Democratic Values:

[dorktv]

I am posting this elsewhere but our values are:

Values like livable wages for honest work, help to those who need it, FAIR taxes that do not harm the little guy, major investment in education, internationalists without entering in every little fight militarily, and of course good governance with effective leaders in charge of agencies.

By trying to appeal to the middle ground, we come off as weak. I would say that we need to create this vision, tell everyone about it and then ask for help in implementing it because that lets others work out the endless compromises that are required when you actually are in power with us instead of just ramming it down their throats.

[nosmokes]

1. i can't help but notice the environment is missing from

your platform, as is universal or at least affordable healthcare.

[dorktv]

2. I could not figure out how to put it in. I will add it.

[sandnsea]

3. Those are policies

Values are things like "justice for all", not the programs and regulations that get you there. We've gotten stuck on the policies and haven't focused enough on the values, community, common cause, working together, perseverance, ingenuity, all those things.

[dorktv]

4. eh, I can admit I am not perfect...this was just off the top of my head.

no wonder it is screwed up. :p

[sandnsea]

7. No no

I was just commenting about the difference, to give folks something to think about. Republicans talk in values, and sprinkle a bs policy in here and there. We talk in policy and lots of people think, "another liberal social program". We do have to have policies though, just maybe mix it up a little better.

[dorktv]

11. I like what that other guy said: Decent Jogs, Decent Wages,

Decent Health Care...

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. When asked what do you stand for

don't even add the world descent... just say health care... once people ask, then you can go into teh policy and how you would achieve DESCENT health care... and remember, if they say socialist, you lost them...

[dorktv]

16. Top issue in my campaign...Universal health care using a

single payer system. Most people understood what I meant after I pointed out that would be just be a collection of money in one place that is then sent to the various doctors and hospitals on a monthly budget.

[sandnsea]

19. That's the problem

That's why we always end up losing, we fight over the how instead of the value behind the policy. We have to sell people on the concept of universal health care as a human rights value, a human RIGHT, before we can even begin to get into how to better deliver health care in this country. The second you say "single payer", you've lost 60-70% of the people you talk to.

[dorktv]

23. Then how come I got 102,363 votes?

Not ALL of them were because my congressman sucks.

People want health care access that is reliable, relatively inexpensive and decent.

[sandnsea]

26. Did you win? n/t

[dorktv]

30. Nope...but it was a well spent four grand I will say that much.

:)

[blondeatlast]

60. No, she didn't, but she made a surprisingly respectable showing.

She ran against a very well-known, well-funded, and very despised person on DU.

To get to 6 figures in this area against him was freaking amazing--and she did it with virtually no help from the party.

Dork's my hero!

:toast:

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Yes but you still need to keep it simple

two word culture

One of my personal heroes of the '04 Campaign is Congressman Kucinich, He IS a brilliant man, but his major problem was... it took at least 10 minutes for you to get his policy points.

You have 30 seconds tops

Oh and did you win?

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. You are a commie... sorry

but that will be the common response to that one... single payer has been demonized

Here is a principle used in game design, (I am one) Keep it simple stupid.

[dorktv]

28. Got that once during the entire campaign. The rest of the time

people were okay with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. But you did not win

you want to win, so you need to develop a message taht will get you over the top

And while you got it once... where somebody actually had the guts to tell you COMMIE... how many in teh audience were thinking it and would simply not say it?

We need to learn to speak a language that the people will apreciate, if you wuill a democratic code... the two word culture of the Pukes is a code... which is more than claer to the initiates.

[dorktv]

36. No I need to learn how to fundraise. I only raised 4 grand so my message

was not spread out as much as it could have been.


As for the commie statement, this was person to person.

Are you getting sleepy? Because you seem to be mistyping some words there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. It's late and the dyslexia is catching up

I agree with you a progressive message resonates... but I will still contend we need to tweak it and make it not only more palatable to even the you are a commie crowd, or moon bat, what have you, but every body else.

If we do that, and the votes are clean, we will even get the non votes to the booths.

[dorktv]

42. I agree that message needs to be worked on.

But get some rest so we can debate things on the morrow! Well later today.

[sandnsea]

33. Where'd you campaign?

Who are your constituents? Very interested.

I say that because we ran a single payer initiative in Oregon a couple years ago. It went down somewhere around 60-40. In Oregon that gave Nader 5%. We do have a program now that subsidizes private insurance. It's so damned simple, I wish they'd just put everybody in it and do away with Medicaid altogether. Make the damned insurance companies and corporate health care deal with the nightmare they've created.

[dorktv]

39. I got 38% in Arizona Congressional District 5.

Which is Scottsdale, Tempe, Fountain Hills, Awautukee, bits of Mesa and a few other bits of other towns.

Basically the eastern part of the Pheonix metropolian area.

I ran against JD Hayworth, which did make it way easier.

[sandnsea]

46. Oh man

Are you running against him again? I would sure like to punch that fucker right in the face. Kapow!! How's that for values!

I gotta go to bed now, I have an early morning. Kapow, be sure and PM me about your Hayworth plans if I lose this thread.

[dorktv]

53. Night! And I am not going to run against him this next time unless I

become really good at fundraising or I win the lottery.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. If you decide to do such

we will gladly help with message crafting

[dorktv]

56. Could I get some money too? *shameless begging*

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Whatever I can, which ain't much

but sure

[dorktv]

58. As Harry Truman said "sometimes you just need to stand aside

and let the other guy lose." Hayworth is a total git so I cannot imagine that a demi funded Dem running against him with a decent message could lose.

I might have won if I had another 15K.

[MazeRat7]

13. Values Continued...

Personally (that is "for me") a few on my short list are:

1) Its wrong to kill people or animals, no exceptions, and I am committed to protecting both.
2) We are all connected and I have a responsibility to honor that. (eg "your problems" are "my problems")
3) Honesty trumps Accuracy.
4) Integrity and commitment to principals is a virtue.
5) I will do what I say I will do.
6) I show respect to all living beings.
7) I always speak kindly even in disagreement.
8) I know my place in the universe..(yes it's bigger than me)
9) Things aren't always about me. (Sometimes they are about someone else)
10) I am a free and sentient being...and I will act accordingly.

Just my $.02... but I guess you now know a bit more about the mazerat....

MZr7

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Just one observattion and let me play devil's advocate

think yuo are at the local watering hole

What do republicans stand for? Jill asks,

Family values, joe answers

Now if they ask you, what do libbies stand for?

We are all connected and interdependent and I have a responsibility to honor that. (eg "your problems" are "my problems") By the time you reach intedependent you lost them.... fifty cent word.. adn too long

Rewrite this to we are all connected, aniother rewriet, "we are together" simpler, and easier, two word culture...

[sandnsea]

17. Everything's connected

When I read this in a speech by Teresa, I knew these were truly rare individuals:

"The most amazing experience for me was to stand beneath the jungle canopy towering 120 feet overhead. It truly had the feeling and simplicity of a gothic cathedral. The trees were like pillars, often anchored by buttress-like roots. They grew in a mere six inches of soil. You couldn't help but wonder what sustained them, and then you looked at the ground and saw the interplay of mosses, ferns, mushrooms, insects and animals, and you began to understand the beauty and complexity and interdependence of life.

We are, all of us, like those trees. Even they depend on the kindness of strangers, and so it is for us.

No matter how high we may sometimes soar, no matter how invincible we may sometimes feel, we are all fed and nurtured and sustained by complex webs of connection. We all truly are in this together."

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I know that, you know that

but the target audience is not ready for what they will call, New Age Bull shit, so you have to give it to them in ways that FIT their world view and culture.

Which brings me to the next point, the pugs literally spend millions developing things such as oh I don't know the Culture of Life... we need to start doing the same... and we need our own version of astro turf, all them email campaigns... and they have to be true, but simple...

When you have an educated population you can engage in policy or the long view. When you don't, you have to go back to comics

[sandnsea]

24. That's not new age bullshit

That's common knowledge in every nook and hollar in this country. It's what most folks live by. If you think there's a family farmer in this country that doesn't know "everything's connected", then you just need to get out more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Two word culture, THINK

two word culture, they know it is interconnected, but when you speak the language many have been trained to say, new age bullshit...

It is a knee jerk reaction

It is not waht people KNOW instintively and how they have been programed to react.

[sandnsea]

37. Well

If you're thinking that I mean to put Teresa's exact words out there in a campaign, uh, no. I know that wouldn't work. But the idea would, in vivid, write for radio, speak. So we're probably on the same page in that regard. But the idea that "everything's connected", which is TWO WORDS, the heartland knows that and it has tremendous potential to pull people together on the issues we need to face. Environment, poverty, education, terrorism, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. We are on the same page

and we all realize we need to develop that message and learn to talk to the people.

We also need to do it in such a way that the programing will not come back to the target audience.

;-)

[MazeRat7]

18. Good point...edit made. Thanks!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. think how you can do that with all of them

[MazeRat7]

31. I am an "engineer".... you are asking a lot, but I "will" think about it.

Seriously, this was an "off the cuff post", maybe if I thought in more detail I could distill it down much more. Maybe that is something I should be doing.

Thanks for the pointer.

MZr7

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. We have been havng the discusions about the progresive

message and we all need to help each other in developing the code. (And that is what their phrases are, a code)

[MazeRat7]

38. ahh... I just saw the post in "latest" and jumped from GD to contribute.

Mostly because I am frustrated that I don't hear a clear message of progressive/dem/lib values. You are right, the pukes have it down. But how hard is that if your biggest value centric issues are god, guns, and gays ?

They talk a lot about "values" but I have yet to hear them articulate exactly what those "values" are... other then the obvious worship of money and self.

MZr7

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Ok god

they mean in code Christianity, that most non christians have not figured this out, is another story.

Guns, they mean my right to have whatever I want

Gays, find yoru minority to oppress... and it also evoques the paternalistic family where dad knows best. Gays scare the living daylights out of them since some of them families are led by women, and means cooperation... this is the same reason women's rights scare the living daylights out of them.

Now to values

family values, a family of husband and wife and kids, where the husband works and the wife maybe does, but is not in charge.. it also evoques the paternalistic values.. remember this is a dad knows best environment

Some of their values, such as school vouchers are meant to close public education off, that is the end goal, because public education in an ideal world teaches studens how to think

Do get yourself Lakkoff's "don't think of an elephant." Even if you don't beleive in framing, it is invaluable because it gets the code out

Why do democrats have a hell of a time with defense? We are teh MOMMY party, the party of cooperation and all together now... in their cartoons, when the mask falls of, we are the kumbaya party, They are the daddy party, with a strong MALE figure to protect you.

That is why we talk of cooperation, and they don't.

[dorktv]

44. Moral Politics is better and should be required reading for

ANYONE who wants to run for office.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. I intend to get it

Lakoff is just a good intro

[dorktv]

54. Yeah Don't Think was a good distillation of Lakoff's Moral.

[dorktv]

20. Community

[MazeRat7]

35. Yes.. aka.. "Sangha". *smile. (n/t)

[jillan]

5. check this out

This was made by someone on the Randi Rhodes message board
it's awesome!

http://www.cafepress.com/koy/769870

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. thanks will order a T once I can

[KyndCulture]

62. YES her shirts are WONDERFUL!

I want this bag:

[mestup]

6. Dems are screwed as long as they try to pander to the current voting base.

They need to go after the non-voters. (The largest voting base.)

Their task is to court those people who stopped voting years ago. People who don't give a shyte about the wedge issues that generate the most in campaign contributions.

Decent Jobs. Decent Wages. Decent Healthcare.
That's what concerns this very large group of non-voters.

[dorktv]

9. I like that...I am going to steal it and use it in every campaign!

You rock! :toast: :yourock: :patriot:

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. speaking of the actual values will DO that

actually, you are telling us the values of the party already

(And I am happy taht we are now having a good discusion on this)

[mestup]

45. Hey nadin! Good to see you.

You must be a left-coaster like myself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Yes, yes I am, and over the last few days I have not been

able to sleep, feels like soemthing major is bout to happen... (I know indictments but I don't know how to put it)

[mestup]

49. Me too. Keep "refreshing" to see what the change is going to be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Ok lets play the two word cultre

If you are asked what do you stand for....

Freedom of Speech (feel free to add the Constitution)

Heath care for all

Workers rights

The environment

Things like that...

Now when people ask you ok, how do you want to achieve this? then you go into the policy

Just remember joe and jill need you to keep it simple and don't use 50 cent words...

[mestup]

50. The Joes and Jills in my neighborhood

still seem to be preoccupied with the price of gas.

(I'll give them that.)

I honestly believe from what I hear from the koolaid drinkers around me:

(shh....top secret...they don't mind paying good salaries to politicians and administrators if it means they can be freed up to pursue redecorating their kitchens in a milk-cow theme, or perusing Bride Magazine at the grocery store.)

To each their own, and whatever it takes. I think people just want to pursue their versions of "happiness" without all this "political b.s." They want to know their tax dollars guarantee their best interests.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Gas is the great awakening

and I have used this as an oportunity to talk to joe and jill in simple, almost comic terms... but some have gotten it.

Oh and the W stickers are ALMOST gone... the support the troops yella ribbons are now almost confined to vehicles with DoD stickers

[mestup]

52. LOL! Thanks for the great humor!

[phiddle]

59. Great Discussion

Try these Democratic values:
1. "SAFETY": use our military effectively and only where needed, make more friends than enemies, get cooperation of other nations.
2. "SECURITY": pension and SS stability, sustainable fiscal and environmental policies, efficient health care financing.
3. "PRIVACY"(Our social value): get government out of all reproductive issues, domestic contracts. Right to die with dignity.

The last, "privacy", I think is a winner with most Americans fed up with nonsense such as the Terry Schiavo case. Pro-Choice is also a clear winner, esp when framed as a privacy issue. Making a strong case that the repubs want to control private lives tends to strip the Libertarians away from them.

And I would frame the health care issue as "Health Financing", NOT "Health Care". (IMHO this was a major problem with Clinton's '94 plan, and left it vulnerable.) True, there are many problems of access (45 million w.o. insurance who end up in emergency rooms for routine treatment), but the 200 million Americans who do have access are generally satisfied with their medical care, but dissatisfied with the financing/insurance.

[dorktv]

63. Nah I always thought that the problem with Clinton's

plan was those commercials and the pitiful response from the DNC.

[blondeatlast]

61. Let me finesse a bit here, you can take it or leave it.

Our values are the value of honest work, community, efficient responsive government, opportunity, healthy, productive citizens, and being responsible contributors to the world community.

It's hard to do, but we need to think broadly first. What is it we want to see happen for ourselves and the world?

It's not easy to define our values--we know what we want, but we tend to think of how to acheive it more thatn the idea.

The first two values I listed are truly values, the rest are still too indefinable.