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We Really do need a Strong and Viable Third Party in America....

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 06:43 PM
Original message
We Really do need a Strong and Viable Third Party in America....
given what we see out there today? Waiting for so long to have "Indictments" about Iraq Blunder/Criminal Activity?

How long before we can really form a VIABLE THIRD PARTY?

I know....folks say Third Party's go down and can't get funding and end up being "spoilers for Repugs to gain the Presidency."

But...how much worse can it get given that we've tried so hard to vote with our conscience yet the Major Partyies and the Media Spin keep "selecting" folks who get "Impeached" or "Implode" on their own.

When will "Truth and Transparency" come BACK INTO AMERICAN GOVERNMENT?

How can we move that thought FORWARD? :shrug:
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mestup Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. The new third party may end up being the hardcore Right wingers.
It wouldn't surprise me, the way they're melting down. They see themselves as just "this close!" to being legitimized by the Republican party, and crawling out of their dark closet of hate and bigotry.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I see it as the opposite...that we "Lefties/Centrists need a New Party.
Interesting that you see the opposite. :shrug:
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mestup Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. No, wasn't saying whether the left did or didn't need a new party,
just observing that the RightWingers are getting so out of control, I could see them splitting off and starting their own party.

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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. I agree. I'd like to see the Republicans split.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Unlikely to happen....
look at the miers nomination....what you saw is the base protesting, not the pols. The base is pretty united around seeking a fundmantalist extreme right winger legally speaking.
Don't confuse the base of any party with it's politicians. THe base has to make itself heard in order for the politicians to follow. Any politician who's spent longer than four years in DC has probably lost their soul. They tend to want to do whatever is expedient to the process....they are the true mushy middle, until we yell loud enough.
Like the right, I think the left has a very unhappy base....we just need to yell louder otherwise many of us will split once again.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. "corruption-lite" and the two party system ...
i don't go as far as the author of the article (see below) in saying there is no difference between the two major parties ... but the degree to which big money and "special interests" dominate who gets served and who gets screwed cannot be denied ... and it cannot be denied that both Democrats and republicans are complicit, perhaps to varying degrees, in this conspiracy ...

the two party system institutionalizes an undemocratic nobility ... it stifles alternative voices ... it allows a ruling class of incumbents to rule without accountability ... it blocks out fresh ideas from nationally televised presidential debates ...

and all the while, the empire continues to die ... just how long did you suppose greed and avarice against the national interest could go on before the big bills came due for all of us? we are sitting just back from the dark, dangerous edge with the same cast of characters controlling the script ... until it is too late to react, a sleeping public will not call for changes we need ...


source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_anthony__051024_corruption_lite_and_.htm

I see all the time the questions of what is wrong with the Democratic Party. I sense the palpable frustration of well-minded people who fight day in and out against the corruption in the current administration only to be heartbroken at the apparent ineptitude of the opposition party. It hit me today why the Democratic Party seems too inept in dealing with the rampant corruption. They are a willing participant in it. <skip>

Uncomfortable? Well, don’t fall for the “we are not in power” mantra. Sure the dems wield no real power but they choose to remain in that position by refusing to create their own progressive identity. They are mostly content to be the stepchildren in the government, happy with the scraps that fall from the master’s table. Disagree? Ask yourself how many democrats voted for the Patriot Act, stripping you of your civil liberties. Granted the first go around was difficult because of the fervor after 9-11, but Russ Feingold still had the moral clarity to not give in and voted “no”. Ask yourself how many democrats voted for the recent bankruptcy law, financially enslaving this country while doing nothing to address the predatory lending practices of major credit card companies. Sure not a single GOP House member voted against it but did you know that nearly 40% of the House democrats voted for it as well? Why? Because they ponied up to the trough and feasted on the 40 million dollars in contributions made to congress over the past eight years by the credit card lobby. That is right America. They sold you out just as quickly as the republicans did, just not on the same scale. Still if the GOP never sees any of their order dissent and they can get 40% of the democrats, then that is why their control is as tight and ruthless as it is.

Still unconvinced? How about the recent law enacted to curb class action lawsuits? This law serves no interest other than corporate profits. The GOP did a masterful job of making us think that out of control lawsuits were behind the rise in healthcare but every study has proven that is bunk. Frivolous lawsuits accounts for less than 1% of healthcare costs. The GOP knew that but lied anyway to push their oppressive agenda. The frightening thing though is the bill passed in the Senate 72-26 and in the House 279-149. That means there were plenty of democrats who chose to protect companies at the cost of human beings.

Votes like this happen all the time. How many democrats supported the Iraq War? How many have done anything serious to see it end? How many supported the protestors? Their identity as stepchildren is a choice. It is a conscious decision to play the game the way it is set up, knowing that being number two in a game where they get to share in the profit of corruption is better than being number three, on the outside looking in. There first duty is the same as the GOP. It is not to protect their constituents. It is not to protect their party. It is to protect the status quo. Protecting the system guarantees a spot at the trough for them, even if they have to wait to feed when their step-parents are done feeding. Are they as bad as the GOP? No. They are corruption-lite. Make no mistake about it though. In that role they are very much part of the problem. <skip>

But we wake up every day thinking that it is democrats versus republicans. The sad truth is that one is no better than the other. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Our system is no longer set up to benefit or protect us. Our environment is destroyed in the name of corporate profits. Our elected officials are bought and paid for by people representing corporate interests keeping the rich powerful and the poor impotent. Our children go off to die in wars based on lies, and we have to actually debate if we should stay or go while we wave little American flags made in China. The debate is what continues to divide us. The illusion that there are only two coherent lines of political thought is crippling this democracy. There has to be more than the vanilla republicans and the chocolate democrats. Until we truly get progressive in our political thought in this country we will be choosing between corruption and corruption lite, and not liking either flavor.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. A Point I Forget To Mention In My First Post Here!!
I agree with you, but don't have any answers.

Being political is part of my daily life, I eat, sleep and drink it. I follow the issues, read the reports, vote and campaign, but sometimes I really wonder why I'm driving myself so CRAZY!! Other people ask me the SAME question.

I'm actually driven by the fact that I believe what THE GOVERNMENT does affects almost every aspect of my life. Not every issue, but those that don't affect me, affect others. I keep telling myself that's why I keep hitting myself over the head. Some days I just end up SCREAMING at my TV, radio, newspaper, periodical or whatever all day long!! Yes, it's CRAZY!!

Old habits die hard!
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey... If ONLY We Could Make The Case!!!
I recently decided to go to a Green Party meeting. Al 20 of us there! I'm much more in tune with them, but even though they are staunch in their "Green " belief, they actually said they were never really formed to put forth a Presidential candidate.

I've also thought that we should have some sort of "question time" type thing that the Brits do. That COULD be extremely beneficial, but ain't gonna happen. Democrats have the upper hand right now, even though they haven't really worked at it. But if they don't get some shit in their necks, I say let 'em fall! The door is open, all they need to do is walk in!!!!!

As far as the indictment stuff of today... I just think there's more coming. And I don't say this lightly because I wasn't one of those who felt even Libby was going to get hit.

Lifestyle today dictates instant gratification, we're a "throw away" society and have forgotten that America is a Republic operating on the "theory" of Democracy. I'm extremely frustrated MOST OF THE TIME, and want some ACTION, but most people just won't make that serious commitment to a 3rd party and when they do, they HAVE to compromise to the Party that sings closest to their tune.

So we tout Democracy, but bow down to ONLY two Parties! It's really sad. Now, I think I'm gonna :puke:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. I see 4: Neos+Fundies; Traditional Repub; DLC Dems + Progressives/
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 08:28 PM by mod mom
Green. I fall into the last category-I am a progressive first and Democrat second.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. i wasn't before; now i am ...
i've always been a Democrat or at least an independent who always voted for Democrats ...

but now i'm at where you're at ... i am a progressive first and a Democrat second ...

i see job one as doing all i can to make the best progressive arguments i can make in the hope that i will have an effect on elected Democrats and their supporters ... i think i have an obligation to participate in the Democratic Party and fight for change ...

but in the end, my vote, my money and my campaign work will go first to progressive Democrats and then to progressives of other parties ... "establishment" Democrats need not apply ...

having said that, i am willing to seek compromise but i don't believe i've heard any offers from the Democratic Party's hierarchy ... i hear screams for unity and insults being hurled back and forth but i see no vehicle for real communication ... without that, there will be no unity anymore ... at least not with me ...
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Center-left populists are still not represented under your 4-party system
I say we should have a 5 party system, the fifth party being for the Casey-FDR old school liberals, who are socially conservative but economically liberal.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hey...the more the merry. Why should we be pegged into either/or.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. I really thought center/left populist was code for DLC
and visa versa.
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. No third party without proportional representation
That is the only way for a third party to every win anything.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Instant runoff voting
i think IRV is more likely than proportional representation ... if we had IRV, people could vote for the best ideas without "throwing away" their votes ...
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. YES!!!
....a strong viable Third Party with a strong viable progressive-left ideology and matching programs....built tough and for the long-term....I'm ready, hoping and praying to see this (at least begin) before I die....unless....

....Dean hand-picks a new chairman successor and resigns in the summer of '07 to lead a nation wide progressive movement (and campaign) from within the Democratic Party....

....and that would be only after we've done battle with the DLC'ers and corporate suckups, returning them back to their proper boxes at the edge of the Party....unlikely....

....so, I'm still ready, hoping and praying for a new progressive 'direction' lead by new, intellegent, progressive people who can get new, intellegent, progressive things accomplished....people, who are motivated by something other than money....
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
15. We need lots of things. They won't happen. People are too happy with
the status quo.

The two major parties, whores to the same pimp, will always remain.
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