They aren't all Bastards. Let's build consensus and GET OUR COUNTRY BACK.

[Tigress DEM]

Got my few minutes with Mike Malloy from Air America and now I want to hear from you guys....

I think that there are people in every party who care enough to put themselves on the line. Themselves on the line, not just send their butler or maid or someone else's kid.

Many of these people are the soldiers who go not for the pRes or for the military as much as for their own sense of being there for their comrades who are stuck with no way out. They are beginning to hear that those of us who want this unjust war ended don't hate or blame the boots on the ground as much as the administration who got them into this war based on lies.

In every walk of life there are people of honor who respect the truth. These people are you and me and every sane person in America who is looking at this administration and shaking their heads.

It's everyone who stopped driniking the koolaid and have started to go to the internet and find out the truth. There are some TRUE Christians who have been uncovering the lies and go to bed sobbing because the man they thought they elected in good faith has turned out to be someone who allows little children to die because they are poor and/or black/muslim - take your pick.

They are our allies. That is a good thing. We need to remember 2 things and promote a Common Sense Agenda. Add items as needed. I'm starting with 7.

We need to remember that:

1) DEMS are the only party within striking distance to get this corrupt administration out of office. We have the opportunity and responsibility to turn the country around and get it going in the direction of sanity and freedom again. We can't adopt Bush-Co's go it alone arrogance. We need to build consensus.

2) WE need a Common Sense Agenda. Something ALL sane AMERICANS can get behind regardless of party ties. We need to get places like DU ad Air America to promote this and to bring everyone together because the "other side" logs in or listens. You know they do. DU has had posts with 30 year Republicans burning their party registration with disgust over how they have been betrayed.

Here's my Common Sense Agenda (What's YOURS?)

1) These war criminals and their associates must get prosecuted to the full extent of the law. WE THE PEOPLE need to get out to our Capitals on NOV 2 in record numbers, 1/2 a million in every state on Nov 2, and WE MUST DEMAND OUR RIGHT TO IMPEACH all these Bozos til we get down to Harry Reid as interm president. Harry won't pardon the crime family. (There are reported to be 22 folders for indictments.)

2) WE MUST HAVE Transparrent Elections. Every vote counted. No votes turned away by those in power. Verification of votes MUST be the law AND Enforceable.

3) Our Bill of Rights MUST be restored. And all the shady deals and laws that have been forged against our Bill of Rights MUST be revealed to the public en masse.

4) Proof there is a lack of COMPETENCY to do the job at the national level IS enough to sink a Presidential Appointment ( . )

5) NO MORE Torture in AMERICA's name. Ever, ever, ever again.

6) Campaign Finance reform. 10 national debates on the ISSUES - decided by the voters - televised. Additionally 1 stump, per state, per candidate on the issues. Perfect cost containment. Stupid candidates need not apply.

7) NO MORE going to WAR without a public referrendum. If the Congress can't be trusted, then we'll have to put these things to a vote.

[Tigress DEM]

1. Whoever did the rec, Thank You!

[snowbear]

2. Thank you Tigress Dem~

What a wonderfully thoughtful and caring post! :hug:

[Tigress DEM]

5. I feel the love!

You guys make me feel like I can keep up this fight. Some days it feels like DEMS will tear each other apart, not to even think of building any consensus with other parties.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. You were wonderful kid

by the way

As to puting my hiney on the line, already there....

[Tigress DEM]

7. Come home safe, Nadinbrzezinski!

My son is draft age and tried very hard to get in. I got what I prayed for and he didn't get in, but I can't look Cindy Sheehan in the face.

I tear up and get a knot in my throat when I think of people having to put their lives on the line for this war that isn't helping anyone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. No no I am not over there, over here

you see being on the line does not just mean doing it in uniform, it is just that I have been very vocal since at least 2001 against this regime, that is what I mean

:-)

And trust me Cindy is putting her life on the line as well. There are good people across this country who are

[Tigress DEM]

15. Boots on the ground here or there is tough stuff.

I was worried more early on because there was absolutely such a lock down on the press. Even if the coverage is minimal, I still feel safer since we aren't being entirely glossed over.

I worried that I would get attention for my over the top reactions to injustice. I told quite a few rethugs to do their job and quit focusing on something one time and I think I sent a letter to one of the big guys. I sweated it out for a bit, then realized, they probably get a lot of this kind of mail.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I 'd like to get a T-Shirt that reads

look I was against this war when it wasn't popular....

Another one'

I hated bush when it wasn't popular (never mind I actually feel sorry for the puppet)

Things like that

[Tigress DEM]

18. I know some Nuns...

they are always protesting at the same spot every Wednesday... So on Nov 2, I'll go and join them.

Took the day off because I thought there would be huge protests at the capital, can't find any.

So I will go with the group of Nuns that has been protesting war since my son was less than 3 years old.. he's 23 now. It wasn't popular before. I don't even know if it's popular yet. It's just that a lot of people realize it's the right thing to do, especially if you're on the left.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Good for you

Me, I have no idea what I will do on the 2nd, since own the bidness and this is what I do... it is only me.

Who knows I may try my hand at a political toon


;-)

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. I'm down with that agenda!

Common sense is always easier after listening to Mike Malloy, isn't it?

Of course I'll be happy when XM takes his show off of tape delay. My brain gets going to the point where it's impossible to sleep at 1:00 AM when the show's done.

[Tigress DEM]

9. Power to the People!

Sometimes. He was on a jump on the bad guys roll tonight and I didn't think he'd let me in. I held for nearly 4 hours to get my 2 cents in.

I think I'll send him emails from now on and just listen.

I've done it twice and part of me wanted to ask if all the other callers held as long. Except that he was promoting open lines even while I was holding.

[sepia_steel]

6. As easy as it is to categorize,

I draw a distinction between 'real' Republicans, Neocons, and Bushbots/Freepers.

You're perfectly right - they ain't all bad. I just have to seriously wonder about the ones who don't know they've been betrayed yet.

Nominated.

edit for typo

[Tigress DEM]

10. When "they" find out, and I've heard a few on the topic...

they are deeply hurt. Especially Christians who feel that it is a Christian's responsibility to take care of the least among us.

There is a whole organization called Clergy and Laity Concerned About Iraq that spoke on Sunday 9/26 in Washington DC for the Peace Rally Weekend. They were talking about building consensus among religious people to begin.

One preacher, a woman made me laugh out loud. She said, "If they are the right wing, big deal. WE are the rest of the bird!"

Even non-Christians react to the "truth" about what's going on with a hunger because even an intelligent person knows that this news circus is fake. I had people at my last job worried about me leaving because then where would they get their "real" news?

[Joyce]

8. Agenda Item #8

8) Abolish corporate personhood. If the legal fiction which said that people can be property (slavery, that is) can be legally abolished, then the legal fiction which says that corporations can be persons can also be abolished. We must educate enough people about the wrongheadedness and immorality of corporate personhood to be able to persuade the Congress to outlaw corporate personhood. We must do this state by state. It will be an enormous challenge, but as the Chinese say, "In every challenge is opportunity.":bounce: :kick:

[Tigress DEM]

11. Good call! People need their rights restored and ...

corporations need to learn to heel!!!

Get down off my leg Corporate America! You MAKE ME SICK!

[sepia_steel]

14. 8) Abolish corporate personhood.

AMEN!!!

[Tigress DEM]

16. Go down Moses. Set MY PEOPLE FREE!

Gotta get more songs!

Hang down your head, Tom Delay.
Hang down your head and cry.
Hang down your head, Tom Delay.
Poor boy, you're gonna fry.

[texpatriot2004]

31. I am ALL for that! That needs to be done. If they have rights they

MUST also have responsibilities.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

20. Ain't gonna happen. It's a necessary tool. Try reasonable regulation.

Ain't gonna happen. It's a necessary tool. Try proposing reasonable regulation.

You might as well try to say abolish capitalism.

Agenda Item #0: Realism. Practicality. Keep idealism, but no fantasies.

[Tigress DEM]

28. The thing is Bernado, having a corporation as a seperate entity is 1 thing

I agree THAT is a necessary tool, but the recent elevation of that entity to personhood and granting those persons in the form of large corporations MORE rights than actual people is NOT necessary.

Here in MN the government is taking people's homes in order to make a profit from corporations that want the land. The people HAVE to sell because the government has decided that these people who have owned their homes and taken good care of them are somehow less than a corporation that "promises" jobs and such. In MN this is bunk. Most of these set ups never produce what they are supposed to and the corporations bail before there is ever any real payback on their promises.

In an environment of sanity which has occassionally popped up over the years, then yes, practicality and reasonable regulation works. I'm for it.

In an environment where insanity is the norm, you have to have shocking ideas to be the cold water in the face. I grew up thinking that capitalism wasn't bad in and of itself, but to have ONE Corporation Under God is where we are headed if we don't HUGELY step on the brakes.

What you call fantasies, I simply call brainstorming and bringing up the fact that we DON'T have to do the same thing we've always done.

The definition of insanity that fits US to a tee these days is that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result IS insane.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. Agenda Item #0: Realism. Practicality. Keep idealism, but no fantasies.

[Tigress DEM]

29. Going to Mars USED to be called a fantasy.

Those of US willing to dream big are out on the fringe, and I'm not belittling your suggestion at all, Bernardo, because in MOST things I am a VERY practical - some would say extremely BORINGLY practical person in many respects.

However, what I am recognizing is that there is a place for this type of statement and more mainstream ideas as well. Each will appeal to different segments of the population and different aspects of our growth as a nation and serve different purposes although they end up at the same goal.

Like the song says, "You can reach me by railway, airplane, ocean liner.. whatever. Just GET HERE if you can." And HERE is a place where the US is talking openly about our disagreements and resolving them via our Constitutional tools and not in backrooms or in back pockets of crooked politicians.

[Joe Chi Minh]

24. If the conditions are right, as they should be

after this monumental, epoch-making neocon fiasco, it shouldn't be such an enormous challenge. More like a routine correction of yet another of the surreal excesses of corporatism. Go back to sleep, Bernardo. Your ideas are somewhat eccentric on this board to put it mildly. Why do you post here?

[Tigress DEM]

30. Now, now. Eccentrics are a lot of fun. Imagine, suggesting ....

that being practical is eccentric back 10 years ago. No one would have imagined.

I understand EXACTLY what you mean about the surreal aspect of life right now and it requiring a different approach, but a main point of my post is that we need everyone, so please be careful to talk to the ideas and not put people down.

The other post I pointed out is more practical and it serves a different purpose, may even be further along the road than mine, but I think the validity of standing up and challanging the Corporate Beast also has it's place.

Thanks for the support. Let's hope we soon get back to the place where reasonable regulation will resolve issues.

In a world where it takes John Edwards to stand up for a family that lost a beautiful child because a pool drain pump company was too cheap to include a 15 cent screw and a plastic barrier in their outgoing product - even though multiple children had been hurt and they KNEW the danger - staying the course, being practical UNFORTUNATELY isn't going to be enough.

Peace.

[Joe Chi Minh]

32. Tigress - I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong -

but I thought I'd just read a post of Bernardo more or less saying that convictions, if not indictments by the Grand Jury, were unlikely! I mean, what does that tell you...?

[Tigress DEM]

13. There is another AWESOME Post with solid ideas for sane people.

THE REAL DEM AGENDA.

Check it out!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2171700

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. Yes, follow the link to the DU post with more positive platform planks.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Positive post! Democratics need positive platforms, not just "anti".

However, most of the agenda items are "anti" items. Rephrase them as positives where possible, and come up with some good slogans. For example:

2) Voter Verified Paper Ballots and full provisional voting.

5) Honor and dignity in American conduct abroad, including a ban on torture.

Number 6 is the most practical and probably the most effective proposal.

Number 7 is not practical. Sometimes the nation has to move quickly.

All said, I was happy to be nomination 5 for the Greatest page.

What about things like healthcare, education, etc.?

[Tigress DEM]

25. There is a reason to frame it as what we're against at this time.

Framing as "positives" isn't a problem for me personally, but I put this together for the Mike Malloy show and he was on a wild rant. So I tried to frame it in such a way that it would stay with that provocative tone. Otherwise he'd interrupt me to spice it up.

Also, although you are right in general about positive framing, it's easier to agree on what areas we have learned we don't want than to agree on what we do want in some cases.

IE - NO ONE wants THEIR Vote to NOT be counted. But the positive specifics on how to get it done people nit pick to death.

What I am trying to do is draw the line in the sand which we are all on the same side of and then go from there. Because I am looking not just at DEMS and Progressives and Independents, but Republicans too, even conservative ones (as long as they stop drinking the koolaid) as being able to sign onto this agenda.

NO ONE wants to be dragged out of their house in the middle of the night for no valid reason, but the sneaky ways some laws have been written make that entirely possible. Not only that, but it's phrased in such away people think, "Oh, that won't affect me."

That's why I say the evil stinky stuff needs to be brought to the light of day. People who haven't been digging in the alternative news sources don't have a clue about this stuff. I work hard to keep up.

It's a kind of "Stop the Insanity" campaign. The end goal, of course is toward the solid type of game plan you mention, but honestly, that is the boring nuts and bolts and it won't move the masses.

I wish it would, but apathy and denial are powerfully alive in this country and need to be slain before we get to the (sigh of relief) boring nuts and bolts work that I personally will find a welcome change from the Alice in Wonderland life we've been living for the last 5 years.

And if you can prove me wrong and get more people interested in the calm positive approach, I'll be happy to be wrong. It doesn't matter to me as long as the end result is that WE THE PEOPLE get OUR Country back from the Corrupt Monkeys boucing and screeching in the hallways of the White House and on the Capital steps.

[Tigress DEM]

26. Number 7 is a pipe dream in a way, but it's out there to make a point.

I totally don't think we need to move quickly into ANY war, unless it involves genocide and the US hasn't TOUCHED any of those even when the PEOPLE BEG them to go - Dafar in the Western Sudan - IGNORED.

If it had gone to the people like an American Idol vote, we probably would have gone THERE, but not Iraq. If we were about giving the PEOPLE the POWER in reality it could be fast enough.

What I AM talking about mainly is the fact that this pResident who lied to get us to go to war and his ilk have put a stink on America that NEEDS a huge backlash into Peace.

It needs to be laid out there that maybe even a full Congress can be hoodwinked and so therefore the PEOPLE would be be the oversight committee.... as you pointed out, the idea of a committee that large would scare anyone with common sense into coming up with a better plan, but the frame of referrence is to find ways to assure the public that we can TRUST the Congress to do their jobs, which they haven't been doing.

[Tigress DEM]

27. Ironically, I thought 6 would not be as accepted - thanks for the imput.

I have heard versions of it before, so it isn't original, but it also dovetails with the idea of going back to individual contributions ONLY and get the lobbys and corporations out of the mix.

Let the lobbys spend their money on their causes and promoting the awareness to the public. Let the corporations who always seem to need SO much money just to scrape by even when they are making obscene profits to keep their graft dollars and use them to help themselves be successful.

Let the people have all the power over the purse strings so the elected will get a clue as to who they need to pay attention to now and forevermore.

[Red State Lib]

33. I agree

I started to read teh post with the intent of shooting it down (a bad character flaw of mine, among others) I found myslef agreeing down teh line. Thanks for sharing such good ideas. They are useless unless put into action.