Howard Dean and DNC: Grow a spine & stand up for what WE believe !

[xyboymil]

On Hardball with Chris Matthews, Dean was just berated by Tweetie over and over about the Democrats views on being pro-choice.

Dean was asked no less then 3-4 times does the democratic party support the pro-choice position?

Dean danced around the answer every time and said the Democratic Party believes the government should stay out the peoples private lives when it comes to these decisions. Matthews pressed him further about why he couldn't just say is the Democratic Party THE party of pro-choice? Dean again danced around the answer and regurgitated the same answer he gave before.

HOWARD: Just fucking say it. Say "yes, the Democratic party is pro-choice and we believe in a womans right to choose."

WHY is this so hard for Dem's to just take a damn stance and say whats on their mind?

Here's a clue: You cant have it both ways. You WILL not be able to get votes from the moderate to left AND the conservative right wing. IT wont happen. This isnt Burger King and you cant have it your way. It's whats screwed this party ever since Clinton left.

I'm sorry people. I support my party and I hate Bush with a passion but the Democratic "leadership" in this country needs to grow a spine and do it now!

Enough of these wishy-washy answers to hard-core beliefs our party has.

ENOUGH! :mad:

[liberalnurse]

1. Dean falls into the category of explaining too much....

Tweety and pundits always cut him off while he speaks and then Dean looks like he's catching up. Dean need to control his answers better to avoid this predicable pitch he always swings at...

Dean is a physician first and it shows. It is a common behavior of medical intellectuals.

[karynnj]

6. I am not a big Dean fan, but Tweety and "pundits" have

the advantage: they control the microphone. I put pundits in quotes, because I don't think these people are pundits in the real sense of the word.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. THANK YOU!!

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this. They're upset that Matthews berated him on the question, but Dean wouldn't have been berated if he just said, "Yes, we are a pro-choice party." And then explain that pro-choice means that it's a woman's right to choose what kind of healthcare she gets.

What's so freakin' hard about saying that? Who gives a shit how Republicans interpret "pro-choice"?

Just say it!

On edit: If the Democratic Party keeps acting like they're afraid to take a position on important issues, then we'll continue to lose no matter how bad the Republican Party gets. Because Republicans say what they stand for and don't care what others think about their positions on the issues.

[blm]

My guess is that Tweety was so aggressive about it, Dean didn't want to

let go of his own preference to frame it...so he dug in.

[mazzarro]

27. Dean has caught the DLC bulls**t like most of the party leadership

Dancing around issues and avoiding direct confrontation with the rethugs will not change things for progressives. The sooner progressives start to be aggressive in taking stands and defending them, the sooner the general will take them seriously enough to listen and contemplate the progressive points of view. Performances like these only embolden rethugs to continue even in their wrong and evil ways; knowing that progressives cower when confronted with controversial issues.

[flpoljunkie]

30. Dean even explained how Roe v. Wade works, and that only in the first

trimester does the woman have an unfettered right to an abortion without interference by the state.

Yes, I, too, was disappointed that he would not say our party is pro-choice, after explaining that Roe v. Wade has always had restrictions, which, unfortunately, many people are not aware.

Your description regarding Dean--he "dug in" is absolutely right. I wish that he had not done so as it looked like he was backing off our party's long stand on women's reproductive rights that is expressed as "pro-choice."

Otherwise, Dean was a very effective advocate for our party.

[catmother]

13. well said connie

we've got to stand up for what we believe. what's so terrible about saying "pro choice".

matthews is pro choice. he made a statement about 6 months ago that he thinks abortion is wrong but that he doesn't want to live in a country where a woman doesn't have the right to chose.

[hfojvt]

17. actually many times they do not

they run as 'honest bob' who has great character and will always tell the truth. They are not out front about how far right they are, they are not honest about the social programs they will gut. Once they are in office, they still lie about what they are doing - 'this is not a tax cut for the rich,' this is the 'healthy forest bill,' the 'clear skies bill'. We are going to 'reform' social security or the Federal Income Tax.

The big difference is that the Chris Matthews and Tim Russerts do not play hardball with Republicans. They are partisan shills.

[LittleClarkie]

23. Why should he change the way he's always answered that question?

That wasn't him skirting or dodging. That was a DOCTOR'S opinion about the role of government in a woman's life.

Don't let Tweety frame the issue.

[mazzarro]

28. Dean is heading a political party and not a medical forum n/t

[LittleClarkie]

29. We knew what we were getting when he was elected

Dean the candidate answered that way. If he would have become president, Dean the President would have answered that way. It's how he always frames that issue. It's likely what he believes. And it's not mutually exclusive from choice.

[kenny blankenship]

3. A woman's body is her property, end of story.

what Democrats MUST learn to do is to ground their positions on shared principles (values) which they can leverage to defend important freedoms like reproductive choice. Western individualism STARTS with this value: my body is my exclusive property, for all intents and purposes it is synonymous with my life.
Republicans have to be confronted with arguments like these (a woman's body is her exclusive property) because clobbering them over the head with this assertion puts them in the position of contradicting their own set of principles in order to do what they propose, which is to take away a woman's sovereignty over her own body, in the name of tribal/religious humbuggery.

[xchrom]

4. some measure of success has been gained by republicans

because they have appeared to be direct.
the listeners interpretation is that republicans were more authentic.

not a sophisticated audience mind you -- but america is not big on sophistication.

[mestup]

5. Safe, Legal, and Rare.

You'd think the Dems could at least say that on MSM newstainment shows, without fear.

:shrug:

[Pirate Smile]

7. I think he is trying to change the "frame" of pro-life v. pro-choice.

We are always arguing with the words and frames the RW set up.

It won't change quickly but I believe that is what he is trying to do.

"We are for families making their own personal decisions without governmental interference, etc."

I knew what he was trying to do but the media is going to have to learn the new terms and language.

edit to add - He is trying to frame the personal and family privacy issues to include the Terri Schiavo issues, etc. The RW wants the government making the most difficult and important decisions for families - from conception to death. The Democrats don't think the government should be doing that - let people with their families and physicians make those decisions.

[Connie_Corleone]

8. Unfortunately, that phrase doesn't fit on a bumpersticker.

If it takes that many words to say the Party is pro-choice, then it's not going to work.

[Pirate Smile]

12. We have a little time to get people used to this before the next election.

In this frame, every time the issue of abortion comes up, the Democrats get to frame it in a way that brings up the Terri Schiavo debacle by the Republicans.

We know how unpopular that was and people do NOT want Congress making those decisions.

It is new. It will take a little time to get used to but we will.

[madfloridian]

9. He is refusing to use the terms. Get govt out of personal decisions.

He is being very stubborn about using the pro-choice and pro-life terms because he says the right wing has distorted them

He said get the government out of our personal family decisions.

[sandnsea]

10. Get the message, we're the party of privacy

People want us to reframe, then when we do, they bitch about that too. Privacy. Repeat. Privacy. Not interfering in marriage and other personal choices, from abortion to terminal illness to assisted suicide. Abortion is a private decision between a woman and her doctor. THAT is what we stand for. That is, in fact, what Roe protected. Privacy.

[WePurrsevere]

25. Actually that makes a whole lot of sense & might bring Dems more votes...

from the "undecided" folks and Independents. Perhaps if we combine that with the a cliche' such as "Pro-Choice IS Pro-Life" and consistently and repeatedly reframe the term "pro-life" to "anti-choice" and "anti-privacy" more and more folks will start using those terms and over time more and more Americans thoughts and beliefs will follow.

[Debi]

11. What's wrong with his response?

It's not just about women being able to get an abortion, I believe it's about women being able to choose what type (if any) birth control they use, when to get tested for pregnancy or STD's and other reproductive health care issues (mammograms and pap smears).

The government doesn't tell us to go to the doctor when we have a cold, nor does the government tell men to go to the doctor to have that sprained ankle checked out (I know, I'm over simplifying this). Why should the government have the right to regulate how we'll manage our reproductive health care? It's none of the government's business.

So, why is his response wrong? Why should he walk in to the trap of 'Howard Dean says "abortions for all, just join the Democratic Party"'? Seems "stay the hell out of our medical decisions" is a better response.

[xyboymil]

14. Becase that reponse wont fit on a bumper sticker or a 30 sec commercial..

I know what your trying to say and I know what Howard was trying to say.

But guess what? The Republican Party doesnt go into 1-2 minute drollings about what their party stands for.

They can say it very easily: "We believe in traditional marriage between 1 man and 1 woman. We believe in pro-life. We believe we are fighting the "terrorists" over there so we dont have to fight them here. We believe in the Iraq War.."

and on and on. Can you see how many thing I just covered in a few sentances?

Dem's need to do the same thing...NOW!

We are pro-choice.

We support gay marriage.

We went to war over lies and thousands are dead because of it.

We believe the gas prices in this country are outrageous and they need to stop now.

We believe the Republican party is destroying our environment.

We believe the national deficit is out of control and george Bush and his irresponsible spending is chiefly to blaim.

HOW hard is this?!?!??!
:kick:

[Debi]

20. We support right to privacy.....

Seems to fit and incorporates reproductive health care, gay marriage, right to chose whether or not to exist in a vegetative state or die with dignity.

We believe in the right to privacy
Stay out of our bedrooms and out of our doctors offices!

:shrug:

[givemebackmycountry]

15. Here how about this....

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM, THAN YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE AN OPINION.

WHY SHOULD RICH, WHITE MEN, CONTROL WHAT A WOMAN CAN OR CAN NOT DO WITH THEIR OWN BODY??

There.
How freakin' hard was that?

Will some Democrat in the room stand up, and PLEASE develop some freakin' balls??

God are we the party of pansy asses or WHAT?

Rove and his ilk would slit your balls off live on National Television if it could gain them and extra vote, an extra half a point.

What is it about my party that they can not learn that the playing field is not EVEN??

We have to gain every advantage we can, and going on these shows and appearing like we are a bunch of spineless wimps is going to KILL US ALL.

If you don't have any sac, then get the hell off the TV.

gggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

[xyboymil]

16. Amen brother ! Amen!

:toast:

[msongs]

18. pssst...men HAVE a reproductive system......nt

[Debi]

22. What man has carried a baby to term? But I get your point n/t

[LittleClarkie]

24. Do we have that many gender neutrals in this country?

A penis is part of the reproductive system, isn't it?

Or have we become a nation of tribbles?

[catmother]

19. the subject of abortion came up

on the view a few months ago. and joy baher said that if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available at "super cuts".

[LittleClarkie]

21. That's not dancing. That's Dean's way of reframing.

He has ALWAYS answered that way about that issue. And I like his answer. Why should the governement stick their noses into the private lives of people. His take should appeal to Libertarians, actually.

[LittleClarkie]

26. Howard Dean stands up for what HE believes

Sorry if it doesn't match what you think WE believe.

And what's with the WE anyway. Speak for thyself, friend.