Question about an epithet.

[Orrex]

"Gyp" as in "That hot dog vendor gypped me."

Racist or not?

Please discuss.

[rock]

1. Racist

Or at the very least showing a lack of sensitivity.

[Orrex]

2. I'm inclined to agree. The reason I ask...

Is that CNN used the term "gyp" in a review of the film Saw 2.

[rock]

4. Probably inocently used

but still insensitive. It's not as bad as (and I appologize for even quoting it) "to Jew one down" but of the same nature.

[Orrex]

7. You're probably right, but it surprised me

A maintenance worker in an office (where I used to work) routinely and unblinkingly referred to the act of forcing a tool or part into a task for which it was not designed as "niggering" it.

Blew my mind.

[unblock]

3. pretty much anytime you use a culture or nationality as a verb,it's racist

the only exception i can think of is "french"

:evilgrin:

[fasttense]

5. So why is Gyp racist?

I looked it up and got this: Gyp: Novelist, born at the château of Koëtsal, Brittany, NW France, the great-grand-niece of Mirabeau. She published about 100 humorous novels and dialogues which impertinently denounced fashionable society and political circles, of which the best known are...

So is it a racist comment for the French?

[Touchdown]

6. Gyp is short for Gypsie...or Romanian

n/t

[Igel]

8. Roma. Not Romanian.

Romanians are Central Europeans of putatively mostly Latin descent, tracing their cultural history to Roman occupation of Dacia, with a bit of Slavic admixture.

The Roma are migrants that showed up, I believe it was, in the early Middle Ages after leaving N. India.

[Taxloss]

9. Racist.

In the 19th century in England, people said "Jew on you" for "cheat you". The same principle applies.

[Igel]

10. First decide where the crucial bit of information concerning

racism resides: Is it dependent on the hearer's judgment, or on the speaker's motivations--or is it something 'structural', depending no so much on any individual person or people, but sort of on how things have worked out and continue to work out?

Answer that question, it's possible to discuss your question intelligently.

'Gyp' ultimately comes from 'gypsie' (presumably to conduct one's self in a deal like a gypsie would), but 'gypsie' itself is considered offensive because it rests on the presumption that the Roma (which is what most, but not all, of the ethnicity calls itself) were from Egypt instead of India. Considering that the Roma don't have good traditions of their own history, I'm not sure why it is offensive, but I guess it's because its offensive for people not to be called by what they call themselves, in principle.

But unless a speaker knows the history of the word, it's hard for the person to actually imply anything racist; unless the hearer knows the word's history, it's hard for the person presumably slighted to be offended. And since it's used pretty much of and by any member of any race or ethnicity, it's hard for it to be structural racism.

[Mairead]

11. Egypt comes into it supposedly because the original 'gypsies'

were an entertainer caste working in Egypt. When it came time to return, they either decided not to or found that they couldn't, and spread out into Europe instead.

As to whether the term 'gyp' for 'cheat or swindle' is racist, people should probably be aware that it's a tradition among the Rom that Jesus himself, dying on the cross, gave the Rom a permanent licence to cheat the gadje (non-gypsies), and so even today those who still live a traditional or semi-traditional life get as much of their living as they can by scamming (fortune telling, confidence trickery, begging, etc.)

[Greyhound]

12. Grandfather on mothers side was Irish Gypsy and I say

who cares? First gypsies are not really a race, it's all about the family and we've been busy interbreeding with the Ghedzies for a long time, so we are well mixed.
Second, as with most stereotypes there is a basis in truth.
Third, all this hypersensitivity is counter-productive, it invariably becomes the topic and the original point is lost.
Have at it.

[Orrex]

13. First of all, I love that duel-graphic!

Second, I'm not really hypersensitive to it, though I'm aware that it's often held up as an example of the "insidiousness" of racism.

In a culture where someone can conceivably be fired for referring (as an example) to "niggardly chicanery," I was just surprised to see CNN using the term.

That's all.

[Gormy Cuss]

19. Thank you Orrex.

I had never thought to put 'chicanery' with 'niggardly,' although I have been known to use the latter in conversations with pea brained people who think it's related to that offensive term.

I correct liberals on 'gyp.' The last time I did so in a group setting one woman came to the defense of the person who used it by saying it was no more offensive than saying someone "Jewed you down." The Jews at the table had a different opinion.

I'm such a trouble maker.

}(

[ArkDem]

14. Who cares?

[Orrex]

15. Thanks for answering!

[ArkDem]

16. I was in the middle of a thoughtful introspection when I just

blurted out my reply. Now I feel ashamed. Sorry.

[Orrex]

18. Oh, please!

If you'd seen some of the answers I've offered in my day, you'd be downright proud of yours, by comparison.

Don't sweat it.

:hi:

[Orangepeel]

17. Of course it is bigoted

granted, most people who use the term probably don't realize that it is a bigoted term, but it is (I guess it is "ethnicist" rather than "racist," as I don't think that Gypsies are a race), but it is exactly as offensive and bigoted at saying that you "jewed someone down" to get a good deal (which is very).