Anyone Who Thinks John McCain is Honorable,

[xkenx]

THINK AGAIN!!! He was in California yesterday, barnstorming with Arnold SchwarzeRENEGER, to help Arnold sell his very unpopular and misguided ballot initiatives. McCain criticized former Gov. Gray Davis for taking some $20 odd million in campaign contributions. Now he is propping up our sad governor who has been blessed with TWICE that amount in big business contributions. So much for talking about campaign finance reform. So much for integrity. McCain has proved that he's Bush's ho; now it's Arnold. Either McCain will do anything to further his ambition, or the Rethug bosses have some really big stuff on him. Either way, this DUer is really sick of seeing some DUers posting about McCain's decency, etc. When will they realize that the man is a CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN? Just because he comes out with something reasonable once in a while (where most Rethugs never do), doesn't make him anyone to respect. And to think there were those who promoting him to run with Kerry. Give me a break!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. He was an honorable soldier

and now he is a politician.

[driver8]

6. Exactly! I respect him for his service as a soldier and as a prisoner

of war. As a politician, he is a scumbag.

[matt819]

14. Devil's Advocate?

No, not McCain. But I'll play Devil's Advocate for a moment. I've always thought the same thing about McCain - honorable solider, POW - you really can't ask more of your citizens than this. And that he survived might very well be seen as testimony to courage, etc.

However. . . it strikes me as odd that a man that apparently showed as much courage and integrity as he has been portrayed over the years as demonstrating could not in good conscience throw himself so wholeheartedly over to the dark side. He has thrown his lot in with truly nasty people and has, in fact, been the target of their propaganda. Sure, I suppose a person can change over the course of his lifetime, but I think the fundamentals are just that - the fundamentals, the very core of one's being. That doesn't change (okay, Miers' born again-ness notwithstanding).

So the questions are thus: What does * and co. have on McCain that keeps him in line. Or, is he not the man of integrity that he has been portrayed over the past 30 years, including his time as a POW.

I'm not trying to spread rumors or cast aspersions (well, maybe a few), but you just have to wonder. As yourself whether the former soldiers running for office as democrats now -- Paul Hackett, for example - are likely to sell out in the years to come. Or are they men of honor, decency, integrity, and intelligence, for whom service, and doing the right thing, governs their actions, both as soldiers and, we hope, as politicians?

[karynnj]

15. Just a conjecture:

It seems McCain sees honor as being loyal to your group. In VN, he was loyal to the Navy code. Now, he is loyal to the Republican party. To the members of the group, this definition is good.

Not all soldiers define their values this way. (I'm talking here only of the best, as many people may not think about it at all.) At the other extreme, there are people like Kerry, who applied both his moral values and his knowledge of international law. He was motivated to try to change policy that he saw as deviating from what was morally right and against international law (first by questioning some policies in Vietnam with his superiors and then fighting against them before the Senate.)

The military rewards those who define honor as McCain did, but society needs individuals who follow their own moral compasses as Kerry did.

[Rene]

20. * surrounds himself with people he can blackmail or

people who can blackmail him. McCain / Meiers /Roberts....they ALL know where *'s skeletons are so they'e being "rewarded".

[MADem]

23. After he came back, he worked on the Hill awhile at OLA

He cut a WIDE swathe through there, screwed everything that moved. Treated his wife, who was really sick, like shit. That relationship did not survive. He was pretty obnoxious, too, lousy to staff, rude, intemperate. But hell, he admits all that crap, sorta, in a glossed over kind of way, so it is hard to see what they could hold over him that he pretty much would fess up to anyway, at least as regards his PERSONAL life.

He was involved in that banking scandal awhile back, maybe he dodged a bullet there, and they have documents that implicate him.

[MADem]

22. No, he was an honorable NAVAL OFFICER and POW

You can even call him a Sailor, but not a soldier!!!

He was a lousy husband to his first wife, a total shit when he worked at OLA after he came home, and he showed promise as a new politician, but now, he is showing his 'anything to win' side.

He has tarnished his reputation, and I do not know if he can ever buff it up again...

[Lithos]

2. Maybe once

But there is no honor among thieves.

L-

[cwydro]

3. weeelll.

my jury is still out...I loved when he gave it to Gen. Myers and his gang re Iraq...yeah, he is on the "other side", but that makes him even more valuable when he DOES speak up on the war etc...

[SoFlaJet]

4. I ain't buying

for the simple reason that he still was hosting a b-day party for the guy who allowed Rove and his operatives to smear his wife in SC with the push-polling calls.If it was me.....

[sniffa]

5. he aLso fathered a bLack, bastard chiLd

and, he received speciaL treatment in the 'hanoi hiLton' because he was a rat.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

7. Link? Hadn't heard about

an illegitimate child. How very unconservative.

[smartvoter]

10. It was a bogus smear campaign. See here:

Republicans will mutilate each other just as they do the good guys:

"It didn't take much research to turn up a seemingly innocuous fact about the McCains: John and his wife, Cindy, have an adopted daughter named Bridget. Cindy found Bridget at Mother Theresa's orphanage in Bangladesh, brought her to the United States for medical treatment, and the family ultimately adopted her. Bridget has dark skin.

Anonymous opponents used "push polling" to suggest that McCain's Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the "pollster" determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

Thus, the "pollsters" asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that's not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/

[xkenx]

12. Exactly

And after that contemptable smear, McCain embraced Bush. 'Nuff said.

[LittleClarkie]

18. And the bit about the Hanoi Hilton, near as I can tell

comes from that worm, Ted Sampley.

[Old Vet]

9. Yes, I give McCain his props for his military service BUT as....

for politics, He has consistently said one thing and done another. And he should be bitch slapped for letting bush punk him like that. I don't trust McCain ,Period.

[LittleClarkie]

17. You meant that as sarcasm right?

Because the first one was nothing more than Bush's smear on McCain in 2000. The second is worth of Ted Sampley and his "McCain is the Manchurian Candidate" brigade.

McCain's arms are shorter than they're supposed to be because he was tortured as a prisoner. He suffered plenty.

And I don't even LIKE the guy. The way he stumped for Bush makes me sick. But I surely hope you meant that all as sarcasm. Because repeating that garbage under any other circumstances makes me sicker.

[MADem]

24. Yeah, they left him with broken arms tied behind his back

He cannot even lift them all the way up anymore, you can see him compensating in the way he moves. He also has pretty bad cancer that keeps coming back on the side of his face.

[politicaholic]

8. I wonder how much Mcain's integrity went on the open market.

[onehandle]

11. He's a thug.

He would also make us miss Nixon.

[FARAFIELD]

13. Its easy

ON one hand to respect him because of what he went through. On the other hand i couldnt shake the hand of the man (bush) that smeared me. I would stick it to him every chance i get. and to CAMPAIGN for him made no sense. McCain has a safe seat and he is popular enough that he can do whatever he wants. I dont get his bit at all. IF someone like McCain would come out and say that his party is becoming a shell of its old self then people would really notice. However as a lot of people know, McCain is one of the most conservative members of the Senate. THat being said i wouldnt vote for him over any DEM, but he would have been a hellofa lot better than 8 years of Tipsy Mcdumbass.

[LittleClarkie]

19. How did he get the reputation as a maverick then

I just wonder how he managed that. Big talk?

[ncteechur]

16. I did at one time--might have even voted for him BUT

now he is noting but a hack and a sell-out. We'll see how much backbone he has if * vetoes the torture law and he can't muster enough support to override the veto.

I bet he can't -- nope, won't do it. He will not cross the president.

[laylah]

21. Not any more!

I used to but once he got out his knee pads in support of this ILLEGAL joke of an administration, that was the end of it for me.

Jenn