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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 12:59 PM
Original message
many Americans views well left of almost any national Dem politician
Edited on Fri Oct-21-05 01:01 PM by dajoki
The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051107/alterman

Corrupt, Incompetent and 'Off Center'
Eric Alterman
posted October 20, 2005

Here is the liberals' problem in a nutshell: More than 30 percent of Americans happily answer to the appellation "conservative," while 18 percent call themselves "liberal." And yet when questioned by pollsters, a super-majority of more than 60 percent take positions liberal in everything but name. Indeed, on many if not most issues, Americans hold views well to the left of those espoused by almost any national Democratic politician.

In a May survey published by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, 65 percent of respondents said they favor providing health insurance to all Americans, even if it means raising taxes, and 86 percent said they favor raising the minimum wage. Seventy-seven percent said they believe the country "should do whatever it takes to protect the environment.'' A September Gallup Poll finds that 59 percent consider the Iraq War a mistake and 63 percent agree that US forces should be partially or completely withdrawn.

Nevertheless, extremist right-wingers, including a few apparent criminals, enjoy a stranglehold on our political system and media discourse. And so the majority views of the American people are treated with contempt by pundits and politicians alike. To give just a minor example, New York Times columnist David Brooks--the writer who best understands the dynamics of the contemporary Democratic Party, according to the smart boys at ABC's The Note--began a recent screed with the proclamation: "After a while, you get sick of the DeLays of the right and the Deans of the left." Note the implied equivalence between the corrupt and extreme Tom DeLay--who regularly compares the Environmental Protection Agency to the Nazis--and Howard Dean, a balanced-budget fiscal conservative and ally of the NRA whose "radical" position on Iraq now puts him to the right of most Americans. Or how about the treatment meted out by smarty-pants pundits to Al Gore, one of the few politicians who have given voice to majority American positions on the war, the environment and the dishonesty and ideological obsessions of the Bush Administration. Brooks termed him "unhinged." Fred Barnes said he was "nutty." Charles Krauthammer, speaking, he said, in his capacity as a psychiatrist, called him on "the edge of looniness."

Because right-wingers have been so adept at controlling the political discourse, they have succeeded in moving the Democrats rightward too. Brooks himself has pointed out that the conservative media have "cohered to form a dazzlingly efficient ideology delivery system that swamps liberal efforts to get their ideas out." In fact, all that's necessary to discredit an individual or an idea in the present poisoned atmosphere is to apply the label "liberal," which conservatives equate with "treason," "slander" and "treachery" (Ann Coulter); "idiocy" (Mona Charen); "Communism" (David Horowitz); inspiration for child murder (Newt Gingrich); Islamic terrorism (Andrew Sullivan, Christopher Hitchens, Horowitz again); and priestly pedophilia (Rick Santorum).

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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. good article n/t
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. great article...
Eric Alterman is always right on.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Health insurance, environmentalism, etc. have all been framed as 'bad'
and 'liberal', yet a huge majority of the American people support these initiatives.

WTF happened? And why can't the left get their heads out of their asses and reclaim these issues?
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. doesn't make any sense...
does it? we have the issues but not the votes.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. We need NASCAR, man...
Let's sponsor a car, each decorated with a Democratic core issue.

It is sad, when you think about it. The numbers that support these thinsg are huge. But who's winning the debate over these? And the GOP isn't going to deliver...but why do they keep winning elections?
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. and country music...
seem to go together. we need dems with BALLS to step up and open their mouths.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Dean's been quiet...
Maybe he's just watching the wheels come off BushCo too.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. i hope he has a plan n/t
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Because democratic candidates refuse
Corporate money is too ingrained into our party to make a change. The only way out would be for the way Dean campaigned, rely on mass donations from a lot of individuals, rather than traditional means of a few powerbrokers. Even then, the media and the system itself is stacked against you. Anyone with these kinds of "radical" views that most Americans support will be smeared in the media and branded unelectable, while democrats who just want to win will be pushed towards the "safe" candidate.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. exactly!!
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. two words of BS
"liberal" media





the greed heads can paint us any way they want to. Also, most Freepers I know love spouting off at the mouth in public too, so by being loud they seem to be a majority.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. People say they support these "leftist" programs.
But too many of them vote to the right because of wedge issues. One wedge trumps a litany of progressive programs. Face it, the right has locked up all the major single-issue voting blocs. They've got the gun nuts, the ultra-military crowd, the anti-choicers, the religious values sheeple, and the anti-tax groups. Those groups will vote Repug just on that one issue no matter what else is on the table.

Many people in those blocs probably support a lot of progressive ideas, but they'll vote right wing every time because of the one item that is their obsession.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. you're correct...
i remember an interview with a WV coal miner before the 2000 election. he told the interviewer that Gore ain't gonna take my guns. he voted against his own best interests because he was bullshitted. how do we get these people back?
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. My dad is a gun nut and he voted for Kerry
He usually votes Republican but I talked him into voting democratic by mentioning the patriot act, the Real ID act, etc. I told him that confiscation of guns was not out of the realm of possibility if Bush got a second term.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. good for you...
and your dad!!
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. exactly my father bought the whole right wing agenda
Edited on Fri Oct-21-05 01:47 PM by jonnyblitz
because of one issue, guns. he was convinced by the NRA that the "libruls were coming to take his guns away". the DEMS seemed to be no different than the GOP on the other thing he obsessed about, which was NAFTA. he was against it but since Clinton was the one pushing it, despite the congressional DEMS opposing it, he felt that DEMS were as bad as the GOP on this issue. This solidified his voting GOP in the 90's and to this day.:shrug:
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. That's the thing
I guess I can understand why people say Democrats shouldn't move left socially but I can't see why they can't move left economically. If there had been significant differences on issues such as NAFTA, universal healthcare, etc., then I believe Kerry would have won the race.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. my father in law did too
hell, he still makes remarks about Kerry's goose-hunt photo op and is convinced his guns are in danger....

Ironically they may need those guns soon if things keep getting bleaker.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. comment on Dean
Alterman made the following statement about Dean: "and Howard Dean, a balanced-budget fiscal conservative and ally of the NRA whose "radical" position on Iraq now puts him to the right of most Americans."

i am neither pro-Dean nor anti-Dean ...

but i disagree with Alterman's observation about him ... first, it is absurd to argue that a strong belief in a balanced budget renders one a fiscal conservative ... no matter where on the political spectrum one resides, you cannot spend what you do not have ... balanced budgets make sound economic policy whether you're a neo-con or a socialist ...

and second, while i strongly disagree with Dean's "we're stuck there" view on Iraq and i also agree he is out of touch with the majority of Americans (most want withdrawal ASAP), i think it's not just Dean to who is to the right of most Americans but the Democratic Party establishment as a whole ...

and one last point ... i strongly agree with Alterman's observation that Americans align themselves with many views held by the progressive wing of the Party ... we need to stop all this nonsense about labels and we need to stop all this nonsense about "going after the center or moving to the right" ... Democrats will continue to lose until they define their beliefs clearly to the American people and fight like hell for them ... if we become political mechanics merely tweaking our beliefs in search of votes, we will fail ... leadership is about taking a position and fighting for it; it is not about following an often uninformed perception of what most people think ...
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. That's a great article. And it's true. nominated n/t
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. Very heartening. I've always believed people have more sense.
It's why the idea of Bushco winning 2000 was inconceivable.

Clinton only knew how to work with the corporate rogues in the box seat, but he was a genius at exacting as much as he could from them for the working man, i.e. furthering the best interests of the whole country - the regular people all over the world, if it comes to that.

I think after this historic debacle of the far right, with God's help, Kerry, Edwards and like-minded souls could very likely stem the grand larceny of recent years, and restore elementary justice in the workplace, so that adult Americans and their families will again be able to thrive. In fact, the physical and social infrastructure would be restored, as well as integrity and competence in public life. Law, too! Imagine it! Law and Order! And that, with a decimated prison population!
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thats my problem with moderates who criticize the left wing as if it
compares to the insanity that the far right holds. Liberals don't make death threats to anything that doesnt fit their agenda for starters.

Moderates were not slandered and threatened sic ways to Sunday like Liberals were/are. They have no idea about the very very VERY real fear that many of us faced and continue to face. As they ever got were a few potshots from either side. They have no idea how and what it is to fear your repub neighbors so much that you buy a gun and keep your political, religious and sexual orientation completely hidden at all costs lest your cat accidentally gets run over by a hummer or the General Lee.... and what do moderate DLC types offer us threats that we had better vote their way or we will lose again.

Its amazing that they don't get why we don't trust them anymore than righties. With threats in the middle and threats further right the only way to go sometimes is further left.

Fuck 'em.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Bravo!!
:toast:
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