Is John Kerry a Lying Sack O' S#!@$%???? Or What?

[Tamyrlin79]

From John Kerry's Speech at Georgetown:
"The country and the Congress were misled into war. I regret that we were not given the truth; as I said more than a year ago, knowing what we know now, I would not have gone to war in Iraq. And knowing now the full measure of the Bush Administration’s duplicity and incompetence, I doubt there are many members of Congress who would give them the authority they abused so badly."

Now, correct me if my memory has suddenly gone faulty, but didn't Kerry say the exact OPPOSITE of the bolded portion above? In fact, don't I remember a whole brouhaha, and a funny Jon Stewart mocking, of John Kerry's statement that (paraphrased) if he knew now what he knew then he STILL would have voted for the war???

I know politicians lie... But to lie about something that was so public, so crucial in the history of his presidential campaign (and so memorably wrong-headed)? I'm glad Kerry wouldn't vote for the war now. I applaud that. But to say that he was saying the same thing a year ago is an outright damn lie. Perhaps he is engaging in some of that "revisionist history" so derided by the Right?

[merh]

1. Nothing like a subtle title to catch everyone's attention!

:popcorn:

[LiberalVoice]

2. Easy.

Some Kerry lovers might have a meltdown and try biting your nose off.

[louis-t]

Yes it is.

[rzemanfl]

3. He said he would still have voted the authority, not the war. n/t

[bowens43]

5. That's all he did any way.

There was no vote to go to war. The vote was to give the authority to go to war.

[ikojo]

17. Giving BUSH the AUTHORITY to go to war is the

same as voting for war. This president wasn't going to go back to congress once he had the authority. Kerry can try to lawyer up but he voted for Bush's agenda on the war.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

35. So if I give a gun to someone whom I know intends to murder,

I'm not at fault. Sweet.

And if Cheney gave Plame's name to Libby knowing he would leak it, Cheney's in the clear too!

[elehhhhna]

10. Voting that authority was an abdication of responsibility and

as far as I'm concerned, every man or woman who voted so WALKED OFF THE JOB at that moment.

Kerry, Hil, you name 'em.

[ewagner]

4. I suppose he could mean

"now, now" as opposed to "then, now"....

[rniel]

6. He voted against it before he was for it

Or was it he voted for it before he was against it.

I'm so confused.

[saracat]

7. Oh! Stop it. More info has surfaced and you know it.

This info was not credible at the time of the IWAR vote. And NOW it is proven. Kerry doesn't just speak on rumours like many on DU. He has to have facts and now he has them.
Some are never happy. He is aying what many wanted but is backing it up with facts and they are still unhappy! Go figure.

[Jacobin]

15. ALL the information was available then and

if you don't know that you should. Most here on DU knew and many articles were written opeds by former BushI folks WARNING that this was a giant mistake.

It was a Kerry political miscalculation.

[Cooley Hurd]

33. Agreed... the Iraq war and its outcome comes as no surprise...

...to those of us that have been on DU since 2002.:thumbsup:

Oh, if only they read DU. :(

[saracat]

51. They were not substantiated. Du is not a repository of fact.

Kerry is a methodical prosecutor and these facts are only now being authenticated. He isn't about to go haring off like some on a rumour.
This is like all those who report the interenet musings as LBN. Sorry .The authentication is new.

[Tamyrlin79]

18. Uh... the FACTS are the same as they were a year ago.

And the fact is that what he was saying a year ago is not what he SAID he was saying a year ago.

[BlueEyedSon]

23. Downing St Minutes, wiseguy?

[Jacobin]

28. Wise Ma'am?

DSM were simply the written version of what was being reported BEFORE the IWR vote.

10 million people protested in the streets before hand.

Scott Ritter wrote a fucking book as a former weapons inspector (Well, Will Pitt wrote it) NO WMD

It was OBVIOUS and PLAIN to see BEFORE the IWR vote that this was propaganda and lies to invade for oil

EVERYONE who was watching and aware knew it. EVERYONE.

Where were you?

[BlueEyedSon]

36. I was here, clearly the question is "where was Kerry?".... and can any

possible answer make his critics STFU?

As the absolute and total criminal nature of the Bush admin (and the R party in general) becomes apparent, can anyone still say that they was no difference between Kerry and Bush for 2004? Yes, they are both more to the right (pick your direction, toward neverneverland if you like) of what I would prefer, but that doesn't mean our choice wasn't clear.

[Jacobin]

44. I voted for him

reluctantly, but there was no choice.

I still reserve the right to be furious at him for his spineless pandering to the neocons on the IWR.

Now he's got to parse his way out of a STUPID position and it won't be easy.

[Tamyrlin79]

31. What of them?

Look, Kerry said that what he is saying now (No on War) is THE SAME as what he was saying a year ago. Kerry himself is asserting that his position HAS NOT CHANGED. This is despite the fact that a year ago he was saying something DIFFERENT (Yes on War).

you only prove my point. If Kerry changed his position after DSM, that is fine by me. But to suggest that his position hasn't changed at all in the past year is clearly a lie.

[BlueEyedSon]

41. "knowing what we know now"

ok, he says that was a year ago. When were the DSMs news? Is he merely exaggerating, rhetorically turning 6 months into a year...?

[Jacobin]

48. Sorry. DSM was not a eureka moment for anyone paying

attention for the last few years.

It was simply written proof.

ALL the evidence was there before.

Anyway....

[BlueEyedSon]

49. You're smart, so explain why the resolution passed if the truth was so

obvious?

[Jacobin]

8. I suppose he hopes that people won't remember

:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

9. I believe that statement was attributed to someone speaking for him.

Please provide links to substantiate what you are saying in regard to his prior quote. There was a lot of controversy at the time as to just who in fact said it.

[ken_g]

21. Didn't he say "knowing what I know now....." while standing on the edge of

the Grand Canyon? There was a whole press gagle around.

[emulatorloo]

26. READ THE WHOLE DAMN QUOTE from 08/09/04

QUESTION (8/9/04): The president last week challenged you to answer yes or no to the question of whether if, knowing what you know now, you would still have voted to go to war? Are you going to take that challenge up?

KERRY: I’m ready for any challenge, and I'll answer it directly. Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it is the right authority for a president to have, but I would have used that authority, as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively. I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has. And my question to President Bush is, Why did he rush to war without a plan to win the peace? Why did he rush to war on faulty intelligence and not do the hard work necessary to give America the truth? Why did he mislead America about how he would go to war? Why has he not brought other countries to the table in order to support American troops in the way that we deserve and relieve a pressure from the American people?

[Tamyrlin79]

37. yeah, and?

that clearly shows that his position a year ago (that he would still vote for war "knowing what he knows now", as the question asked) is not the same as his position today (that he wouldn't vote for war "knowing what he knows now"). This indicates a change in his position. For him to then say today that it hasn't changed, that he was saying the same thing a year ago, is a lie. So, thanks for proving this post correct.

[BlueEyedSon]

46. Here is the correct and proper refutation. Please read it. Thx, EL.

[ken_g]

11. He's reeeeally playing with words there

"I would not have gone to war". That's different than I would have voted to give the President the authority to go to war. He's using the "knowing what I know now" part to obfuscate the issue IMO.

[Jacobin]

16. not gonna work

I still remember the canned email he sent me before the IWR vote, spouting all the neo con talking points for invasion.

[liberalnurse]

12. I'm giving him his space to come out of the woodshed.

I'm willing to take a sincere Democrat today and find room to forgive if....IF they show legitimate spine and fight for the party. I prefer to go forward....but they must meet a standard and stay within the fighting expectation at all cost..

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. Kerry is on record for voting for bush to invade Iraq at his pleasure

"knowing what we know now" - shit, if "we" could do most things over, knowing what we "know now" things would be quite different wouldn't they?
That's why making a wise judgment the FIRST time is so fucking valuable in the real world.

[NEDem]

14. depends

it depends on what the meaning of 'Is' Is

[Der Blaue Engel]

19. Indeed, I think you have gone faulty

He said, in fact: "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president to have."

I happen to disagree with him on that point as well, but it is not the same as saying he was in favor of war. You can read it that way if you like, but do get your quotes straight.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueEyedSon]

25. After the media assassinated Dean, you mean.....

[Der Blaue Engel]

27. The voters have NEVER elected Bush

Welcome to DU, I'm sure you'll learn a lot here. :hi:

[xchrom]

47. kerry won the election --

bush can't win anything.

but he's pretty good at nicking off with it under a supreme court justice's robe.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cindyw]

22. OH MY GOD. He never said that he would have voted yes like that.

I am so tired of this lie. And don't try to haul some article up for me with no direct quotes. I so tired of this.

[Tamyrlin79]

29. Ummm... it was on national TV...

He was in front of the grand canyon? It wasn't in an article.

As for today's quote, feel free to google John Kerry Georgetown University Speech. I'm sure the entire text is up somewhere...

[Mass]

32. He is NOT referring to the Grand Canyon

He said SEVERAL times that he would not have gone to war during the campaign.

I posted one of the quotes further down.

[rawtribe]

24. He

should have gotten his intelligence from Amy Goodman over at Democracy Now. She got the story right.

[Mass]

30. Sure he did say that - One quote among many

Here is one of the text for not going to war



THE 2004 CAMPAIGN: THE CAMPAIGN; In Harshest Critique Yet, Kerry Attacks Bush Over War in Iraq
New York Times, Late Edition - Final, Sec. A, p 1 09-21-2004
By JODI WILGOREN and ELISABETH BUMILLER


In an interview with David Letterman broadcast Monday night on the "Late Show," Mr. Kerry was asked directly whether, had he been elected president in 2000, he would have taken the country to war in Iraq. Mr. Kerry said simply, "No."

Pressed about whether American troops would be in Iraq now if a Kerry administration had received the same intelligence the Bush administration had, Mr. Kerry said: "We know now there were no weapons of mass destruction. We know now there was no connection to Al Qaeda. We know there was no imminent threat and under those circumstances. I would not have taken America to war."

[liberalnurse]

34. He didn't sell it to the voting public.

It was a lack luster issue for him.

[Mass]

40. Sorry. he said it last year several times.

[emulatorloo]

42. he sold it -- TV news didn't report it

I heard it a rallies and on CSPAN.

[INdemo]

38. I don't know where you got this but

he is being misquoted...he didn't say this one year ago but he added if the President would have been honest about this he would not have gotten the votes.. and he would not have voted to go to war.. this "I voted for it before I voted" was taken out of context. Check out the full context when he made this statement...The repubs used this really well in their propaganda spin and were obviously successful

[INdemo]

39. I don't know where you got this but

he is being misquoted...he didn't say this one year ago but he added if the President would have been honest about this he would not have gotten the votes.. and he would not have voted to go to war.. this "I voted for it before I voted" was taken out of context. Check out the full context when he made this statement...The repubs used this really well in their propaganda spin and were obviously successful

[saracat]

52. It is taken out of RW talking points.

It is too bad some lower themselves to such a point.

[texastoast]

43. I don't think this is a lie at all

I recall almost all the Dems voting to go into war because shrubito told us all that we are under dire threat of Saddam Hussein. "Trust me," he said. "I know what I'm talking about."

Kerry and other Dems (not wanting to appear unpatriotic so soon after 9/11 and not wanting to lose any political capital) having been informed of such "intelligence" by our "fearless leader" voted to go to war. Wrongly, yes.

Kerry did say more than a year ago that had he known that there were no weapons of mass destruction and had he known that there was no development program, he would not have voted to go to war. It was part of his answer to the pukes when they shouted "hypocrisy" to his antiwar stance. It was part of his campaign script, and I recall his saying it, perhaps as early as April 2004.

Now, you. Please be kind enough to give us links to substantiate your your accusations of lying before posting something like this. I feel pretty sure that Kerry is aware that his every word can be researched and traced to its origin. It is very unlikely that a politician of his experience will make a comment like that without it being fact.

[LoZoccolo]

45. Here's a question for the smart people observing this thread.

We have about a year until the 2006 elections. We should budget our time wisely to that end.

Do the nuance-impaired deserve your attention between now and then?

The ignore button is the icon of the person sleeping right above the message. It's there for you to reclaim your time.

Victory in 2006!

[ncrainbowgrrl]

53. Locking this.

Referring to the former Democratic Nominee for President as "a Lying Sack O' S#!@$%???? Or What?" was bound to trigger a flamewar. And it has.