Talking with a major Republican "operative" tonight and he is SICK of Bush

[zulchzulu]

This guy has run several Republican governor and Senate races around the country and is very much involved in the Republican party. He's actually a moderate and is utterly sick and tired of the Religious Reich taking over that party.

We had a frank discussion about Bush, Rove, DeLay, Robertson, Cheney and the Iraq War. Needless to say, he finds Cheney, DeLay and Rove to be utter scumbags. He thinks the war is a disaster and wants us to withdrawal much in fashion that Feingold and others have suggested. He still likes Bush to some degree, but knows that he will be poison to any Republican candidate that dares to have him in a photo-op expecially in a tight race. Bush's Katrina debacle, his choice of Miers and the impending indictments that go to the heart of the White House make him sick of Bush overall.

I'm hoping people like John Gard, Sensenbrenner and other Wisconsin candidates take the bait and have Chimpy waving next to them in political brochures and commercials. My friend has suggested to some candidates to NOT have any links to Bush for the upcoming 2006 races. He knows. And he's scared.

As for Republican hopes in 2008, he likes Hagel and McCain but knows that the Religious Reich will never allow them to get the nomination. It's "going to be a very nasty, ugly race in 2008 on both sides"...

What I find as a lesson to all this is to not trash all Republicans so that they stay away from a possible vote for a Democrat in 2006...and 2008. We need to welcome those that are generally moderates that are finally getting over their Reagan hangover...it's now Bush and the Bush Crime Family that represent Republicans...and people aren't buying it anymore.

[populistdriven]

1. and they just reelected the SOB! They deserve even worse than the *

[whalerider55]

15. re-elected?

pre-selected
undetected

but certainly not re-elected.
you have tyo be elected to be re-elected.

whalerder

[Maddy McCall]

2. He just discovered that the religious right controls the Repub party?

How old is this guy? He should have had that epiphany in the 1980s.

[zulchzulu]

5. He has seen it for a while, but it's now practically possible to support..

He had an offer to work on the Mark Green for Governor campaign in Wisconsin. he asked two questions...one about his belief on Roe v. Wade and the other on stem cell research. Green was against both and he told Green his platform looks more like soe guy running for governor of Alabama....and a no thanks...

The more arrogant the Religious Reich get, the more people will stray away. This could be very welcome news for Democrats in 2006....and way beyond.

[Maddy McCall]

7. Gotcha. Well, I hope you told him that he's welcome in our party.

[yorkiemommie1]

14. right

if this guy is so disillusioned w/ the GOP i hope he leaves it and takes his skills elsewhere.

[jaysunb]

3. Recommended

good post ! :toast:

[rsmith6621]

4. Did You Ever Think

You would see America in such a wreck????


And I thought as a teenager that Watergate was as good as drama gets.

[frogmarch]

8. Good advice

you gave to not be too hard on all Republicans now that many are growing disillusioned with the Bush gang. It would probably only alienate them further, and our side can use all the votes it can get.

[Garbo 2004]

17. BTW, great little marching frog gif ya got there. :-D n/t

[bluedawg12]

11. No they are frightening and hark back to pre-civil war days

when southern (back then) separatists refused any reconciliation and pushed for the civil war.

it's happened before- and it's a horrible thought.

but they won't walk away from power and money lightly.

[ChiciB1]

59. Me Too!!! I Clipped Newspaper Articles Forever!

Put them in a scrap book and just dumped them last year!

Actually my former son-in-law wanted them. My scrap book was quite intensive and I dutifully entered daily data! And Newsweek & Time magazines from back then.

No comparison with what is happening now! Perhaps I should contact my ex-son-in-law again!! Never though anything could have been worse than Watergate!!

AAAAHHHH, Progress!

[babylonsister]

6. As an optimist, I discount no one. If

there was an honest Repug, I might consider that. But they have failed so miserably, it ain't gonna happen. I am SICK OF BUSH AND HIS ILK.
Suggestions of viable alternatives would be helpful.
:toast:

[bluedawg12]

9. They will abandon shrub they will not abandon

their ideology.

I don't have hopes of getting votes from the repugs- I think they are a lost generation.

I think the votes should come from aggressive vote drives: get the other 1/2 of the country into the booths.

Rally our base and get the moderates who have always been on the fence and pick them off.

Get young people out there to vote.

[enid602]

10. Bush '04

Although one cannot deny that this administration has been an utter failure, your friend's comments (and subsuequent posts on your thread) testify to the brilliance of Bush's 2004 campaign. The religious crazies were temporarily silenced, Bush ran on a campaign of small government and national security, and though deceitful, the Bush message said exactly what so much of the public wanted to hear.

[niyad]

13. then, of course, there is the small matter of the vote-counting and all

the problems and questions. bush may have run a campaign that some people wanted to hear, but there are serious questions about the legitmacy of his election.

[bluedawg12]

18. Vanity Fair wrote about Liebold the summer before the vote

and the message was clear- that Ohio was promised to shrub and the paperless computerized ballots were inescure.

Why couldn't/didn't we stop it?

Will that happen again?

[enid602]

20. chance

Obviously, Bushco left nothing to chance. Hell, look at the gaggle of lawyers he had on the SC steps after the '00 election.

[zulchzulu]

27. Absolutely....

My friend said that everyone "drank the Iraq War Koolaid" in the Republican party and now realize they were duped. The element of trust is gone. Even he admits that the cost of the war is abysmal. $7 Billion a month and Cheney is make money "hand over fist"...

Besides the Religious one-issue anti-choicers, a great majority of Republicans are so disgusted that they may indeed sit out the 2006 elections....and it makes total sense for Democrats to jump on that opportunity.

[AllyCat]

43. And by the following day, the media trumpeted the Religious Wrong's

effect on Bush's re-selection. They had to 1) appease Chimpy by lauding them in the press and 2) cover up the fact that they were ignoring the vote count.

[libhill]

57. The media in this country

has become a farce. Boot licking sycophants, all of them.

[Call me Deacon Blues]

12. If the election in 2008 is going to be as nasty as he thinks

Then we better be sure our candidate (male or female) has a "set", metaphorically speaking. Someone who won't take any shit from the Swiftboat sleaze machine that is the Republican party. Right now I'm leaning towards Al Gore (who's heard it all and isn't afraid of these bastards any more) or Wes Clark (who never put up with it to begin with). Two years from now? Who knows?

[AllyCat]

44. Amen, Diogenes.

I think Clark would be great, and while I didn't vote for Gore in 2000, I have been impressed with what he has been saying lately. I just wish he didn't have the Chinese campaign money soiling his hands. It won't take much to bring that up and use it against him.

[loudsue]

54. Clark probably wouldn't take any of it, and he'd do it with grace & charm

But as for throwing it right back at 'em, Howard Dean is the one who has the best pitch. I'm so glad these two are on our side.

I REALLY hope that whoever runs on the Dem side, they will absolutely REFUSE to listen to the DLC.

We can't afford another DLC-run losing presidential race. And I don't want to see Donna Brazile's face anywhere NEAR the candidate.

:kick:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. Are there old videos of Gard and Sensenbrenner with Chimpy waving

next to them? Past images of candidates shaking Chimpy's hand and appearing with him should be in the political campaigns of Democrats running against Republicans in 2006.

[longship]

19. Nominated.

This shows good analysis.

In particular, I find the info on Hagel and McCain comforting. Too many people around here think that Chimp will appoint McCain as veep if Crashcart Cheney is ousted or goes into cardiac arrest. They don't seem to understand the politics around the Chimp. The neocons despise McCain and would never give him a position of power. They're not above using him for photo ops, but they would never, ever appoint him as veep.

This guy validated my opinion that McCain is a person who would work with the Dems. *Prospective* minority leader?

[electricray]

21. I believe there is no room for crow on anyone's plate right now

We have to remember that this administration lies are so huge that they often seem implausible to anyone who ever supported Bush. Any proof we offer as evidence of this administration's ineptitude or down-right evil manipulation washes off their backs as persecution. It was only a matter of time until Bushco got so full of the beans that they would step in their own dung. Now that it has happened for all the world to see, these people are having a crisis of conscience and character. They believed so intently that they were the strong ones fighting the good fight. It is hard to come down off that mountain.

Now that Eisenhower Republicans everywhere are reassessing what it truly means to be a good American and have a strong democracy, it is important that they not be ridiculed. How succesful do you think any one in crisis would be if you simply berated their original decision rather than offering empathy and counsel? Imagine a friend just found out his girlfriend was cheating on him. Do you start by saying "I told you she was a skank, dude," or do you offer a bit more refined suggestion that there are other fish in the sea?

Welcome these new liberals into the fold. If you have to vent on someone stick to abusing freepers.

[BikeWriter]

24. An enlightened post. Thank you.

[sendero]

25. Every fiber of my being..

... wants to tell them all to go straight to hell, but of course you are correct.

[paineinthearse]

22. It is time for the Yankee/centerist rethugs to reclaim their party nt

[Lexingtonian]

23. So, what's his deal?

Does he still think 'small government' is going to happen or 'lower taxes', or how has he talked himself into sticking with these people the past 15 years?

I've known some people from the lower tiers of that game and they all tend to be pretty unideological. But something inside them pegs them one way or the other.

He doesn't need to be scared, he needs to discover his inner fatalist and just accept the disaster that next year is going to be for his team. After that he'll hear a lot less about the theocratic wackos and a good deal more from his side's owners.

[zulchzulu]

28. He was allured by the Great Miscommunicator in the '80s

The Reagan hangover is done for him at this point. Whether he can walk into a new room politically with his tail between his legs and join in the real fight is something that time will tell.

[hatrack]

31. 17 years to get over a hangover? That's some powerful Kool-Aid

I'm glad he's beginning to see the light, but how in God's name could it take him so long to return to reality? And a hard-bitten realistic political operative too?

:eyes:

[OneTwentyoNine]

26. Tired of the religious right so he votes for Bush TWICE?!?!??

Jesus,what did the FOOL expect? BTW,hope the fucker has lost a job or two,had to get rid of a car and can barely afford gas for the one he still has on his "wage concession" he was forced to take.

I'm wayyyy beyond feeling sorry for that asses that put this SOB in power.

[libhill]

58. Same here -

they don't give a rats ass what happens to the working class, but if things start turning sour for them, it's "cry me a river" time. They got what they asked for - the hell with 'em.

[leesa]

29. Why on earth does he like Bush?? What is appealing about that sniveling

coward? It's always these uber-macho men who think he's so cool, yet he's the wimpiest President we've ever had by far.

[Telly Savalas]

30. Hagel and McCain are not moderates.

They are conservatives. Anyone who supports them is either conservative, very confused, or both.

[barb162]

36. but at least they are not as bad as the current guys

at least Hagle has the cajones to wonder aloud WTF we are doing in Iraq.

[DinahMoeHum]

52. With McCain, though, the links to Bush = the political kiss of death.

All we gotta do is drag out those pictures of McCain hugging Bush for dear life.

:kick:

[Toots]

32. They will never vote Democratic no matter what.

They literally hate Liberals. The best we can possibly hope for is that they just stay home and sit this next election out....

[Lisa]

55. staying away (or splitting the GOP vote with other candidates) works too!

I'll take anything, at this stage!

[BlueManDude]

33. his disgust won't stop him from furthering the religious reich agenda.

at this point ALL GOPers (even "moderates") must be defeated. that is the only way to "change" their party. thanks for the info but i've no sympathy for this guy. i hope he goes broke after losing all his campaigns.

[snippy]

34. People like him are the most vital supporters of the Religious Reich.

While many of the leaders of the Religious Reich are spawns of Satan it is people like your friend who have made the Faustian bargain of supporting evil in exchange for winning power. The national power of the Religious Reich would be maginalized in the blink of an eye if all decent republicans would stop supporting them just because they are republican. Decent republicans need to either take back their party or leave it.

[barb162]

38. see the OPs post 5 where he wouldn't work on that one jerk's

campaign

[AllyCat]

45. Mark Green--you said it: he's a jerk.

I don't particularly like our DLC Governor, but he was handed a huge mess when Tommy Thompson and his ilk left office. Doyle is trying to clean up the mess and his decisions are not popular. But he is getting our budget back under control. Slowly.

If it's Doyle vs. Green, I'll take Doyle any day of the year. Green is a RW nutjob to the nth degree and I imagine our Repuke controlled Assembly would just love to work with him. Doyle has line-item veto and is basically making mincemeat of every Fundie supported piece of crap legislation that comes his way.

[gratuitous]

35. Gee, that's too bad for him

He's only about six years behind the rest of us. But at least he has some inkling of what we've been going through all this time. I wonder if he's sick enough that he'll be advising his Republican clients to speak out publicly against the corrupt Bush administration? Because otherwise, he's just another enabler, picking up a fat check while watching the country circle the drain, and hoping that he's far enough away (rich enough) that he won't get sucked down with the rest of us.

[zulchzulu]

42. Some Republicans view being Republicans like joining a country club

I remember years ago when I asked some guy why he liked Reagan and he retorted that why choose Velveeta when you can chose Brie. His insinuation was that being a Republican is like being more "top drawer", "more successful", a "better business person" and all that other claptrap. It's like joining a fancy country club versus working out at the Y with the great unwashed.

His siblings are all Democrats and it may have something to do with the perception that he has become "successful"...the guy is smart as a whip and a decent person, but this strategy has finally come home to roost.

I have hope he will use his talents for the better, i.e. working on Democratic campaigns...

[gratuitous]

47. Perhaps he will use his talents for the better

But if not, well, I'm on record with what I think of him.

[AuntiBush]

37. Been Posting the Same Exact Thing Here

Living 'round many olden Republican voters, they've been in "fed-up-to-here" mode w/Bush & CO since early this year.

Never do I bring-up politics when I'm around them, rather "they do," and it's the topic of most of their conversations.

Sadly, all of them feel the need to state the same thing repeatedly when complaining to me, knowing I'm a Democrat and that is, "And I'm a Republican, but never again."

All of them (all different then the next) agree the War is a sham and are fed-up with it and the $$$. They somehow have sorted through their Faux News channel that they've been "duped," their words not mine. Yet, consistently they also say the same thing, "why won't the Democrats stand-up and do something?"

That's what they want to see - Democrats standing-up and protecting them from these "evil ba$tards." Again, their words, not mine. Hear this from afar and when I order a drink near them.

They're numbers are many, been around a long, long time spanning the nation long before I was born and are adamant voters. And THEY VOTE DEMOCRAT most all the time.

Look at our long-time Senators in the state of Maryland: Sarbanes (D), Mikulski (D) & Dutch (D).

[AuntiBush]

40. On Note:

Most groups & folks I'm familiar with (many, for eons in my heavily demographic area, of which I grew-up amid) vote on ISSUES, not the "party lines."

Literally every Republican voter I know, and I know plenty, could CARE LESS about abortion one way or the other, much less the religious-right whiners (again, their words), rather they're hard-working, blue-collar folks that just want to churn-out a living, and have a govt they can trust. They do not like what's going on 'round here, and always tell me to mention this out here.

They're also fed-up with corporations like Beth Steel & GM that took their jobs from them. If a Democrat would just stand-up and help them, more Dem's would get votes - this group is nationwide. This group is big, strong-held and will vote like mad to get */* out of office. They are strongly for Impeachment, too.

Here's hoping some Dem leaders read this.

I forget sometimes, reading/waiting on the Fitz GJ decisions.

:popcorn: :beer:

[barb162]

39. I am glad to hear this and thanks for posting

[AuntiBush]

41. We Have to Remember

The controlled MSN wants us to believe we're "divided" like never before. I say, BULL#HIT! Maybe in the south, but in general no civilization is perfect. I'd estimate they'll ALWAYS be roughly 35% of Americans that will always disagree with any given issue.

Look at the polls. I say we're more united then ever.

[Clark2008]

48. We're not divded in the South, either.

Many a paelo-conservative around here is fed up to the ears with BushCo. and the Religious Reich, as well.

The nuts have taken over their party and they don't like it.

[Virginian]

46. Virginia has a hot election next month -- Could use help.

Why wait until next year or three years from now. Democrat TIM KAINE is running the race of his life against neo-con Jerry Kilgore. Our election is on November 8. That is less than a month from now.

The Dem, Tim Kaine, is a smart compassionate man who has been a missionary in Central America. He has a genuine caring for people, all people. The neo-con is the same old spend and spend Republican with no real plan for the state, but with a lot of money for attack ads which are all lies. Rove and Cheney are scheduled to help out the neo-con in the next few weeks.

See my previous post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=183&topic_id=2217&mesg_id=2217

Here is his website:
http://www.kaine2005.org/

[indepat]

49. So sick of hearing Pukes who have supported every W disaster now deserting

the ship: this administration has been a fricking national disaster from day-one and now, all the sudden they wise up? This nothing but gross hypocrisy from some of the biggest hypocrites who have ever graced this earth.

[starroute]

50. Proverbs 16:16-19

Try telling this to your favorite religious rightie:

How much better {is it} to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!

The highway of the upright {is} to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.

Pride {goeth} before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Better {it is to be} of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

A bit much dividing the spoil with the proud lately, eh?

[ChiciB1]

60. Veddy, Veddy GOOD!

Got that light bulb shining, eh???

[Nothing Without Hope]

51. I agree emphatically - we must be open to Republicans of conscience

We will always argue over social priorites but we have to stand together in the urgent, last-ditch fight to save democracy and the rule of law. The Bush Administration has gone to the OPPOSITE of most traditional tenets of their party: fiscal conservatism, privacy rights, caution about foreign entanglements, and much more..and then there is the massive corruption. On most of these issues, Democrats are more representative of their stands than the Bushies are.

I'd change one word, "now," to "not" in your last paragraph - then I would agree emphatically. I'm betting it was a typo:

What I find as a lesson to all this is to not trash all Republicans so that they stay away from a possible vote for a Democrat in 2006...and 2008. We need to welcome those that are generally moderates that are finally getting over their Reagan hangover...it's NOT Bush and the Bush Crime Family that represent Republicans...and people aren't buying it anymore.

I love this photo, which was taken at the Wash DC anti-Iraq War protest of Sept 24. The photo was posted in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4876705

[ewagner]

53. My fondest hope

is that the Republican Party will splinter between the moderates (paleo-cons) and the radicals (neo-c0ns). The Paleo-cons will vote for Democrats just to cleanse the party and the neo-cons will go down with Bush*'s sinking ship....

Thanks for the encouragement.....we need to Welcome our moderate Republican friends and let them know we empathize with them on the hijacking of their party by the talibornagains....

[struggle4progress]

56. Any Republican who isn't noisily opposing Bush today is a supporter. eom

[NVMojo]

61. All US citizens have been fucked by the Bush crime network/neocons!

Thankfully, more of them know it then 5 years ago. Sadly, people have lost their lives because of these freaks!

[Hissyspit]

62. He needs to grow up. There is no reason to "like Bush a little." There

never was. These people always telegraphed who they were. There is no such thing as COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATISM, for instance. All of what has happened was predictable and was predicted.

[zulchzulu]

63. About "liking Bush a little"

My Republican friend likes (or liked actually) Bush "a little" as opposed to some blind mook who thinks everything Bush says is "the way it should be".

He jokes around about his faults and has now actually found Bush to be completely ineffective as a leader.

Let's just say his view on Bush was one of a tepid default Republican loyalty-based flavor....and no more...