the 3 remaining options in Iraq

[welshTerrier2]

the arguments from those resisting immediate withdrawal are growing more and more absurd everyday ...

Sunni minority wants withdrawal
one of the pillars of the "we're stuck in Iraq" crowd is that we have to "stabilize" Iraq before we leave ... implicit in this argument is the idea that if we withdraw now, civil war would break out and the minority Sunnis would be slaughtered by the Shia and Kurd majorities ...

well, today, Sunni leaders told the US to get the hell out of their country (see article below) ...

Failed military mission
the situation in Iraq is getting worse, not better ... two and half years after the US invaded and virtually no part of Iraq has been secured ... the short ride between the Baghdad airport and the heavily occupied "Green Zone" is a death trap ... two days ago, a hotel directly across the river from the Green Zone was hit with two rockets and a car bomb ... how long will it take to secure the entire country when after two and a half years we can't even secure the areas right next to our strongest encampment ???

Troop training has failed and should fail
top US Generals in Iraq testified before Congress a couple of weeks ago that there is only one Iraqi battalion sufficiently trained (after 2.5 years) to be able to act on their own ... the troops the US is training are almost exclusively Shia militia who are far more likely to enforce a pro-Shia agenda than they are to respect the rights of the Sunni minority ... the US is arming one side in the dispute ... stability from repression is hardly is desirable goal ...

Polls in both countries call for withdrawal
and what about the polls? what do the American and Iraqi people want? should we honor their views or should we let elitest politicians dictate the policy? consider these polls:
45% of Iraqis support attacks on US troops
82% of Iraqis want the US to leave their country
52% of Americans want withdrawal ASAP
Based on these polls, what right does our government have to continue the occupation?

bush's false motives and lies
and as a final objection to remaining in Iraq, we are stuck with an administration that is NOT being truthful about why invaded Iraq ... the motives of the bush administration have nothing to do with promoting democracy or protecting the Iraqi people ... it may sound like a cliche because it's been said so often, but bush and his cronies are seeking a permanent, imperial presence in Iraq to harvest Iraqi oil ... it's not theirs to harvest ...

3 remaining options
the only good news is that the handwriting is on the wall in Iraq ... politicians, perhaps from both sides of the aisle, can see next year's elections looming over the horizon ... they realize that time has run out and the American people will not tolerate continued occupation ... all that is left to them now is the endgame ... the endgame cannot logically be made up from a "stabilization" strategy ... that boat has sailed ... the only three pieces left on the chessboard are immediate withdrawal, a near-term timetable with an initial troop reduction to show good faith or a formal binding referendum of the Iraqi people on the issue of US occupation ... any other course is unacceptable ... it's arrogant ... it's elitist ... and it's undemocratic ...

source: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-10-26T103508Z_01_YUE544037_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ.xml

Iraqi Sunni leaders said on Wednesday they would focus on pressing U.S. forces to pull out after failing to block a controversial constitution, hoping a U.S. death toll of 2,000 will encourage Washington to withdraw.

"Our political program will focus more on getting the Americans out of
Iraq," Hussein al-Falluji, a prominent Sunni who took part in talks on the constitution, told Reuters.

"Our message to the American administration is clear: get out of Iraq or set a timetable for withdrawal or the resistance will keep slaughtering your soldiers until judgment day." <skip>

"This war will require more sacrifice, more time and more resolve," he (i.e. bush) told military wives shortly before the Pentagon announcement. <skip>

"We call on the American people to bring home their troops to avoid a disaster," said Falluji.

[Mass]

1. I like the third option : ask people what they think

(assuming that the UN supervises the election, of course).

[Inland]

2. I'm hoping you are referring to America

in the UN supervised referendum. Takes two to tango, and I don't think we have the stomach to let Iraqis vote us "in" for another two years.

[Mass]

3. I dont think an Iraqi referendum would keep us in Iraq.

as long as it is not a rigged election.

[welshTerrier2]

4. Iraqi referendum

the referendum referred to in the OP was a referendum of the Iraqi people to determine whether occupation forces should stay or go ...

if they vote for withdrawal, the US should leave ... if they vote for continued occupation, which won't happen of course, then it's obviously up to the US and the American people whether they choose to remain ...

the bottom line is that the US has no right to be in Iraq if the Iraqi people don't want us there ...

[jonnyblitz]

5. great collection of info! i am bookmarking this thread.

thank you. :thumbsup:

[welshTerrier2]

6. that is my best case for withdrawal

and where are the Deanies? nowhere !!
and where are the Kerries? pretty much nowhere !!
and where are the Clarkies? who knows !!
and where are the rest of the candidate supporters? MIA ...

i've laid out the case ... it explains why i criticize Clark's plan ... it explains why i criticize Dean's plan ... it explains why i criticize Kerry's plan ... this is not bashing ... this is not a circular firing squad ... this is not "do whatever you want ... all you're doing is electing republicans"

where are those who blindly follow candidates but make no case???

the arguments are there to dispute ... all we get in return is "Your candidate here" blind loyalty ... of course, that's not true of all candidate supporters; just most of them ... it's really pathetic ...

thanks for the feedback, jb ... it's appreciated !! :toast:

[Clarkie1]

7. The Sunni leadership wants to destabilize the country.

They only represent 20% of the population; they are not the majority.

They are not interested in the rights of the other 80%, and many see terrorist tactics against the Shia and Americans as their only hope for political survival. That of course is a simplistic analysis, but a useful starting point nevertheless. It seems to me we should follow the wishes of the majority, be they Sunni or Shia, and encourage minority rights. Do the majority of Iraqis want the U.S. to withdraw immediately and completely tomorrow? I doubt it. Do they want the U.S. to leave their country as soon as it is possible to do so without enabling the militant Sunnis (mostly) to plunge the country into even greater chaos? Yes.

[welshTerrier2]

8. "we should follow the wishes of the majority"

can we sign you up for option 3 then?

that option calls for a binding referendum of the Iraqi people on the issue of US troop presence in Iraq ... i would happily agree to that ... as you stated, "we should follow the wishes of the majority" ...

[Clarkie1]

9. I think that is a splendid idea. n/t