The White House implosion has rendered the DLC/no-DLC argument moot.

[Writer]

It didn't take a careful positioning on issues.

Nor did it take screaming obscenities or standing tough.

All it took was patience. These ideologues were designed to fail from the get-go. Iraq was based on a lie, and this has angered the neo-cons. They believe the Bush Administration has destroyed 50 years of research, theorizing, and planning because of their botched handling of the Iraq War. That's got to piss them off. Immensely. The religious conservatives are angry because they're realizing that this adminstration has been leading them by the nose, and traditional fiscal conservatives left long ago after Bush's outrageous, irresponsible spending.

The fact that we ARE in a position to recapture Congress next year is due to a prudent approach to positioning ourselves as an opposition party, but not the loud-mouthed, screaming crybaby variety. We are now ready, at will, to demonstrate to the American people who we are and for what we stand - but not make asses of ourselves a la the 1994 Gingrich Republicans.

Most important, AMERICA IS READY TO HEAR IT. They were not ready in 2002, and (sadly) in 2004. They are ready now because they finally have seen enough of Bush's destruction. They are ready to hear again from a UNITED Democratic party! Let us not waste one more electron on this self-defeating DLC/anti-DLC argument. The only people in power are those who go to the voting booth on Election Day, and they are every stripe of Democrat. It is US, the American public, who dictates what type of Democrats represent us. And we each live in different states, counties, and districts. But we all believe in a better future, and that future now is up to all of us.

Don't spoil it with more self-defeatism. Instead, fight for unity.

[Why Syzygy]

1. Nice try.

No go. The DLC can go to Jurassic Park.

[Richard Steele]

5. Second that emotion, but you expressed it more KINDLY....

Basically, any votes we pick up will be a backlash
against "pro-corporate anti-people" ideology.

And the DLC, who have done nothing but HELP
B*shCabalInc™, who hold the same ideals,
expect to sit quietly and come along for the ride,
pretending they were always on OUR side.

BULL.

We need to put DEMOCRATS back in charge of the Democratic Party.
Corporate WHORES already have a party to call their own;
let them be happy with that.

The DLC helped make the mess we are in, and they did so
willingly and enthusiastically.

Fuck the DLC.
Fuck it in it's little black HEART.

[tx_dem41]

6. Can you name some of those Democrats that you want "back in charge"...

and tell me when they were in power?

[Why Syzygy]

11. Probably ...

yet to be named. Can you deal with that?

[Richard Steele]

16. Yes, of course I can. But I won't. Not for YOU, at any rate.

Because I have decided that life is too short
to waste any more of it
by participating in the types of "communications"
which comprise the vast bulk of your posts here at DU.

Your posts are, IMO, worthy of neither notice or comment.

I call no names; I make no accusations.
I am simply taking this opportunity to politely
inform you that I will not be responding to you
any longer.

Good day.

[paulk]

38. in other words

you can't defend your POV.

[David Zephyr]

67. "Nice Try": You took the words out of my mouth.

Regardless of how many times the DLC has been discredited, how many times their slimy motivations have been exposed (their orchestrated and financed shady campaign to hurt Howard Dean), there are those who still try to trumpet their cause and one has to wonder...why?

[Fovea]

2. Instead, fight for unity

Excellent idea!
Could we get a solid progressive platform
and get the DLC to sign onto it?

That would not only show us as an opposition party, but an opposition party with an opposing platform.

[snowbear]

3. Although.... I will say....

Even if there is some DLC/DNC grumbling ever so often... when our candidate has been nominated.. we RALLY. We come together in support, and we rally.

We just do. Happens every-----single------time.

Which isn't such a bad thing!

[Why Syzygy]

10. So.

That would be why we have a Repuke controlled House, Senate, Judiciary and Executive branch? WE RALLY?

[snowbear]

22. We do now.

We won't for much longer.

[AntiCoup2K4]

44. But only if we rally around THEIR candidate.

And that's not happening in 2008. No Hillary. No Biden. No Bayh. None of those half assed Likud blowing, MBNA loving, defense contractor enabling tutu wearing suckasses need apply.

[Le Taz Hot]

59. I wouldn't bet on it

What the DLC/milquetoast candidate supporters don't seem to get (still) is that THEY blew their chance with Kerry. Those of us who still solidly believe in the core Democratic values (corporate whores and war mongers need not apply) are fed up with morally bankrupt, power hungry candidates who can't see any further than their next corporate bribe, er, donation. I could not bear to vote for the Democratic candidate in 2004 (and before someone gets their panties in a wad, I'm in a solidly blue state -- CA). MILLIONS did the same and MILLIONS will continue to do the same until the Democrats come to their senses and nominate someone who stands for something other than war mongering and lining their own political pockets.

[firefox]

4. The purpose of the DLC is to divide

Forget them and there is your unity.

Screw the DLC.

[EST]

7. You make a lot of sense.

In an ideal world, that would be the end of it. Unfortunately, this is the real world and most voters are woefully uninformed and only know the prepackaged pablum they've been sold, being unwilling or unable to do any original research. DLC sells the same crap that the r/w corpo-theocratic fascist pundits have so successfully marketed.

The voting public has yet to realize how defective this philosophy actually is, and no, I don't think America as yet ready to hear the voice of reason. Maybe another year will do it, maybe not. As is the case of an alcoholic's decision to instigate recovery, it has to get so bad the abuser recognizes his own powerlessness in the face of desire and self importance.

The DLC represents the same corruption and power politics that is eating the nut jobs and any attempt to rethread and start the country back toward a successful model is as doomed to failure as Hillary's health care program, unless the crazies are thoroughly discredited and the culture of corruption that has invaded the compassionate progressive assemblage is rooted out and destroyed. Then and only then can we go back to a satisfactory government of barely good enough, as seems to comfort the most people.

[KingFlorez]

8. People do not like crooks

And with the leader of the House indicted that's bad for the GOP. We have really good candidates running and will have a platform to go on. The people who will bring us victory are moderates, indies and of course progressives. Instead of fighting we need to build that type of coalition while things are starting to turn around. This is our election to lose.

[fujiyama]

9. You have a good point

As Dean was stating tonight, the pukes are making it easier for Dems to make their case to the American people. They are destroying themselves (and the US for that matter) - not only with bad policies, but literally - in eating themselves as well.

People have to realize that in the real world, nobody knows or cares about the 'DLC'. Most have never heard of it. There was an article where some bloggers were talking about it with Paul Hackett during the special election and he asked 'Who is the DLC?'. Granted, I'm sure he knows now.

However this doesn't mean the DLC shouldn't be held accountable. They certainly should be. They have to be more clear in their opposition to Bush's policies in the way they vote and what they say. And Senate DLC members shouldn't be surprised if people are insulted and angry at them when they hear the kind of crap From and Marshall put out there.

[DLnyc]

12. All I ask is that DLC make it clear

they are against WHAT BushCo is doing, and not just jealous that WE aren't doing it. In a nutshell, I will support anyone that makes it clear that
1. They are serious about cleaning up the obscene corporate/political culture of greed and corruption that BushCo epitomizes.
and
2. They are serious about getting out of (and not getting into any more) wars that have absolutely nothing to do with defending our country, or even defending its values, and everything to do with increasing the profits and power of a select group of already rich and powerful individuals.

I agree we need to all work together. I assume you agree we can agree on one or two minimum standards.

(I am hoping almost all Democrats agree with these basic ideas. Unfortunately, many 'leading' Democrats currently are coming out with such careful and nuanced statements that it's hard to be sure where they really stand on these basic questions.)

[welshTerrier2]

13. fantasyland ...

the place where events might help heal some of the rift without any real process of reform or any improved intra-party communication is on the war ...

we all want a united party but there is no way, no fucking way, i will ever vote for a bush enabling war supporter ... got that??

Hillary's hawkish howlings have rendered her an unacceptable DLC drone ... there is no way i will ever vote for her ...

unity is still possible in the Party if the chickenass Democrats ever call for withdrawal and stop allowing bush to conquer Iraq for his friends in the oil industry ...

[dweller]

14. the DLC is complicit part and parcel to why we are here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x164189
today.

oust them.
dp

[me b zola]

15. Moot my ass!

Here is a repost of a little something that I wrote in GD...enjoy!

What is the DLC's obsession with DU?

The dlc is not an ideology, it is a think tank--you know, like PNAC. There are no voters who say, "gee I want to vote a straight dlc ticket", only lobbyist who try to buy politicians and sway politicos.

Any person who is politically active looks at the influence behind a candidate to get a feel for who they really are. The truth is, the dlc has such a well-earned bad reputation that a Dem who votes for their own self interest ($$/power) or is even corrupt is labeled dlc.

So self-assured as to their choke hold on the political party (no, I'm not speaking about repukes, but it sure does sound that way, huh) the dlc actively campaigns to denigrate it's party's base. No, not ultra left leaning people, the Democratic Party's base who believes in the New Deal and the Civil Rights Movement. For having the audacity to remember and try to bring the party back to it's grand ideals, for that we are called the "loony left" by our very own dlc.

At the same time as spokespeople for the dlc are denigrating the Democratic Party's base, people log on to DU with a dlc agenda. Hmmm. Like I have previously noted, voters do not associate themselves with a "think-tank", only lobbyist do that. And what do we see from posters with a dlc agenda? The same hateful rhetoric that is used against us that the repukes use to denigrade us.

The dlc has tried to convince people that they represent the "middle". I say bullshit. None of the conservative or moderate Dems that I know feel as though the dlc speaks for them. Hell, Mr. zola is a recovering repub and despises the dlc and every thing that they stand for.

DU has no obsession with the dlc, we have an obsession with representative government of the people, by the people, and for the people. It is the dlc who obsesses with taking over our progressive message board like they have our party.

Scat. Be gone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5011712

[loudsue]

17. Boy! Great post me b zola!

"DU has no obsession with the dlc, we have an obsession with representative government of the people, by the people, and for the people. It is the dlc who obsesses with taking over our progressive message board like they have our party."

And, lately, it sure appears that this is what has happened. Sometimes, when I read posts like the OP just put up, I feel like I want to go take a bath. The agenda is so frikkin' transparent, and insincere.

"Here...come get in this car with me and I'll show you my puppy. I'm your FRIEND!" :evilgrin:

Corporatists. Fascists. They're eating away at the fabric of our society. They're destroying our country.

:kick:

[Richard Steele]

24. So, apparently "zola" is latin for "brilliant"?

Quote:
"DU has no obsession with the dlc,
we have an obsession with representative government
of the people, by the people, and for the people.
It is the dlc who obsesses with taking over
our progressive message board like they have our party."

DAY-UM, that's a beautifully concise summary!!!

PleasePleasePlease move to my area and run for something...
I really wanna vote for you!

[paineinthearse]

33. me b zola

:yourock:

[DLnyc]

18. Okay, but who are we?

" We are now ready, at will, to demonstrate to the American people who we are and for what we stand"

Okay, but who are we and for what do we stand?

Speaking from careful observation, not from a desire to 'be right' or to further some ideology, but just from observation and experience, the 50% of Americans who don't vote and the large numbers of voters who were duped into voting for repubs last time but are quite disillusioned now will NOT BE VERY MOTIVATED to vote or to switch if the answer to the above question is

We are trying to think of a way to slightly decrease the corruption
and
We don't like what Repubs did in Iraq and we will do something slightly different.

This kind of platform will result in 50% (or more) not voting at all, and the remainder being split almost exactly half and half between two parties that don't make it clear how they differ. Just like what has happened in the almost all elections over the last 20 years.

EVEN THOUGH DEMOCRATS DO REALLY HAVE MUCH BETTER POLICIES WHEN THEY'RE IN.

[Guaranteed]

54. Exactly. That's what the DLC DOESN'T do. They don't show principle.

The American people want to know what our party stands for. The OP apparently thinks that the DLC should have some hand in that?

I don't fucking think so.

[xultar]

19. Why? Don't we still have enough bullets to shoot each other?

Ahhhh wouldn't it be nice. But, I don't think so. Nice try Bub.

[longship]

20. I agree, with a caveat.

Because of DLC PAC interference the Dems may lose a great candidate in Ohio. Any more funny business like that and there will be more than a few Dems who will either want to go to war with the DLC PACers or will leave the party altogether. Either way, the Dems lose.

Unity means tolerating candidates with differing opinions. I can easily tolerate the DLC PAC candidates on many issues, even when I disagree with them. There are many districts where those positions play well. But nobody should have to tolerate politics as usual. Either the DLC PAC wants to join with the party in unity or they do not. Actions speak much louder than words.

Us liberals are glad to have them at the table as long as they don't try to take the whole table for themselves. What's called for here is negotiation and compromise, not political gamesmanship and backroom deals. We don't need to emulate the Repugs.

The party is big enough for all of us and there is a significant liberal faction in the party, just as there is a significant moderate/conservative faction. If we all play nice and listen to each other, we win against all comers. That's the secret to success.

Indeed. Let's unify.

[paulk]

39. Brown is hardly the sort of candidate the DLC would push

I know you're hanging that statement on Schumer, but I think you're missing the mark. I really don't see the DLC involved in this. It doesn't make sense.

What if Brown wins in Ohio? He's far more progressive than Hackett. He even voted against the IWR.

[longship]

45. A Brown win would be good.

But Paul Hackett might bow out of politics because of this business. That is probably a grievous loss to the party. I cannot imagine why Schumer did such a very divisive thing. It has left a sour taste in many of our mouths.

I am most unhappy with Schumer right now.

[dolstein]

21. Oh please . . .

Let me get this straight -- The Democrats don't have to convince the American public that they share their values and are capable of defending the country. The Democrats don't have to come up with a coherent set of policy propals that are both convey the values of the party, expose weakness in the Republican Party and can appeal to voters outside our base. No, all we have to do is sit around waiting for the Republican Party to implode, something that happens about once every 20-30 years.

Pardon me for dissenting on this one. Ideas matter. Values matter. The personal appeal of candidates matters. It doesn't matter if the Bush administration implodes. Bush won't be on the ballot in 2006 or 2008. It is folly to assume that the Democrats can take back Congress in 2006 and the White House in 2008 simply by having a (D) next to their names. Buy hey, if you want to enjoy this delusional fantasy while it lasts, be my guest.

[marions ghost]

29. Right, we can take NOTHING for granted ...

it is time for reform of the Dem party, and that doesn't mean pandering to the DLC DINOS anymore. It is not time for party unity above all, it's time for major changes. This dialogue about the DLC is critical to that goal and is overdue.

It's always the Progressive wing that has to kowtow to the Conservative wing of the Dem party. Never the other way around. Exactly HOW FAR has that gotten us? We need to get out of this downtrodden mentality --that we 'liberals' must be satisfied with the crumbs all the time... IT"S TIME for the liberal majority to come out of the holding pen. We need to emphasize unity among liberals/progressives FIRST, which is difficult enough. Let the DINOS understand that Times have Changed. If the DLC corporate elites were really essential to us, they would have proved that before now. They need to be challenged and exposed. In addition we need to be suspicious of the pervasive DLC "mentality"--the notion that the Dem party needs to be conservative to win.

Can the OP or anyone else please tell me what the DLC (or DLC mentality in general) is REALLY doing for the rest of us?

[dolstein]

36. Thanks for aptly stating the position of the delusional wing of the Party

Of course, those of us in the "reality based community" understand full well that the reason why the Democrats have lost seven of the last ten presidential elections isn't because our candidates haven't been liberal enough.

[marions ghost]

51. you think I'm delusional?

that I agree with the OP? Care to explain your statement....I'm so delusional I'm probably not able to understand without further explanation.

[dolstein]

56. Sure

If you consider the DLC conservative, you're quite delusional. Only a die hard socialist would consider the DLC conservative. There aren't any conservative Democrats anymore. Zell's gone. Richard Shelby switched parties. All of the Democrats these days are different shades of liberal. It wasn't always that way. Up until the 1960s, the Democratic Party spanned the entire political spectrum. The Democratic Party didn't lose its majority status because it became too conservative. It lost its majority status because all of the conservatives, most of the hawks, and a fair number of moderates left the party. I don't know why so many DU'ers desperately cling to this fanstasy world where the Democratic Party was founded by George McGovern in 1972 and later killed off by the DLC. The Democratic Party was in steady decline for a good 25 years before the DLC was even formed. The DLC tried to stem the decline by repackaging traditional Democratic liberalism in moderate clothing, but, despite Bill Clinton's own success, the public never entirely bought into it, in large part because most party officials and interest groups remained hopelessly mired in their left-wing ideology.

[marions ghost]

57. The DLC

is conservative. I have read their stuff and also have knowledge of the group from people in the know. I am very firm on this opinion--I gave them a chance and in my book they have failed. If the DLC is NOT conservative, they certainly need a new PR team!

The DLC does not respect the Liberal wing of the party--they only want us around to vote for their agenda. They have tried to divide us from them--to contain us rather than speak to us. Their tactics within the party are divisive and condescending. Oh yeah, and so now it's all OUR fault that the public never entirely bought into the DLC? Whew, you been drinkin that DLC koolaid or somethin?

You didn't answer my question:

Please tell me what the DLC (or DLC mentality in general) is REALLY doing for the rest of us? Just tell me what the DLC is doing for us now...give me some facts.

[Why Syzygy]

23. Above posts

make clear some of us ARE of the "loud mouth-ed" variety.

We were sold "Unity" last year. I hope to goddess it doesn't happen again.

Patience? I'm out of it. How 'bout you?

How patient do you intend to be?
Wait for Dems to vote for Ira*q war? Check. Got it.
Wait for Dems to vote for stupid energy bill. Check. Got it.
Wait for Dems to vote for "no child left behind"? Check Got it.
Wait for Dems to vote for any hair brained thing that Bush promises? Check. Got it.

Please understand that some of us are more left leaning. Where else have we to go? Sure not repukehood.

Maybe we need a "Peace and Prosperity" Party.
Representation. Get it?

[lateo]

25. Ummmm.....no....

Kthnx....drive through now....

[sendero]

26. I agree...

....... there really is no argument. The DLC types were largely in favor of Bush's escapades. They are now as irrelevant as the Repubs are.

[Q]

27. I'm glad to see there are still Democrats keeping up their guard...

...about the DLC. They will never go away on their own.

The DLC is well-paid to do exactly what they've been doing since the 90s: divide the Democratic party and prevent Progressives/Liberals from attaining any real power within the party. They're no more interested in representative government than the Bushie Republicans.

We must never underestimate the DLC's power to work behind the scenes to influence elections and help the right character assassinate any and all progressive candidates that become too popular with the rank and file.

The DLC doesn't really care about winning back congress. They want to put one of their own in the white house...where they'll have all the power they need to make changes in the imperial presidency designed by the Bushies and approved by the DLC.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. Is there an "official" unified DLC position on the US invasion of Iraq?

By that I mean. Did they oppose it from the start? Or is it more of we would have done it but better and more efficiently type argument?

[AntiCoup2K4]

30. Yes, there is.

It is "whatever the oil corporations and the Likud want is cool with us"

[AntiCoup2K4]

31. I'm all for a united Democratic party

As soon as the corporatists and Likud whores leave.

[bee]

60. exactly.

ineffective or not... Im sick of their liberal bashing corporate ass kissing bullshit. They lost the privilege of my support long ago. Screw the dlc.

[Totally Committed]

32. As long as there is a DLC, or an ideology present in our Party

even like the DLC, we are in mortal danger of losing our collective soul as a Party. I believe that sincerely.

[paineinthearse]

34. Let's put the DLC into context

When's the last time a member of the DLC helped your town or ward committee walk doors or phone bank?

[dolstein]

37. Let's put the left-wing into context

When was the last time the left-wing of the Democratic Party backed a winner in a presidential contest? When was the last time a left-wing candidate won an election South of the Mason-Dixon line that wasn't in a district that was over 50% African-American?

[paineinthearse]

40. Perhaps it is time for a change

My job, and those of thousands more of the former middle class, went offshore thanks to fast track trade treaties and korporatism.

A venture capital company will not underwrite a start-up these days unless its business plan states that manufacturing will be done in some third world country.

Manufacturing creates wealth, jobs and middle class prosperity. The DLC favors corporations and I will not support the DLC, its puppets in my state party or any of its candidates, ever.

[Totally Committed]

43. If A = B, and B = C, then, A = C.... Right?

The DLC (A) = Corporatism (B)

Corporatism (B) = Republican ideology (C)

then,

DLC (A) = Republican (C)

[dolstein]

48. Some of us would dispute that A = B

If you think that the DLC stands for corporatism, you obviously don't know enough about the DLC.

If you think that DLC Democrats are Republicans, you obviously don't know enough about the Republican Party.

[desi826]

68. Nice try dolstein

but you're DU's resident DLC'er, why don't you answer the above poster's question honestly?

Also, DU is not left wing.

The majority of people here believe in things a majority of the American public does as well.

Tough corporate laws and enforcement, civil rights, human rights, a woman's right to choose, stem cell research, economic populism, education, some form of health care for all americans, a clean environment, and a timetable to get the hell out of Iraq, to name a few.

These are all ideas supported by a MAJORITY of Americans,.

In fact, it is the DLC that is out of the mainstream of political thought on these issues right now, that's why they are so stuck.

They know what they *should* do, the polls are very clear about that. It's that they can't *bring* themselves to, which is the reason Washington Dems can't BUY a good poll right now.

Repubs are tanking and they STILL can get their numbers up.

This is because they persist on following the DLC way of doing things instead of the Democratic way.

The OP is right about the middle-left-right thing being moot.

It's all about doing what the American people want now.

Check the polls, they are no longer ambivalent or conflicted.
In large majorities, they know EXACTLY what they want.
All Dems have to do is get to steppin on the people's business.
Left or right don't have shit to do with it anymore.
Do what they want. It's very simple.
And if they don't, or won't, then it is time for them to go.

But DU is about right on the money on the issues.

Right about where the majority of the American public is.

So lay off.
Des

[Donna Zen]

35. The DLC can make this happen:

All they have to do is disband; but they won't. They will grab their corporate cash, schmooze the MSM, and push their candidates down the throats of the American public. Hey, it works for PNAC.

Why do we have a party within a party? If you want unity, you have to get to the number "one." One party representing the ideas and desires of America, not one party hiding a powerful cabal of special interests. And this triangulation thing, what does that portend? Talk left vote right, and the people get a few crumbs. That's the DLC's agenda, and if we are keep our democracy and win elections, that formula must go.

[paineinthearse]

41. DLC's dream ticket

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paineinthearse]

50. "anybody got a picture of Fidel and Che?"

:wtf:

Is it not possible to have a rational discussion without the DLC faction starting a flame war?

[paineinthearse]

55. oops - self-delete nt

[Dr Fate]

63. More like some combination of Dean, Clark , Gore, Feingold.

If you dont like DUers or progressive-leaning DEMs, then what are ya doing here?

[Q]

65. The DLC's hatred of the 'left' will be their undoing...

...and it won't be soon enough for many of us.

We're very tired of the DLC and their supporters labeling 'regular', working Democrats as some sort of fringe not worth taking seriously. But they're not the fringe at all....they represent the majority of Democrats and the DLC knows it.

The DLC hates the grassroots and rank and file Democrats...those that want to see the party return to supporting the working class, minorities and 'have-nots' instead of the ruling class and their industries.

There's no way the DLC can win in the end and they'll join the Neocons on the trashheap of history when the people finally wake up and kick their asses out the door.

[paineinthearse]

70. I still want to know what's between the LIEberman & Collins

Saw them on CSPAN2 last week, they were fawning all over each other.

:puke:

[LSK]

42. do DLCers still support being in Iraq?

And are we still in Iraq???

Then this will not go away.

[enough already]

46. Sorry Charlie

No more DLC. The fact these repuke bastards have imploded is NOT reason to go back to the DLC's failed "leadership".

[gulliver]

47. Like the Phoenix, the DLC needs to immolate itself.

Unlike the Phoenix, the DLC should remain ashes.

The DLC isn't particularly conservative or liberal. It is just mediocre, an exercise in group self-promotion.

It has been at best a "nothing" during this whole Bush/Rove/DeLay takeover fiasco. No one even knows that the DLC exists. Their endorsement would be poison to a candidate.

Let's just have DNC, grass roots, and party leaders. The idea behind the DLC isn't bad, but it has proven itself useless. It only worked for Clinton. Now it's a mistake.

[AntiCoup2K4]

52. No, not like the Phoenix.

The Phoenix rose from the ashes. When the DLC ceases to exist, it needs to be permanent!

[gulliver]

53. I agree. Reread the post!

[Le Taz Hot]

58. Sounds good to me

desolve the DLC and there MIGHT be a chance.

[Dr Fate]

61. To a degree, I'm willing to accept some of that.

I'd rather look at DEMs candidate by candidate, issue by issue as opposed to pitting the DLC vs. "Anti War leftists"

[Zodiak]

62. I agree with Dr. Fate

It is best to study the corporate wing of the Democratic party issue-by-issue and candidate-by-candidate. Target the DLC alone and you are sure to miss a few.

It takes one afternoon to study each and every vote of all of your Democratic senators. Make a list, and fill in the votes, and you will see for yourselves who is corporate. If you target the DLC, you are on to something...but it is more than that. Besides, the exercise will let you to cut through the rhetoric on both sides of the DU DLC wars (the liberals are mostly right, but sometimes aim their daggers too....liberally?).

I divide the DLC Senators into two groups according to a scoring system I devised. Most of them are corporate, conservative, Bush lap-dogs. I completely agree. However, there are a few that fall far afield from the "DLC-cluster" at the most extreme conservative end of the spectrum (12 of the 13 least progressive Dems are DLC, all of which voted for Bush more than 50% of the time when bill came to the floor for passage, some more "Republican" than some Republicans!). DLC members that are not-so-Bush-loving I call "opportunist" DLCers. I am not going to tell you who they are, but I will say that one of them is considered a sure-thing for the nomination in 2008.

If the DLC is exposed for their tactic of talk-left and vote-right, I am certain that the opportunist DLCers will jump ship and embrace the grassroots out of necessity. Opportunists are, by defnition, opportunists, after all. And that is a good thing, because they are the most visible DLCers for the most part (Leiberman aside). The least visible DLCers are the most damaging to the party platform, and we do not pay enough attention to them on DU. I won't name them, either, on this thread.

Also, I put DLC representatives on DU that use the language of bullies on ignore. It is only a few people, and I really do not believe that those who hurl invectives and talk like pseudo-intellectual bullies have anything constructive to say. Needless to say, reading DU has become far less stressful. Try it sometime.

[Pithy Cherub]

64. Please put the DLC out of it's misery... don't vote for them,

don't Volunteer for them and they certainly don't want your cash. They have *series* corporate donors for that. The DLC politicians have brand equity and patches like NASCAR.

Those leadership challendenged DLC Dems:dunce: who voted for the Iraq War need to own up to their incompetence on the subject, admit it and spend the next few years APOLOGIZING!

No time or pity for DLC (the corporate sponsored democrats). It is not moot! :nopity:

[Roland99]

66. Fvck the DLC. They are the reason why the Democratic party isn't cohesive!

Let *them* drop the Republican-lite facade and come *back* to the party.

[radio4progressives]

69. False Dichotomy Creates a False Analysis

and besides, the Neo Cons are not pissed that we went to war based on a pac of lies -

It was the Neo Cons who were the architects of invasion/occupation in the first place. And they're not pissed about the war at all.

They LOVE this war and want it to go on for decades if necessary.

So you're analysis is off target. The Myers appointment has upset them, and Bush's inability to affectuate certain goals and agenda items might be ticking them off..

But none of that really matters, as i can care less if the Neo Cons are ticked off or not. Their happiness or anger is completely irrelevant in the context of the horrific situation with our entire socio-economic conditions and consequences of a corrupt, fascists state and which ordinary American citizens are going to have to suffer decades to turn around, and at this time i'm not even sure that it's possible - because this isn't the END of the Bush Crime family the rise of the Neo-Cons, this is the end of the first year of Bush's second term - and NO THANKS TO THE DLC and the complacency of the MSM, we have THREE MORE YEARS (OR MORE) of these fascists thugs in power.

Patience?

Excuse me! THE WORLD CAN'T AFFORD TO WAIT - IMPEACHE NOW and REJECT THE DLC COMPLETELY. THEY ARE IN BED WITH THE BUSH CRIME FAMILY!

And always have been.

That includes the Clintons directly. Both Hillary and Bill.

[CrackpotAmerica]

71. Do a search of my articles. . .

I am not a crybaby and resent being called one.

DLC is bad mojo.