"Well, I just can't imagine Ronald Reagan doing something like that."

[Vickers]

That is going to be my response to any fundy right winger bullshit from here on out. I know there are some people you can talk to and try to reason with...I am talking about the True Believers, the Bush Is God types, you know the ones.

Funny thing, the idea for this was given to me by a former prosecutor for the Iran Contra scandal, Bruce Yannett, in this story about Tom Delay's shady bullshit tactics.

See, they may like George, but they ADORE Ronnie, and any chance I now have to show the DIFFERENCES in George and Ronnie, I will take advantage of:

- "Man, I just don't think Reagan would've condoned torture...sorry."

- "I bet Reagan would've overturned Roe Vs. Wade if he had control of the House, the Senate, AND the Supreme Court."

- "Reagan didn't grind his jaw like that."

etc. etc.

[leesa]

1. Even though I understand your motive, I don't support the deification of

the Criminal Reagan.

[annabanana]

3. the point is to use THEIR deification,

as deluded as it is, that is "where they're at"..

[Vickers]

4. I don't deify Reagan (or anyone). I'm playing on THEIR deification

of Ronnie.

Big difference. :P

[Lasher]

6. Good tactic.

But I don't know if I could hold my lunch down if I did anything to condone the 'Saint Ronnie of Reagan' myth. :puke:

Just for grins, here's a couple of web sites that tell the truth about him.

http://www.quickchange.com/reagan/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/thereaganyears/

[Lilsarah]

7. I have been doing that for a little while

It really works.

[newyawker99]

14. Hi Lilsarah!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[electropop]

2. Hey, thanks, useful tip!

I know they can see the differences between their god and their mascot.

[unrepuke]

5. I get it -- like playing Bob Boudelang. So their!!!1!1!

[SnowGoose]

9. "so their" *snarf*

Thanks for my first laugh of the day.

[jobycom]

8. I understand, but I still wouldn't praise Reagan

I'd as soon point out that Hitler would have done it better.

And Reagan would have condoned torture. He gave money to terrorists who were raping and killing American priests and nuns, and paying to train terrorists on assassination and murder techniques. I'm sure torture was mixed in there somewhere.

I understand your point, and it's a clever strategy, and maybe even effective, but I would not further the hagiography of the monster Reagan just to win debate points with a brain-dead Repub. Just my own preference. Despite everything, I don't see Bush as worse than Reagan in any way. The two administrations felt very similar.

[tabasco]

10. I concur. Reagan was a stooge for the corporations just like Bush.

Why propagate the myths? It simply reinforces their deluded beliefs.

Tell them the truth about all the corrupt republicans, including Reagan.

[Vickers]

13. Look, the folks I say this to would be hardcore KoolAiders

The myth of Reagan will NEVER be shot down for them.

I have already tried this on my brother, it seems to work!

[tabasco]

15. Tell 'em about St. Ronnie sending a birthday cake to Ayatollah ...

Khomeini in the shape of a key, to represent the key to his heart. Delivered by Ollie North (truth).

Tell 'em about St. Ronnie getting 300 Marines killed in Beirut for nothing and then hauling ass and invading GRENADA. Tell 'em St. Ronnie wouldn't allow barricades around the Marine barracks because it would project "weakness." (all true)

Tell 'em about St. Ronnie providing nerve agent and lots of other weapons to Saddam Hussein (true).

Tell 'em about St. Ronnie illegally selling weapons to Iran to fund death squads to overthrow a democratically elected government in Nicaragua (true). Thereby providing weapons to BOTH sides in a war. What lofty principles!!

Just some ammo if you decide to stop cutting these stupid assholes slack. I give 'em hell. The repugs will always have a new savior to fool these dummies, so it's best to FULLY CONVERT THEM with the truth.

[Vickers]

19. There are some folks I use that approach with

Believe me, I have absolutely no love for Ronnie...he was the catalyst for me becoming a Democrat (during the Iran Contra lie-fest).

When it comes to discussing politics, I use every tool at my disposal, and sometimes a sword is better than a scalpel. :toast:

[jobycom]

17. It won't work

It will just convince them, at best, that Bush failed, so they will seek out another Reagan. And since Reagan and Bush were the same, they will find another Bush.

Better to tell them the truth, tell them Clinton did everything they claimed they wanted done using our methods, and that both Reagan and Bush were imbeciles who impeded the success of this nation.

When I argue with Repubs, I link Bush and Reagan as bad presidents. That way, when Bush goes down, it shakes their confidence in Reagan, too.

[calmblueocean]

11. Smart.

Say what you will about Mr. ketchup-is-a-vegetable we-begin-bombing-in-five-minutes, Reagan wouldn't have put up with half the crap Bush has done to this country.

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Well, maybe...MAYBE he wouldn't have sat like a bump on a log

when told of passenger jets flying into skyscrapers, but just about everything else bu$h has gotten away with was Reagan's wet dream.

[tabasco]

16. See post #15 n/t

[jobycom]

18. Reagan did exactly that. Look up the Lebanon barracks bombing

Look up the number of terrorist attacks under Reagan. His only attempt at preventing them was to talk tough and to bomb Libya. His bombing of Libya led to an increase in terrorist bombings in Africa against our allies, and caused someone to blow a Pan Am 747 out of the sky.

Reagan did NOTHING better than Bush. Not one thing. He was just as stupid, just as corrupt, just as bloody, just as divisively partisan. He was more of a racist, but I don't see that as being better. If it weren't for the Reagan worshipers rewriting his history, he'd be the standard for failure for all presidents.

[calmblueocean]

21. We begin bombing in five minutes.

" His only attempt at preventing them was to talk tough and to bomb Libya."

Exactly. I don't disagree with you that Reagan was delusional and dangerous, but even his biggest cockups like Grenada weren't anywhere near the scale of Bush's. Reagan bombed Libya, but he didn't decide to invade and occupy it. And for what it's worth, Reagan wasn't as divisively partisan. He was ideologically rigid, but could also be self-effacing. Even Mondale laughed when Reagan jokingly said he wouldn't use his opponent's youth and inexperience against him. Bush, on the other hand, lumped Kerry in with Osama and Saddam as enemies of the state.

Reagan was the prototype of the modern rotten Republican, but they've improved on the model since he was around.

[jobycom]

23. Actually, I could argue that Bush has been a nicer person

Reagan was divisively partisan. He attacked liberals in every speech. He condemned pro-choicers and other liberals as the cause of all America's problems. He created terms like "welfare queen" to divide race as well as party, and blatantly used racism to win votes.

Bush isn't as racist. He's an ass, and he's got a subtle racism about him, as does his whole party, but Reagan was actively, aggresively racist, and he used race to win the South from the Democrats. As Rosalind Carter said, he made people comfortable with their prejudices.

As for cock-ups, he had troops all over the world. He may not have occupied other countries in person, but he encouraged Hussein in Iraq to fight Iran, and gave him weapons and training to do so, all the while he was selling Iran weapons to fight him back. Millions died in a war that almost halted several times, until Reagan gave both sides the means to carry on. He founded and trained the mujahadin in Afghanistan, including Usama bin Laden, rather than negotiating for peace. He founded wars in Central and South America, and had our CIA providing training for hit squads to terrorize Central America, to prevent peace.

He occupied a lot of countries, just not as overtly as Bush. And he was every bit as evil. Every bit. As a person, he was worse. Bush is passively evil, but Reagan woke up each morning looking for someone else to kill. He was a better script reader--that's about all I can say nice about him.

[sandnsea]

24. All true

But better to have to live with one St. Ronnie than the Bush Dynasty. I say if using St. Ronnie makes people wise up to King George, go for it. We can rip apart Reaganism later, especially with Bush as an example of how bad Reagan's policies really are.

[Z_I_Peevey]

20. As a way to reach certain folks,

I think it's brilliant. To be used sparingly, of course.

[AspenRose]

22. Actually this has been my latest tactic in dealing with my husband (R)

He'll spout off some RW crap that isn't true...something he heard on reich wing radio...

and I'll just say, "well, sweetheart, Ronald Reagan said "Trust but Verify." If you know that to be true, fine, but perhaps you should research your information based on the historical lack of credibility from your sources."

He's leaving me alone (for now). Especially since he knows the next time he says something, I will be armed to the teeth with FACTS.