I have made up my mind about Hillary Clinton

[CrackpotAmerica]

I have decided not to vote for her in the primaries. Further, should she win, I will not let my fear of "throwing my vote away" deter me from not voting for her.

Honestly, I feel that Mrs. Clinton is more concerned about Mrs. Clinton than anything else these days. Her slow stroll toward the middle is proof enough for me that she will not be sufficient to the great task of reversing the horrid devastation caused by George W. Bush.

Lastly, I am still a huge Kerry fan, but Mr. Gore has completely succeeded in recapturing my respect and admiration for him. I am hopeful that either Mr. Kerry or Mr. Gore decide to run. Also, should one win the primary, I think they would make a great Prez/VP team!

Sorry, Hillary, I'm just not buying it.

:)

[Vincardog]

1. No Hillary and NO to any other DLC shill we have to have someone Radical

a real Democrat

[ladjf]

11. You have spoken for me.

[DemDogs]

47. And for me

This is a fool's choice. If we don't like her, think about it, how is she ever going to win?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CrackpotAmerica]

23. ^^ who got mad?

[AntiFascist]

45. Exactly! Well maybe not explicitely radical, but radical change is needed

Now how do we counter the DLC message that Hillary has the vast support of all Democrats?

[MrBenchley]

64. Tee hee hee....

Like who? Hackett (more conservative than Hillary)?

It's hilarious to hear that Hillary Clinton isn't a real Democrat.

[Vincardog]

68. What about Ralph Nader?

[Andromeda]

72. Been there, done that...

Besides, Nader isn't a Democrat.

[MrBenchley]

94. Fuck Ralph Nader and the horse he rode in on....

That son of a bitch gave us this drunk in the first place.

[LynneSin]

83. So I guess that means you didn't vote for Kerry in 2004

I mean, he is DLC

Look it up - it's true!

[AX10]

2. Wes Clark, Al Gore, Howard Dean.

[IndianaGreen]

24. All three of them far preferable to Hillary and Clintonian corruption!

Hillary could have been great, but she chose to follow her husband on the sleaze path.

[XemaSab]

31. word

Gore/Clark
Gore/Dean
Dean/Clark
Clark/Dean

to which I add:

Gore/Boxer
Gore/Conyers
Dean/Boxer
Dean/Conyers
Clark/Boxer
Clark/Conyers
Boxer/Conyers
Boxer/Clark
Conyers/Boxer

ad infinitum...

[BigYawn]

54. Wes Clark is closer to center than left IMO

[Clark2008]

77. Apparently you don't know much about him.

Read his old position papers - then get back to me.

http://clark04.com/issues/

The good thing about Clark is that he's more liberal than Dean, but people - particularly the mushy middle - perceive him as a moderate and probably would vote for him.

Besides, he is beholden to no special interest groups, which, as Martha Stewart would say, is a very good thing.

[harlinchi]

92. Yaaaay! Go Clark! n/t

[sui generis]

3. I'm afraid I'm right there with you

I want an open progressive and an open liberal in office, not someone who is hedging her bets.

I don't think of myself as the far left or the fringe by any means, yet I don't think from what I've seen so far that Senator Clinton speaks for the Democratic base.

We need boldness, real leadership, and extraordinary principle. If "taking a slow stroll" is an example of leadership and principle, it's not the kind I want.

I'll give it a bit, but that's my opinion today.

[ClassWarrior]

4. Who cares? A lot can happen between now and then. For instance...

...the 2006 election!! Hello?? Can we focus please?

NGU.

[CrackpotAmerica]

5. I am focused. . .

I want to be the first at my voting dist. to Vote Santorum out!

[ClassWarrior]

65. Now that'll be a rare pleasure. I get to...

...help my neighbors give F. Jim Sensenbrenner the boot.

NGU.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

80. If you can do that,

you will garner much love from around the country. Sensenbrenner is a turd of the nastiest sort. His proposal to force people to become police informants at pain of arrest and prosecution was one of the most nakedly fascist things I've seen anyone attempt.

What an un-American sleazebag!

[electropop]

6. I can't support her in the primaries.

I would feel forced to in the general election, because I can't in good conscience contribute to any possibility of another Republican Regime.

There are others I would strongly prefer. Gore would be pretty good. The toughest, smartest, and most publicly minded that I see out there right now are Boxer and Conyers.

I can't forget that neither Gore nor Kerry stood up in the Congress to defend our votes. Gore repeatedly gagged members of the Congressional Black Caucus who stood to contest the appointment of Bush by the Supreme Cronies. He had at least fought an extended legal battle before that, so he gets some of my faith. Kerry skipped out on the day they certified the vote, following an immediate concession (despite obvious evidence of massive fraud and voter suppression). He has made quiet, low-effort low-cost half-hearted efforts since, but it's way too little and too late.

Boxer and Conyers both stood up to defend our votes on January 6th, and for showing the American people that respect, they have earned my vote, should either or both choose to run (they would make a dream ticket). Their courage to take that lonely stand, makes them worthy champions against the Fascists. Conyers has repeatedly spit in the face of the enemy: he has held hearings on TV on controversial issues, despite extensive efforts to suppress him.

Boxer and Conyers are unafraid that Frist will Anthrax them again. They are unafraid of being called "librul" or all sorts of other hurtful names. They have demonstrated they have what it takes.

[karynnj]

25. Gore and Kerry both acted in honorable ways

When the SC ruled in Bush's favor it was over. Gore graciously conceded and asked the Senate not to put the country back into the chaos of a disputted election. Kerry had no proof then and none today that proves that he won. The black caucus and Boxer did what they did mainly to bring attention to the problems in the election process. Supposedly the BCC asked Kerry not to be there. He was in Iraq - certainly not on holiday. This spared him either a pianful vote against himself or a vote that would take the focus off the real problems and put it onto Kerry.

[electropop]

67. I think the chaos of a disputed election

would have been pretty minor compared to the thousands of deaths caused by allowing the Fascists to take power. And putting the focus on Gore or Kerry would have been personally uncomfortable perhaps, but it would have forced America to look at our disastrous election system. We need somebody who is not afraid of a little name-calling. Until we have a candidate who will mercilessly and loudly fight election theft, we will have an Amerika descending deeper and deeper into Fascism, murder, and misery.

[CrackpotAmerica]

7. I think that we need someone as progressive as Gore or Kerry to

Pull the nation back into balance.

[Lena inRI]

8. I feel the same toward Hillary but my. . .

attention and admiration go toward

Wesley Clark/Barbara Boxer 2008

[CrackpotAmerica]

10. I dig Boxer too!

But I think that the moderate Republicans would not get on board with her.

Shame.

[Vincardog]

16. WE do not need the Republicans we need the Democrats

to STAND UP and lead. PUT THE PEOPLE FIRST. Don't forget that there are a lot more Democrats than Republicans. The Democratic Party went wrong when it deserted the People and started courting Businesses.

W have to return to a government By Of and For THE PEOPLE.

Screw 'Moderates' support Radical Progressives.

Moderates are what got us here. When offered a choice between a real republican and a fake one the people will choose the real republican. We have to offer them the choice between a real Republican and a Real DEMOCRAT. The Real Democrat will win.

[Lena inRI]

18. After 3 more Bush years. . .

they'll be begging for progressives like Clark and Boxer . . .anyway you look at these two admirable people, their ongoing public service speaks for itself. . . and irresistible, IMHO.
:kick:

[hippiechick]

9. I agree with you

n/t

[madrchsod]

no hillary please!

no more young republican converts . i want a democrat that was born a democrat. someone who`s family were hard working democrats.....maybe edwards? edwards -clark sounds real good to me...

[Democrat 4 Ever]

12. Well, I'll vote twice for her to make up for yours. She is smart,

savvy, works for issues that are important to me and I feel she will change her position on the war and demand a withdrawal of troops. I don't care about the baggage she brings from the Big Dog years (don't they seem like a lovely dream after five years of Chimpy?), has a history of taking on monumental tasks and issues without shirking. Despite some of her votes in the past, I believe she would be an excellent candidate. If we are waiting for the PERFECT candidate without any past votes, positions or beliefs that upset us then we are going to go lacking. Hillary is not perfect but unlike any of the repugs I believe she is capable of critical thinking, reversing, refining or improving her opinions based on new information. In other words she can grow. (Unlike the "promise" of Harriet Meirs not changing her mind for the next 30 years!)

That said, unless the Dems nominate Hitler I will support any candidate against ANY republican running. Love Kerry, Edwards, Gore, Clinton, could and would support any and all on the ticket. The Democratic Party is blessed and fortunate to have a whole range of candidates to work with. Let the fun begin. We have got to get these assholes out of office but to start narrowing our choice of candidates three years out seems a little like shooting ourselves in the foot.

[CrackpotAmerica]

15. I respect your opinion.

I just see more "politics" in her than I would like to. And with that, the speculation of her nomination scares me a little bit.

I understand why people love her. I just disagree.

:)

[GrpCaptMandrake]

81. With all due respect,

we're going to get nowhere running senators for president. It's historically a bad move.

American RealPolitik favors governors. To that end, I suggest Mark Warner of Virginia, with Wes Clark, Tom Vilsack or Brian Schweitzer as a running mate.

Hillary is presidential poison. She simply cannot win.

As a democrat, one may not be concerned with her "baggage," but the Repigs certainly are. That's why the RWM and Phlush and Hannity-job and O'Lielly keep her in the spotlight. They YEARN for her to run. They have the kind of pleasant, happy dreams you don't want to wake up from over a Hillary candidacy. They already have the infrastructure in place to stomp her into a forgotten piece of political trivia. She wanted the Senate. The Senate is where she needs to stay.

[Ferret Annica]

14. I agree

Hillary is not the answer. All the Clintons are doing is borrowing a page from the Bush crime syndicate play book in pushing to get the presidency back into the family possession again.

Bill was underwhelming as a POTUS, I don't want to see how he does as Hil's First Lady (chaser) as a consequence.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

20. What planet are your from Ferret Mike? Clinton underwhelming

as POTUS? Your joking, right? What didn't you like? The peace or the posterity?

And I think it is a silly using an argument of a "family" syndicate to keep a qualified person from having a job. I don't want Hillary (or any other candidate) to get the job because she is married to Bill, I think she would be an excellent president. (I am SO tired of having a stupidity, meanness, cronyism and a bunch of thugs in the White House.)

Every national poll being done at this time has Hillary leading the pack of potential candidates - I do not think we can ignore that fact. Does it mean she is an automatic shoo in for the nomination? No, of course not. But to write her off because of who she married, voted in the past, etc. is counterproductive. I am not so tied into Hillary I would ignore other candidates, was just taking the position not to rule ANY good Dems out right now.

[Ferret Annica]

27. Planet Earth First! that's which one.

I have been a Green for quite some time now and did not vote either time for Clinton, or the Repug candidates. I have never liked Bill Clinton or trusted him. He proved to be too self serving and lacked discipline and a fire in his belly for many political battles important to a great many people.

I don't care really what the polls say in 2005. I tentatively support Kerry for the nomination and the job of POTUS. He is quite a bit more conservative then I am, and expresses too many hawkish views that he needs to rethink, but I would trust him with the job after watching him this last election.

If you want to dig into specifics why I don't like Bill Clinton, I most certainly would be happy to oblige. I have posted in political forums on line many years in many places on the Internet, so with all due respect don't look at that silly post count feature and judge how deeply I know the topic by that.

I am also a local forest activist, and I deal in political efficacy daily in real time. That's my planet, but thanks for caring to inquire about my Milky Way galactic grid coordinates anyway.

[elsiesummers]

28. Bill was a great president, less pleased with Hillary

I really don't find Hillary an attractive politician - mainly because she has been forced into macho positions to prove that a woman is up to the job. I think it's an unfortunate result of sexism in our political climate. Of course I would support her in a general election.

That said, I'm so tired of remarks suggesting Bill was not a good president. Except for his ridiculous political miscalculation, arrogance, and lack of paranoia regarding Monica, he was A+. I think he set a tone for our nation of spreading good will and positive vibes that made many changes that are not evident in legislation, but still last in our culture. The most obvious I see today are (1) the great strides Gays have made since 1992 (does anyone think that if Bush Junior was pres in 92 we would ever have had a culture in which "Will and Grace" became a tv show? Gays have gained a level of cultural acceptance that simply would not have happened without Bill. No they still don't have civil unions, but the discussion would not even be on the table without Bill.

Second - the ongoing public service ads of Phillip Morris against smoking and the cultural move against the acceptance of cigarette smoking as ok. Can you imagine where smoking and cigarette sales would be if a Republican had been president in 90's? The law suits against tobacco companies would have been stopped behind the scenes.

Third, would Bush have ever even mentioned his unfunded mandate about providing AIDS drugs to Africa if he was following a Republican president?

We wouldn't pay attention to Harriet Miers either, because Roe would already be overturned and the battle of the Supreme Court already lost.

Sometimes I think those Bill Clinton bashers need to take a good look at all the norms we take for granted today that might not exist, about all the issues that Bill Clinton kept on the table or forced onto the table (even if the battles haven't been won) and try to imagine how vastly different our world would be if we'd had a Republican president in the 90's.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShrewdLiberal]

19. She got my vote for the Senate and will for president

Hillary Clinton was a major factor in saving the Niagara Falls Air Base here in western New York. People here love her on both sides of the isle. She has been a very effective senator, and has a splendid record to run on. She knows how to articulate her positions better than any of the Democrats who will be in the primary battles.

John Kerry is a bum. He's not a fighter. He's a pretender. He let the criminals steal the election just like that other loser Al Gore. The Clintons both know how to fight and win. Just win, baby! They already have the gloves off and are prepairing for the battles to come. They know what's coming because they've been there before. They're survivors.

I will never cast another vote for Gore or for Kerry. They both had their chances and surrendered. They will never win the primary against Hillary Clinton in New York. She will wipe the floor with both of them.

As for some Dems not casting their votes for her, so be it. She will be so articulate and convincing to the masses that she will pick up Independents like myself. I am farely moderate. My family members are Republicans and moderate Independents. Believe it or not, they like Hillary Clinton a lot. My grandmother, a Republican, has told me time and again how her friends at a senior citizens' center, many who are Republicans, are ready to vote for Hillary Clinton. They are ready for a woman to be president. They understand the successes of the Clinton presidency and are disgusted with the Bush presidency.

People who hate Hillary will always hate her. People who are willing to give her a chance, will be the ones she wins over. I think Bill Cinton is still very beloved. People remember the good times from his presidency. Most sane people want those times back, and they know Bill Clinton will be right behind Hillary. He'll make the greatest presidential advisor in the history of America. If she runs for president, she will have the greatest political mind of the latter half of the twentieth century right there next to her.

I know I'm in the minority here at D.U. But someone has to speak up for the silent Hillary backers here so I did. If I rubbed anyone the wrong way, I appologize. But it's just the way I see it.

[bgb217]

21. I think that....

Some of this "dissent among the Dems" is unsettling. Like someone else said, I'm voting Democratic unless we nominate Hitler. I think all the names of the potentials aren't perfect, and Hillary has a lot of flaws, but I personally think she has the inner potential to be a very progressive leader, and would distance herself from a lot of the more moderate positions she's been taking, etc.... Be it Kerry, Gore, Clark, Clinton, Boxer (my personal favorite, Kerry-Boxer, but I'm realistic), any of them would be worlds better than Shrub's reign of terror.

[CrackpotAmerica]

22. Slow Down With the Word "Dissent"

First off, she does not embody the whole party.

Second, she is not the Prez.

Last, I am not prone to jump on wagons just because there is a (D) associated with it.

Thanks for your thoughtful opinion, though.

:)

[Andromeda]

56. No, crackpot, but neither do you embody,

the average American. Most Democrats in America are somewhere in the middle politically. Most don't visit DU or have time to spend posting comments on a computer. They have jobs, children in school, possibly an aging mother or father and a home mortgage.

Most of America is geared to the center, Republican or Democrat. This may come as a shock to you but the majority of people don't care about politics.

Voting for a Democrat is NOT jumping on a bandwagon; it's voting for a person who will best represent the average American and who is concerned about the issues of the of the working class.

Hillary may or may not run, but if she does and wins the primary, I will vote for her.

[CrackpotAmerica]

60. So, What, Do You Think That I Am

sitting in a roadside ditch, smashing tin cans with a frying pan for a liviving?

lol

[Andromeda]

71. Well, that explains a lot of things...

How does it pay?

Just kidding. :)

[Andromeda]

76. Welcome to DU, Shrewd...

:hi: The Clintons DO know how to fight and win.

For the most part, I believe that the Clintons have more people who love them than hate them. At any rate, there is no middle ground when it comes to the Clintons: you either love 'em or hate 'em.

If Hillary does run and win, it would be historical beyond anything else I can think of.

We would get Bill Clinton back in the White House!

Yaaaaaaay!!!

[Clark2008]

78. Not in the South or mid-West, she won't.

And that is the problem.

I want a candidate who can flip a couple of purple states over into the blue column. Hillary ain't it.

[saddemocrat]

26. I would vote for her...

I would vote for her in a heartbeat. There isn't a single politician that doesn't have their own interests at heart first and foremost...that's...politics. Hillary is intelligent and could get a lot of great things done. Go Universal Healthcare! Go Hillary!

If she gets elected I'll petition to have my username changed to happydemocrat

just my .02

kris

[CrackpotAmerica]

41. It's really shameful, is it not? NT.

[Andromeda]

57. I hope you get the chance,

to change your username, saddemocrat. I really think you will. :)

[formernaderite]

29. The repubs win by r unning right wingers....not mainstream

candidates. right wing lite...is a sham and the voters know it. I want a progressive to run on a progressive populist platform. Heck, everything else they've tried has failed.

[Goldeneye]

30. Tell me what specifically makes Hillary so bad

that you'd rather have 4 more years of republican leadership than vote for her? If everyone thought this way, the democrats would never win again. I don't give a rats ass what Hillary is doing. I don't care if she shaves her head and challenges Zell Miller to a dual, I'll vote for her before I let another republican in power.

[AntiCoup2K4]

32. What specifically makes Hillary bad is what's made the last 4 years bad.

The DLC is sold out to PNAC and the pro coprporate, pro neocon, anti-American votes from Hillary (among others) have enabled Bush to get away with this shit.

If you vote for ANYONE who wishes to continue the current Imperialism, you are voting for that fascist agenda regardless of whether they call themselves "Democrat" or "Republican".

[Goldeneye]

53. yeah, yeah...

Hillary is just like Bush. Whatever.

[NoPasaran]

70. She turned me into a newt!

[laugle]

74. I say a vote for Hillary is a vote for Bill,

I want dirty little Billy back in the White House. Maybe he could be VP. Imagine all the good he could do in the middle east if she appointed him a special envoy?

[AntiCoup2K4]

75. Don't ask a question if you're going to ignore the answer

The DLC'ers are part of the neocon agenda, therefore they can not be expected to fix the problem.

[Goldeneye]

82. I didn't ignore your question.

I just thought your point was crap. There is no comparison between Hillary and the neocons. None. No democrat wanted to invade Iraq. Not one of them. Everyone who actively worked to get us into Iraq was a Neocon. The signatories of the PNAC? All neocons. The one's putting together bullshit evidence? Neocons. The ones awarding no-bid contracts? Neocons. The one's who ignored the rules of IWR and invaded Iraq? Neocons. The one's who kicked inspectors out of Iraq? Neocons.

Was Hillary involved in any of these things?

Now think about these questions: Do the neocons sign onto election reform legislation? Do they care about universal healthcare? Do they vote for minimum wage increases? Do they fight SS privatization? Do they vote against drilling in ANWR?

You throw all this crap together in one bundle and act like it means something. DLC doesn't mean Neocon. The DLC is a group of conservative democrats who are hawkish and who have a different idea for getting the democrats back in power. You can call them hawks if you want to, but don't call them neocons. There is no comparison. You can say they won't fix the problem because they are too conservative, but don't say it's because they are neocons, because they are NOT neocons.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sendero]

34. Peoria..

... is not NY and the swing voters will not vote for Hillary Clinton period end of story.

The right base would be energized by her like no other Dem could energize.

And finally, on the issues she is weak all around. She seems to have no core, one minute she's this way, the next she's that. She wants to be everything to everyone and she turns out being nothing to anyone.

If she's nominated I'll probably vote for her. But among all of the current potential nominees being bandied about, she is easily my least favorite.

[howmad1]

36. Look, I'm no fan of Hillary.

But according to well placed sources in Washington, she is the rethuglicans worst nightmare. Let's hope the jerks in Peoria will be fed up enough to take a close look at her record. Frankly, my money is on Clark, but please, let's not put Hillary down as a "for sure" loser. Seems in early 1994, Bill Clinton did not have a prayer of becoming president.

[sendero]

37. Persoanlly..

.... there is so much emotion surrounding the Clintons, that is the problem. Nobody is going to look at her objectively.

Secondly, I'd be interested in hearing of her vaunted "record". Because for the life of me I can't think of a single outstanding achievement on her part.

But I can think of a monumental failure, the health-care plan of the early 90s.

[howmad1]

43. Well, to begin with, she won the senate election in NY.

That monumental failure you speak of was the result of rethuglicans fighting her tooth and nail. Imagine if her health-care plan were in effect today. She would be considered a champion for the little guy. BTW, ask any New Yorker about her record. They idolize her for what she has done for NY.

[sendero]

50. We've already covered NY..

.... and there is something you should understand. Most of the country could care less if NY and California broke off and floated away.

I'm not saying that is my sentiment, but really, NY is about as representative of this country as I am of the easter bunny.

[bobbieinok]

38. 1992

[CrackpotAmerica]

40. I'm not an A**hole, so you know,

Nor do I respect the opinion of someone who would assume that I am. Last, to lack the wit to avoid using profanity in a civil debate speaks volumes of you.

Good luck with that!

[CrackpotAmerica]

62. Thanks Moderator! Please delete my response to it as well.

The "I am not an A**hole"


Thx!

[Scout1071]

44. So, anyone who doesn't vote for your candidate is an asshole?

Nice. If that's the case, then count me as an asshole, because I'm not voting for her. Period. And there are millions like me. So don't fucking blame it on me if you put her lame ass on the ticket. I'm warning you 3 years in advance you will lose my vote.

Stick around for a bit bud....you'll see that Hillary has very little support around these parts. The only people talking about Hillary being the candidate are the Repugs and the MSM. I sure as hell don't know any Dems who want to vote for her. She's not a Democrat. She's Republican Lite. And she will not get my vote.

[howmad1]

46. To begin with, she is NOT my candidate. See my avatar.

I am so tired with the yada, yada, yada about Hillary. We still have three years to go before the presidential election but you people must enjoy getting your shorts in a knot about Hillary. I stand by my remark about any self proclaimed "democrat" not voting for a democrat in a presidential election is an asshole. I suppose you people enjoy having rethuglican administrations to bitch about.

God help us if there are "millions" like you. If that be the case, the democratic party is finished. BTW, I'll take a lame ass democrat over any rethuglican, anytime.

[Scout1071]

49. Who are you to tell me how a "real" democrat votes?

And calling your fellow DU'ers assholes isn't going to make you a lot of friends. But let me guess...you probably didn't come here for any of that, did you?

[CrackpotAmerica]

59. HERE HERE

Also, does that political attitude not ring a bell?

[Hippo_Tron]

35. If it's a choice between Presidnet Clinton and President Brownback

Which at this point seems very possible considering that Brownback might be the only one who can appease the religious WRONG after chimpy pissed them off with Roberts and Miers.

Well if it ever gets to that point I may have to kill myself. Should I chose to live, I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary. And by hold my nose I mean, using a clip.

[AJH032]

39. I'm not in love with a Hillary nomination, BUT

I would sure love to be able to turn on the news and hear about a President Clinton again.

What can I say, I'm a Bill Clinton fan, even though I disagree with him on one or two things.

[cwydro]

42. she may well be for Hillary

and I think all politicians are for themselves above all...but her health care interests are what captured me before...so many people have no insurance and that is a crime. (And I do, by the way).

[CrackpotAmerica]

48. I just got Insurance for the first time in about 10 years.

Tuesday is DENTIST DAY now!

:)

[howmad1]

51. And what body part did you have to give for it?

An arm, leg, or both? Too bad we don't have Hillarys' health care plan in effect today.

[CrackpotAmerica]

63. My wife got a teaching job.

Note that I was not insured back in 1995, either.

I am a strong proponent of socialized medicine; however, Mrs. Clinton, or even God himself would be successful at implementing such a logical notion in my lifetime.

[An Unabashed Atheist]

52. Grand Theft Auto

I oppose Hillary because of her fascistic opposition to the Grand Theft Auto game. I hate censorship.

[Andromeda]

73. Fascistic opposition?

Hillary's a fascist because she opposes the Grand Theft Auto game?

I think fascists play Grand Theft Auto. In fact, I'll bet Bush plays it--Cheney too.

[An Unabashed Atheist]

79. Fascists

I consider censorship-advocates to be fascistic.

Anybody that says, "I disapprove of that game, therefore YOU cannot enjoy it," is a fascist in my book.

Censorship is NEVER appropriate.

[Andromeda]

55. Okay, Crackpot...

I'm just so sick of all these "I hate Hillary threads."

I'm not going to lecture you and tell you that you will be throwing your vote away if you don't vote for Hillary. I just don't care.

BUT, if you vote for a Republican instead of a Democrat in 2008, you WILL be throwing your vote away, regardless of who the Democratic nominee is.

We don't know who's going to run yet so why don't we just wait and see?

[CrackpotAmerica]

58. I agree with that.

I would never vote Republican, by the way!

[cwydro]

69. yeah, I hear you

Andromeda

[CrackpotAmerica]

61. I feel I stirred up a hornet's nest here.

Thanks to everyone for their comments, whether in support or opposing my opinion.
I love to hear everyone's thoughts.
:)

[savemefromdumbya]

66. long time til 2008

however at this rate there may not be ANY elections!!!!

[LynneSin]

84. Blah Blah Blah here we go again my vote is so important I'll keep repukes

in office if I have to just to prove my point

Been there, read that, keep the cars moving nothing to see here.

I agree halfheartedly about not supporting Hillary Clinton in the primaries. I too am not keen on her and I feel that there are so many more qualified candidates that I'll stick around to see if there is a better candidate I can support and then I'll go out there 110% to support him/her.

But like I did in 2004 with my support of Howard Dean - if my candidate doesn't get the nomination then it's time for me to get behind the person that does. Because as important as getting out of this war is for me, so is getting healthcare, choice, education and a host of other important issues that have been sorely neglected these past 8 years. We are now 1 vote away from having RoeVWade overturned. Sorry, my vote is way to important to risk my future on another 4 years of republican rule

[mtnsnake]

85. If Hillary had run in 2004 instead of Kerry

we'd most likely be looking at President Clinton right now, instead of President Jackass.

She sure as hell wouldn't have made the ATROCIOUS campaign blunders that your man, John Kerry, made throughout that pathetic campaign of his. She would've mopped up the floor with the chimp had she taken him on. For that matter, ANYONE should've mopped up the floor with that imbecile, but no, John Kerry let himself get swept under the carpet without a fight. When it comes to campaigning for the presidency, give me Hillary any day of the week over another John Kerry!

She's an excellent senator, she's incredibly intelligent, she's well-spoken, she's as shrewd as they get, and she is a winner. She might not be my very first choice if I had to pick right now, but I sure would feel a lot more confident about HER restoring the the presidency to the Democrats than many of our other candidates, especially the last loser we had run for us.

[Clarkie1]

86. Are you kidding?

There is no way a woman would have been elected post-9/11 at the time of the election.

It's not the way things should be or should have been, but GET REAL!

[mtnsnake]

87. Do I look like I'm kidding?

I'm confident that anyone that could've run a B+ campaign would've defeated Bush after his dismal first term, war or no war, including Hillary Clinton. For you to say with such authority that no woman would've been elected post-9/11 is a little pre-judgmental, considering she didn't get the chance to show you what she could do against brat-boy.

[Clarkie1]

88. Bush won the election because he was a cowboy fighting them terror-ists.

He won the election with his carefully nurtured tough-guy image; that's what America voted for, and the fight on terrorism was the #1 issue. Do you seriously think America was about to elect ANY woman president for the first time during "wartime" just a few years after "a new generation's Pearl Harbor?"

:eyes:

Not even a cowgirl could have won.

And no, I'm not kidding.

:-)

[sepia_steel]

89. I feel that Mrs. Clinton is more concerned about Mrs. Clinton than

anything."

i feel that way, too. i will vote against her in the primaries. As for a third party vote, it depends on who's running. If I feel I have to vore for Hillary, then I will.

[Clarkie1]

90. Bingo. n/t

[leetrisck]

91. I will support Hillary Clinton

if she runs.

[kurth]

93. People like Bill, but not his wife

It's a fact that Hillary Clinton has been badly mistreated by the right wing propaganda machine, starting with the Hillarycare debacle. However, the sad reality is she won't stand a chance among the Red States electorate, where Bill Clinton still enjoys widespread popularity.