Dems need to EMBRACE the WAR!!!!!!!!!

[Walt Starr]

No, not the Iraq war, the CULTURE WAR.

But no, the Democratic Senators in their wimpy fear will let it go again. They will cower behind their couches to make the big bad Bushie go away until another day. They will roll over and play dead yet again.

Remind me again why I (used to) vote for Dems?

[undergroundpanther]

1. This is for the dems who believe

And refuse to denounce the theocrats tyring to make the world like they are.

Who Will Save Your Soul
by Jewel

People living their lives for you on TV.
They say they're better than you and you agree.
He says, "Hold my calls for me I must go."
The Boss says, "Come here boy. There ain't nothin' for free."
Another doctor's bill, a lawyer's bill,
Another cute cheap thrill
You know you love him if you put him in your will but...

Who will save your souls when it comes to the flowers now
Who will save your souls after all the lies that you told, boy
Who will save your souls if you won't save your own?

We try to hustle them, try to bustle them, try to cuss them
The cops want someone to bust down on Orleans Avenue
Another day, another dollar, another war, another tower
Went up to where the homeless had their homes
So we pray to as many different gods as there are flowers
But we call religion our friend
We're so worried about saving our souls
Afraid that God will take his toll
That we forget to begin

Who will save your souls when it comes to the berries now
Who will save your souls after all the lies that you told, boy
Who will save your souls if you won't save your own?
La da de da...

Some are walking, some are talking, some are stalking their kill
Got social security, but that it doesn't pay your bills
There are addictions to feed and there are mouths to pay
So you bargain with the Devil, say you're o.k. for today,
You say that you love them, take their money and run
Say, it's been swell, sweetheart, but it was just one of those things
Those flings, those strings you've got to cut,
So get out on the streets, girls, and bust your butts.

Who will save your souls when it comes to it baby
Who will save your souls after all the lies that you told, boy
Who will save your souls if you won't save your own?
La da de da...

[undergroundpanther]

2. saving souls? forgetting reality

Dems who refuse to denounce the theocrats forcing others to live like they are or suffer..this song is for you.Fuck the Theocrats end thier "war"on us.

Who Will Save Your Soul
by Jewel

People living their lives for you on TV.
They say they're better than you and you agree.
He says, "Hold my calls for me I must go."
The Boss says, "Come here boy. There ain't nothin' for free."
Another doctor's bill, a lawyer's bill,
Another cute cheap thrill
You know you love him if you put him in your will but...

Who will save your souls when it comes to the flowers now
Who will save your souls after all the lies that you told, boy
Who will save your souls if you won't save your own?

We try to hustle them, try to bustle them, try to cuss them
The cops want someone to bust down on Orleans Avenue
Another day, another dollar, another war, another tower
Went up to where the homeless had their homes
So we pray to as many different gods as there are flowers
But we call religion our friend
We're so worried about saving our souls
Afraid that God will take his toll
That we forget to begin

Who will save your souls when it comes to the berries now
Who will save your souls after all the lies that you told, boy
Who will save your souls if you won't save your own?
La da de da...

Some are walking, some are talking, some are stalking their kill
Got social security, but that it doesn't pay your bills
There are addictions to feed and there are mouths to pay
So you bargain with the Devil, say you're o.k. for today,
You say that you love them, take their money and run
Say, it's been swell, sweetheart, but it was just one of those things
Those flings, those strings you've got to cut,
So get out on the streets, girls, and bust your butts.

Who will save your souls when it comes to it baby
Who will save your souls after all the lies that you told, boy
Who will save your souls if you won't save your own?
La da de da...

[undergroundpanther]

3. OOps

Didn't mean to post twice,I got an error window.But it went through anyways oh well.

[Autonomy]

4. What specifically do you suggest

they do to embrace the culture war?

Why do you vote Democratic? Because they are competent and effective when they're in office. What else is there?

[tx_dem41]

5. Remind me again why you're here.

:shrug:

[Walt Starr]

9. Same reason as you n/t

[Pirate Smile]

6. What did I miss? Why are you assuming they won't fight?

We need to get the information out, have the hearings, vote in Committee - all that has to happen before we get to where they can filibuster.

I haven't heard any Dems sounding please or happy with this nomination.

Why are you talking about not voting for Democrats when the fight has just started?

[sandnsea]

7. You're not helping

Have you missed the strong statements that came out against Alito today? What is your major malfunction? Either repeat the memes on the weakened Bush Presidency and pandering to the radical right, or STFU. I am so goddamned sick of Democrats fighting these bastards tooth and nail for the last year, only to have this shit posted time and again. How many times can the same person post "wow, a spine" and not have it sink into their fucking head that they've been posting that for well over a year. Fed up with this shit. Join the fight or shut up.

[noahmijo]

8. Just like Wyatt Earp said

"Get to fightin or get away!"

If you're pissed at certain Democrats get off your ass and tell them about it, but the fact of the matter is so long as the majority of said Democrat has his/her base of voters in lockstep they won't change much.

[sandnsea]

12. Democrats ARE fighting

Are you going to join them or throw rocks at them from behind?

[noahmijo]

14. Don't talk to me about joining them

I joined in the fighting all year last year and to this continue to support the Democrats locally and nationally.

SO far I'm the only person on this board from what I can tell that continues to defend Kerry's IWR vote as being misinterpreted by the left and used by the right as a means to FALSLY portray him and other Democrats.

The fact of the matter is I am sick and tired of fighting more with so called other Democrats who spend more time whining about why X Democrat isn't perfect for them and as I didn't make so clear in my post my point was is that if you're pissed off join the fight write letters to whatever Democrats you think aren't doing enough otherwise sit down and shut up because you're not helping by making threats like "Oh I'm just gonna never vote Democrat again because they aren't far left enough for me"

People like that are USELESS they accomplish NOTHING and they piss me off more than Repukes do because I can't stand having to argue with them in the same manner I do with repukes.

[sandnsea]

16. We're agreeing, more or less

I agree about contacting your Reps if you don't like a vote, I am lucky in that I don't have to do it very often because mine are pretty good. I do it when it's necessary though. But to just begin bashing when there's a unified Democratic message to get out there pisses me off no end. And you are not the only one on this board that is pissed off about the way the IWR vote has been portrayed, or knows that the left helped portray that vote in a way that helped Bush enormously. Maybe visit the Kerry forum and you won't feel so alone in some of this.

[noahmijo]

21. Well ultimately the way I see it first step do what it takes

to knock the repukes outta power.

THEN when the Democrats control the helm THAT'S the time to start throwing stones if they are running a "repuke-lite" ship.

Being that our nation was born of revolution I fully believe that no matter who is in charge they need to be reminded everyday that they are OUR workers they do what they're told, (politicians that is) by the people THAT should be the message for ALL politicians you were put in by the people and hence we can toss your ass out by the curb if we want to but sadly that ideaology has been lost for some time now.

Point being though is that at least with Democrats in power they don't have the PNAC and Big Oil to kiss up to. We at least have a chance at getting them to put forward measures that are good for the nation as history has proven with the Democrats. Sure we'll never agree 100% even with the Democrats that we highly respect, but it's a damn sight better than dealing with some repuke whose mantra is "fuck you I'm in and I'm not going anywhere nor am I changing for anyone cept Exxon and Halliburton"

[BL611]

26. I'm with ya!

and for what its worth I have Been trying to defend Kerry & Clinton's vote on IWR.

As for the OP The Dem's don't need to engage in anything of the sort, the Dem's need to combat the divisiveness of the right by putting together a platform that will HEAL this country, not placate the left. You want to have a culture war, maybe you shouldn't be voting for Democrats...

[noahmijo]

28. I believe in fighting the culture war but the war I am in involves

Sane intelligent thinking fact finding individuals versus theocratic facists who make Calivinists look like Buddhists.

:)

[BL611]

30. Unfortunately as DU can often illustrate

many of the left fall into the former...

[noahmijo]

31. That is the problem with the left wing

It's a blessing and a cruse. It's not that we are all individually minded we can intelligently debate we're not in lockstep like sheep like the pukes are.

This is also our curse though we can never band together just long enough to form a shot of power to oust the pukes. Spend too much time bickering and going to war over bullshit as opposed to making a strong unified stance against the evils of the lockstep sheep wingnuts.

[Walt Starr]

10. Big Ed is agreeing with me

Reid's doing the right thing.

we'll see...

[sandnsea]

11. So support Reid

That's my point. If Big Ed is railing against Democrats, then fuck him too. I am sick to goddamned death of it. The way to win is to advocate a point of view, NOT bash Democrats and continue to act as if they aren't doing anything. Why would people vote for a party who is perceived as not doing anything. Why do you keep pushing that bullshit.

[Walt Starr]

15. Now is the time for them to prove themselves

If they fall one Senator short, as far as I'm concerned, it is unacceptable.

One Senator short.

This is my line in the sand. This far and no further.

[sandnsea]

17. You prove yourself

For once, help get the message out there instead of bashing Dems. We can't win unless we have the support of the people. They have to know what they're supporting and 45 people in the Senate can't educate the entire country. Bashing Dems is a complete waste of time, I would have thought we would have learned that last year. But no, people are still standing on the sidelines throwing rocks, thinking that the rest of the crowd will be impressed with their "balls".

[Walt Starr]

18. I have not bashed a Dem today

Not yet.

This is my core issue and is fundamentally why I am in the Democratic Party and fundamentally why I have voted straight Democratic ballots for nearly a quater century.

I stood behind what happened with Roberts, even though I opposed Roberts.

I stood behind them when they confirmed Hughes, even though I thought that was the biggest mistake the Senate ever made (and her actions since her confirmation have born me out).

This is it. This single nomination is the crux of why I have been a Democrat. If the Democrats in the Senate allow it to go down without a fight, then I was wrong for nearly 25 years.

[sandnsea]

24. You are bashing right now

Why are you saying "without a fight"? That is complete bullshit. THE Dem Leaders are fighting, YOU are whining. Join the fight or STFU. If you don't, the right wing will win because they will get their talking points out there while the left throws rocks at Democrats. That's what happened with Roberts.

[Walt Starr]

33. Anything short of a filibuster will be to not fight

Sorry, that's my standard. Filibuster, or I've been wrong in my political choices for nearly a quarter century.

[StClone]

13. Here's their new text book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1581824599/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/102-3670082-6557768?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

[undergroundpanther]

19. Dem's need to

begin to stand up stronger for PLURALITY equal rights for all and to stand by the poor the different the minorities and articulate they have a right to be .The Culture war on the right seeks to make people be as they are or suffer or be deemed second class citizens.

In america we are all equal under the law and have human rights.

The Dem's need to say the theocracy want to create a system where they have more rights than others. Where the rich have more rights.

This is very un american.And if the Dem leadership is cowed by theocratic bullies or bought into silence with money or black mail than WE need to take it to the streets and let these right wing bullies know their tyranny hierarchy and desire to remake the world in their own image will not be tolerated.

We must live together and that requires live and let live. If the fundamentalists will not let us live when we are not harming others,than they are tyrants.The fundies DO harm and they intrude and try to control the public space and make it theirs only. They want to make the public a christians only place.

I for one do not want separate and unequal to be seen as good in this nation.But these theocracies do.Because they are basically narcissists. I do not need the church's approval to be who I am and think say and believe what I do,How DARE they claim to have moral authority with the agenda they have to dominate and run my life.

Theocrats and Neocons are in fact morally inferior because they do not think it's fascism when THEY do it. I have the moral understanding that fascism is wrong even when I seek it to stop theocracy.Even if my desire comes out of my own urge to survive.I will not try to rule the world and force it to become like me or suffer. However tyrants do not have that moral superior understanding that comes from having a conscience and feeling empathy..
The only way to assert a better culture is to assert your agenda. And mine is not to be forced to convert or die,not to be forced to be a second class citizen because of WHO I AM..

[donheld]

20. Dems need to go on the offense against this

Instead of playing chicken shit defense all the time.

[walldude]

22. Boy Walt.. can o' worms you opened hmmmm...

Just because the Dems are our only viable alternative does not mean we need to kiss their asses. I assume those of you defending the Dems are for the 43 Dems who voted to extend and expand the Patriot Act. You heard right 43 freaking Dems voted against "sunsetting" the Patriot Act, making much of it permanent and extending other parts for 10 years. The PA is so bad that 14 Repubs actually came over to our side on the vote. If the Dems had all voted against it we would have beaten it back. Yes there are Dems fighting the good fight, but not enough of them. Noahmijo is right in that we need to get power back, but after that we need to clean fucking house.

[sandnsea]

25. Support the Senate version then

Quit pissing about 43 Dems in the House and support the Senate version that the ACLU & PFAW are supporting. People have to know there is another option in order to get behind it. Don't let the right paint you into an all or nothing corner.

[walldude]

29. Oh ok.. I should just let the Dems in the House vote

against my best interest and not piss about it. Thats really clever, I got fucking news for you, the Repukes control the Senate as well. The bill the ACLU is supporting will never pass. I can call my senator and and ask him to not vote to extend the PA,but he is one of the 9 who voted against the McCaine torture bill,
Yeah that will do alot of good. :eyes:
I love how you give yourself permission to bitch that not everyone supports every Dem but I'm not allowed to bitch. Get off your high horse, there are alot of dems out there who don't deserve your support.

[sandnsea]

32. The Senate bill ALREADY PASSED

Yes, we can absolutely get the Senate version through final committee if we focus on it instead of pissing about Dems. It has the support of many on the right too, it has every chance in the world of being authorized. How is anybody supposed to know which to support if all you do is complain about 43 Dems who "support keeping America safe by voting for the Patriot Act". If people know there's a better option, they'll choose the better option. You aren't helping give them the better option, you're just telling them that 43 Dems voted for the ONLY option they know about.

[LittleClarkie]

23. Yeah, thanks for your support

I'm not sure you'd notice if they WERE fighting, since you seem to have already made up your mind that they will not.

[seabeyond]

27. and the dems on this board will continue to over state their case

in drama and hyperbole