Duers! Need help getting facts about Clinton NOT guilty

[CTyankee]

of perjury and obstruction of justice. I've got a family get together soon and this will come up with my RW in-laws. They're going to defend the Bush admin. and say that Clinton committed perjury and obstruction of justice, I know it. I need to have an airtight case against them. Do you have sources I can cite?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Clinton was not criminally charged; he was impeached

on the grounds of perjury and obstruction of justice. Following an impeachment trial by the Senate, he was acquitted of those charges. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewinsky_scandal

[BattyDem]

2. What's to argue? Clinton was acquitted of all charges ...

by the GOP-controlled Senate, with a GOP judge (William Rehnquist) presiding. End of discussion. :-)

[Debi]

3. Wasn't he found guilty of something?

He wasn't impeached, or he was impeached but not removed from office.

He did have to pay a fine and lose his law license.

It's been so long I just don't know, what's more important here, though, is that he lied about sex. Bush and Co. have lied about national security issues, and those lies have lead to the death of 2000 US service men and women and injuries to thousands of others.

This ain't no blow job.

[Mikimouse]

4. I believe that the fine and loss of license was related to ...

the testimony in the Paula Jones civil suit. I could be wrong, but that seems to be what I remember. It was not something that arose from the impeachment hearings.:shrug:

[papau]

11. Loss of License was a AK state bar sanction for 5 years for misleading

the Court.

[Debi]

19. Thanks n/t

[Debi]

17. Thank you for the correction.

:hi:

[Hissyspit]

6. Self-deleted dumb post

I don't remember. It was something petty. Someone else fill in...

[papau]

8. nope- only the Judge ruled him in contempt for misleading the Court and he

paid a fine (he told truth that was misleading to the Judge).

But he was found quilty of nothing.

[Hissyspit]

10. Yes, sorry, I think I'm remembering the vote for the articles of impeach-

ment.

From answers.com:

"The perjury charge lost, 55–45, with 10 Republicans joining all 45 Democrats in voting against it; the obstruction charge drew a 50–50 vote. Subsequently, on Apr. 12, Judge Wright, who had dismissed the Jones case, found the president in contempt for lying in his Jan., 1998, testimony, when he denied the Lewinsky affair. In July, Judge Wright ordered the president to pay nearly $90,000 to Ms. Jones's lawyers. During that same month a Maryland grand jury indicted Linda Tripp for illegally taping phone calls..."

[Hissyspit]

13. Also, CTyankee: Criminal vs. Civil

From a post by thoughtcriminal:

"Criminal vs. Civil
Remember when the Republicans scoured the country to find cases of criminal prosecution for perjury in a civil case (I think they found a couple of rare cases).

On the other hand, prosecution for perjury in a criminal investigation is quite common and serious."

[Debi]

18. thank you for the correction

:hi:

[papau]

7. Clinton PERJURY CONVICTION NEVER HAPPENED - nada convictions

Clinton PERJURY CONVICTION NEVER HAPPENED

In the civil suit the judge cited and fined him for contempt for misleading testimony - testimony that was literally accurate and truthful but effectively misleading. That's the sole finding. His law license was suspended for five years - not by the Court but by the local -State of AK -bar association. In addition the questions asked by the Jones attorneys were not material to that matter as it was a Civil Rights action and not a harrassment suit - and when there is no materiality, there can be no perjury. The Grand Jury asking about what he said in the deposition of the Jones case, and his repeating the same answer about a non-material matter, is still non-material, and so no perjury was ever committed, from a legal point of view. FOR THE MEDIA TYPES THAT LIE AND SAY THAT IS JUST AN OPINION PLEASE NOTE CITE(Cite: Mann & Roberts)

The House impeachment is just an accusation for the Senate to review - and the Jones perjury event - that did not exist - did not make it out as an impeachment charge - losing by a 205-229 vote. And House imoeachment vote on the grand jury impeachment charge for when the questions asked were about what he said in the deposition of the Jones case, he was repeating the same answer about a non-material matter, which is still non-material. Hence, no perjury was ever committed, from a legal point of view (but the House did Impeach but Senate passed on that and on the obstruction of Justice accusation that the House srnt to the Senate

As to the law on materiality and perjury use as a Cite: Mann & Roberts.

[catmother]

20. he was impeached

but not removed from office.

[Debi]

22. Thank you, I knew that part, remember watching it on C-SPAN

But also recalled a fine and loss of his law license. As you can see from the above posts, I have been educated! :hi:

Thanks again.

Debi

[catmother]

23. i was glued to the tv during

all the proceedings, and i had no one to talk to about it. my mom is a dem but she hated clinton because he lied. i live in phoenix and back then it was still very much goldwater country and believe it or not i have some gay friends who are republicans which i still cannot figure out. my husband was on the road most of the time and not really too interested in what was going on.

[Contrary1]

5. Just smile and say "No one died from Clinton's lie".

"...On December 19, following much debate over the constitutionality of the proceedings and whether or not Clinton could be punished by censure rather than impeachment, the House of Representatives held its historic vote. Clinton was impeached on two counts, grand jury perjury (228–206) and obstruction of justice (221–212), with the votes split along party lines.

The Senate Republicans, however, were unable to gather enough support to achieve the two-thirds majority required for his conviction.

On Feb. 12, 1999, the Senate acquitted President Clinton on both counts. The perjury charge failed by a vote of 55–45, with 10 Republicans voting against impeachment along with all 45 Democrats. The obstruction of justice vote was 50–50, with 5 Republicans breaking ranks to vote against impeachment."

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/impeach.html

[rodeodance]

24. it is a sad but good truism to toss at them.

[zbdent]

9. Remind them that impeachment is the process of getting him to trial

in the Senate - and that it is not the outcome of the process.

He was not convicted.

[afdip]

12. isn't it time you told them to go fuck themselves????

[CTyankee]

14. Would LOVE to do that! Unfortunately, they are family

and one of their grown children is getting married and we will attend the wedding. This lovely young woman is an ESL teacher, a world traveler, and her husband to be is a former Tibetan monk. It is the parents that are the Republicans. So, it is not that easy. This is difficult. They are not monsters, they just vote Republican, mid west style. I have tried and tried with reason with them. But they don't like any "controversy" so political arguments are outlawed. Except with my brother in law who feels he can breach the outlaw and say what he pleases. I have decided to just cite my evidence, tell them they are full of shit and leave it at that.

Thanks for all who have responded. I have printed responses and will study them on the plane on the way!

[iamahaingttta]

15. That's exactly what I was going to suggest!

You really have to treat them like the scum they are.

Sorry...

[LittleClarkie]

16. Personally, I'd let them have the obstruction and perjury

but then remind them that if that is such a serious offense, then surely they can't defend this administration if they did the same.

Hit them with the hypocracy defense. Like Franken did with Kay Bailey Hutchinson on Monday. Perjury was so damn serious when it was Clinton, but suddenly not good enough if it's someone of her own party. She told Russert that she hoped that Fitz had something more than perjury to charge Cheney or Scooter or whoever with, some REAL crime.

It was real enough when it was Clinton. It damn well should be real enough when it's one of their own.

[Montauk6]

21. Wait, CTYank...

Why do YOU need to defend the CLINTON ADMINSTRATION for BUSHCO's crimes and misdemeanors???

Even if Clinton himself shot up Columbine, that's irrelevant to what's happening now!

If they're true RWers, then point out how "bleeding heart liberal" they're sounding by mollycoddling these crooks and making excuses for their disgusting behavior, and then tell 'em to pass the goddamn potatoes.