy remember has gone right on partial birth abortion!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

38. I got that the first time.

Thanks! :hi:

[papau]

39. :-)

:hi:

[liberalpragmatist]

47. Yeah and Byron White was replaced by Ginsberg

White dissented in Casey but was replaced by Ginsberg under Clinton.

So even if Casey was 5-4, with White gone and Ginsberg in, it was 6-3. Now with O'Conner out, even if both O'Conner and Rehnquist voted to overturn Roe, it'd still be 5-4.

[Zynx]

45. If you know anything about Kennedy, he is basically in favor of Roe.

Sure, he has voted to curtail certain aspects as have many justices, but he supports the basic tenants of Roe.

[papau]

52. Good to hear - thanks for the info - now we keep Stevens/Ginsburg alive

:toast:

[genius]

61. Miers is opposed to Roe. I've heard definitive info ont this

[Kolesar]

24. It's enviro & consumer protections that are going to get ripped to shreds

Courtesy of Justice Roberts

[preciousdove]

33. Granny held on to her "illegal" book on contraception pub 1921..

so she would remember what it was like to live through bad times and have white men, strangers, decide that sharing knowledge on how to not bring babies that you could not support into the world was a jail time offense.

I also heard about old Dr Moga, my first doctor as an infant, who did the "D&C's" for women here who should not have any more children.

How can conservative men not see that the fear of sex that this causes in women and especially women who grow up seeing the consequences in the adults they love, is not of any benefit to them or society.

Today, I am glad I have no granddaughters.

[tx_dem41]

43. Genius...heh, heh...

I love irony.

[MaineDem]

53. Irony is a good word

;)

[Lexingtonian]

48. No.

I really wish you would change your nic.

I'm not sure I can suppress the very cutting sarcasm it evokes much longer.

[dolo amber]

56. ...

:spray:

[blondeatlast]

57. I can no longer edit myself when replying; I try, I just can't.

Holding back would be the death of me.

[Fenris]

58. ....

:toast::applause::woohoo::thumbsup:

[Puglover]

49. Oh bullfuckingshit...

I'm sooo damn sick of BOTH sides and the R v W adnaseum. R v W is the wingnuts biggest and most divisive issue. They will NEVER over turn it. Ever.

[Geek_Girl]

55. I'm tired of it too

This is just a wedge issue to keep the fundies voting against their own self interest.

[ClassWarrior]

54. On the contrary...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2133487&mesg_id=2133487

NGU.

[tritsofme]

59. Kennedy is the fifth vote on Roe

However the Roberts Court will likely restrict Roe in big way, without overturning it.

[genius]

62. Not without O'Connor. He's now the 4th of 5-4 to overturn.

[tritsofme]

64. Casey was 5-4 in 1992, without Ginsberg

White voted to overturn Roe and Casey, Ginsberg replaced White.

Right now the Roe majority is 5-4, without O'Connor.

Ginsberg, Breyer, Stevens, Kennedy, Souter all uphold Roe.

Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Miers oppose.

[genius]

68. That was with a more moderate court than we will have

White was an honorable person.

[spacelady]

60. Like the Patriot act, like the Iraq "war", like everything that has come

down the pike that erodes our rights--let's just say Roe v. Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court (like * being handed the elections)
WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT??

[genius]

63. We have an anti-choice minority leader. Time for a replacement.

[npincus]

67. But is a GOP mutiny in the offing?