Why the animosity between the Kerry and Dean supporters?

[republicansareevil]

Why the hostility between suuporters of any two candidates for that matter? But the Kerry-Dean feud is the one I've seen the most of recently. I realize that until a winner is declared, it's not exactly accurate to say "we're all on the same side," but still... Why alienate potential voters like that? I don't have bad feelings toward any of the candidates although I can see both the good and the bad in every single one of them. But I never gloated when anyone dropped out, and I never thought of any of them as "the enemy". :shrug: :cry:

[NWHarkness]

1. I'm with you

I will be voting for Dean in the Michigan caucus, but I respect and admire John Kerry and will gladly support him if he is the nominee.

[PVnRT]

2. Their intense hatred of Dean

leaks over to his supporters as well.

[bushwakker]

25. not me

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. I agree.

There are people who behave poorly on both sides and it's too bad we aren't allowed to name names..if we could I would shame them all into waking the fuck up and recognizing the FUTURE damage they are doing.

[Mass_Liberal]

4. because Kerry and Dean represent two different things

Personally I think that Kerry is overall a good guy. So are his supporters. But Dean supporters support Dean because they are tired of the way the Democratic party conducts its business. Kerry has supported some liberal causes, but like many democrats, shifted to the center when the pressure got tough (IWR).



Dean represents people who say we should stand up to the president, always. Whether its popular or not, we need to do whats right, and stop buckling. We are the opposition party, and its time, whether we support Kerry or Dean or whoever, to start OPPOSING!

[dsc]

5. See this thread

and the several graceless responses within. It is literally one of several hundred I could show you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=225565

[Julien Sorel]

11. Any Kerry supporter could go back 6 months or so,

and find tons and tons of Dean supporter attacks on Kerry. When Kerry was down and out, Dean supporters were still all over him, kicking the shit out of him. I remember when he canned his campaign manager, you would have thought some Dean people had won the lottery, and he was polling in the single digits nationally at that point, and had announced he was self-funding. In fact, when he announced he was self-funding, that was another 'high' point for Dean people. And I won't even begin to go into the shit that Clark supporters went through here from Dean supporters. You people, as a group, have it coming, exactly like your candidate, with his constant attacks on the other candidates, and dishonest squirrelly campaign, had it coming.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[_NorCal_D_]

38. ROTFLMAO

And you wonder why Dean supporters receive such a bad rap? Or perhaps it's because of melodramatic nonsense like this?

That's it, I'm saying it: if Dean does not win I'm voting for Bush.

Why I will not vote for Kerry....

[LosAngelesDemocrat]

54. democratic vote for Bush is a vote for liberalism?

lol... I think I've heard studies in some Democratic think tanks that the long term viability of the democratic party is depends on bush getting elected and blamed for all that is going to happen. Economy, Iraq, Pro-choice, affirmative action, USDA food safety, environment.

That would be nice but the supreme court is a more immediate issue...
Really want to fix everything? it's not as trendy but taking back the Senate is more structural and important in my mind.

[dsc]

20. There is a difference between trashing Kerry and trashing Kerry's

supporters. Something that many Kerry people just don't understand. I have been called, and to my virtual face, a storm trooper, a diaper wearer, a liar, and unfit to offer my opinion due to being gay, all by Kerry supporters.

[sandnsea]

56. Uh oh, pot kettle

Forgetting about me? You called me a liar months ago. Liar, liar, liar, liar, as I recall. On several occasions.

[bushwakker]

24. they have been obnoxious

I like Dean and would happily support him ina GE - but his supporters here have not been respectful of those who support different candidates. I've never attacked Dean and never will. I think he's been treated badly by the press.

[LuminousX]

29. Yes, because when someone shoves you, you are authorized

to cause them as much harm as you think they deserve.

[Julien Sorel]

48. Actually when someone shoves you,

you are authorized to harm them as you think is necessary to prevent them from shoving you again. Or at the very least, to impress upon them the reality of the concept of reaping what you sow. Slightly different mentality.

[Catholic Sensation]

6. I don't hate Dean or the vast majority of his supporters

There are a few trolls on this forum who have nothing better to do than to provoke fights between the "camps," and they're the only ones who I dislike. The thing is, I haven't seen any threads by Kerry supporters saying they won't support anyone but Kerry, but have seen numerous Dean supporters saying "I won't vote for anyone but Dean," which is simply deconstructive to Operation American Freedom.

[bushwakker]

32. right on

Dean seems to have the only people who say that basically they will support the GOP in Nov if their man doesn't get the nomination. After what we've been through with this White House for anyone calling themselves a Democrat (this is after all Democratic Underground not democratic underground) to not support the nominee is beyond reason.

[THUNDER HANDS]

7. I don't hate Dean supporters

I just wish they'd stop bashing Kerry out of the blue, in threads that don't have anything to do with what they're attacking him about.

But I'm 100% behind Dean if he gets the nomination. To me, that's the biggest difference between Kerry and Dean supporters. I haven't seen ONE Kerry supporter who said he definately WOULD NOT vote for Howard Dean.

[TopesJunkie]

8. Because, because, because... --

Because of the sleazy things Kerry does.

[sistersofmercy]

9. I'm really not sure but it used to be the Dean supporters and the Clark

supporters going at it, a few months ago. :shrug:

[TheDonkey]

10. Kerry was an old frontrunner, Dean a new front runner, Dean is old front

runner, now Kerry is the new one.

That explains why there is so much hatred between the 2 camps. They have been battling for the top spot for over a year.

[Lefty48197]

12. The Dean/Kerry animosity reminds me of...

The Dean/Clark animosity and
the Dean/Gephardt animosity...
hmmm.....

[PVnRT]

13. Yeah, it's all our fault

We started cancer and terrorism and AIDS and puppy-kicking too.

[GalleryGod]

28. Point Well Taken ,Indeed!

:yourock: :pals: :kick:

[LosAngelesDemocrat]

51. Parallel Universes?

another version could be the McCain/Bush animosity on the other side of the political spectrum

[Amager]

15. Simple. Because Dean was assumed to be the anointed front runner

in Iowa and NH, and Kerry turned out to be the front runner.

And yes, the animosity is very unbecoming. The goal is the beat Bush.

[kaitykaity]

16. Kerry attack dogs attacked me, so screw 'em.

I tried to explain my doubts about Kerry in a totally
notflamey way, and instead of trying to assuage my
concerns, Kerry supporters called me a 'liar' and told
me I was not 'genuine'.

Okay fine whatever. Kerry got where he got because he
imitated Dean, and now he's starting to imitate Edwards.
He's a 'finger in the wind' politician, and Bush will
wipe the floor with him.

[sangh0]

17. You must be new

Kerry supporters are not the only ones who have had a hostile relationship with Dean supporters

[cthrumatrix]

18. to get back in the race early..Kerry and Gep attacked Dean...not exactly

with truths either...

[NashVegas]

19. Because of Kerry's Brilliant Campaign Strategy?

Found this when I was going through the DU archives, posted by Skinner, no less, in this great thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=7931

"It appears that the Kerry campaign plans to attack Dean as both too liberal and too centrist. Read these two quotes:"

If it really is a two-man race, Kerry hopes ultimately to argue that the party can’t afford to nominate the antiwar Dean. Another Kerry adviser says, “The Democratic Party isn’t going to want to nominate another 49er—a guy who loses 49 states, the way George McGovern did in 1972.”

and...

When Kerry finally does unload, for example, the theme will be that Dean is a phony because he really isn’t the progressive—or liberal—he claims to be. The Kerry team will focus on the fact that Dean has supported a balanced-budget amendment, opposes gun control, now supports the death penalty in some cases and has talked about raising the retirement age for Social Security. The Kerry team will use these issues to attack Dean’s character.

Interestingly enough, we saw plenty of evidence of this strategy right here in DU over the past several months.

[Hoppin_Mad]

21. The Kerry supporters are conflicted about supporting such a

mediocre, milquetoast middling candidate - it eats them up inside. They can't help but go postal on the backers of a man who more fire in his little finger, than Kerry has in his whole botoxed body :-)

edit - added Smileys so the humorless Kerry supporters who couldn't tell my post was toungue-in-cheek don't go postal :-)

[THUNDER HANDS]

34. LOL

Suuuuuure, we're conflicted.

We're conflicted about whether to thank the Dean campaign for making Kerry a better candidate.

Maybe we'll send you a card from the White House. :D

[sistersofmercy]

40. HERE IS WHY, LOOK HERE!

Actually there are other examples on this thread as well.

[meisje]

22. Kerry is DNC, Dean is not

very simple really

[GalleryGod]

26. So NOW We're Attacking the Democratic National Committee !?

Kerry will be the Nominee & President.

Dean will Not.:puke:

[GalleryGod]

27. Excellent Post count by Golly!

:nopity: :puffpiece: :tinfoilhat:

[sangh0]

31. "So NOW"?????

Dean has been attacking the DNC for months. It's nothing new

[AntiCoup2K4]

41. Kerry will NEVER be President.

He has nothing to run on against Bush, since he voted for most of what Bush did to destroy the country. People who are delusional enough to like Junior's agenda have no reason to vote him out office. Those who recognize the agenda for what it is won't vote for someone who helped him do it.

[sistersofmercy]

44. HERE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE< LOOK HERE!

See now if we wrote the same about Dr Dean, we have another gasket blown with the sharp scream "candidate bashing"

[bushwakker]

50. Would you rather have Pres. Kerry or Pres. Bush?

Did you vote for Gore? Or did you think there was no difference? Kerry would not have invaded Iraq if he had been president.

[zoeyfong]

60. I can honestly say that i care very little if it is pres. bush or kerry.

Kerry is player and a washington insider to the core, and i can not see him standing up to the republican congress. All he will do is cause america to lose even more respect for the democratic party. We have got to start thinking long term, and start building a party character that will command the respect of voters. Btw, i was completely opposed to people voting nader in 2000, but at this point, if kerry becomes the nominee, i think that the democratic party will have sunk so low that it does not deserve the vote of thinking people of conscience.

[zoeyfong]

57. exactly. kerry is part of the problem, not the solution.

Kerry made a disgusting political vote to support bush's bogus war, because he had one eye on his upcoming presidential campaign. Since then, he has thoroughly debased himself and what passes for his honor by waffling back and forth on his war support, depending on which way the political winds blow. Clearly dean has the most support based on policy; kerry's support is totally based on the perception of him as being 'electable.' The source of the animosity is not only that kerry would put his own political career ahead of what is good for america, but that now at the last moment, democratic voters appear to be selling out their priciples yet again in the hopes of winning at any cost.

[bushwakker]

45. This post makes no sense

we are at a sight called Democratic Underground and the Democratic National Committe is considered evil by some of the so called Democrats? The bottom line is that many of the Dean supporters are just the Nader crew in disguise.

[bushwakker]

36. What's wrong with the DNC?

You claim to be a Democrat but you think the Democratic National Committee is evil?

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. Well, McAuliffe certainly is...

But I suspect that DLC was probably the original intent. And the DLC has far too much influence in the DNC at present.

[ibegurpard]

23. I can only speak for myself

When I say that the germination of my disdain for Kerry and many Kerry supporters on this board occurred when Al Gore was repeatedly trashed as "unelectable", "has-been", "wooden", and other things we see thrown around here by people who then went on to sing the praises of Kerry. I had barely heard of Dean at this time. When Al Gore came out of the gate in the fall of '02 sounding the same populist themes that had stimulated his 2000 campaign and mounting more criticism of the bastard in chief than any Democrat currently in office was doing, I was prepared to back him unquestionably. However, the Al Gore trashing continued and then Al Gore dropped out, alledgedly because of lack of party support. Who emerged as the front-runner? Why John F. Kerry, of course. And what exactly had HE been saying critical of the Republicans while all of us out here were despairing that the Democrats were EVER going to stand up for us? Not a whole lot. Kerry supporters on this board even managed to confine all talk of Al Gore to one thread per day for a while after he dropped out. They fully expected the support to go to Kerry and when it went to Dean instead they went ballistic. And those are a few reasons why I don't like Kerry or many of his supporters here. As for whether I will actually vote for him if I have to? That remains to be seen.

[bigtree]

30. Man, I'm telling you

I'm warming to Dr. Dean. I think that everytime he challenges the administration with his special enthusiasm he paves the way for the party. The energy from his campaign has to have been the wind behind these large turnouts. That will benefit us all, no matter who the nominee is.

[ibegurpard]

33. I'm not so sure.

"The energy from his campaign has to have been the wind behind these large turnouts. That will benefit us all, no matter who the nominee is."

Not if the party continues to fuck him over, it won't.

[sillymikey]

39. Im not

Im not bashing anyone nor do I "hate" any of the other candidates in the race. Im simply for Dean and am going for Dean until he wins/drops out. Whatever happens.
Come November, I will vote for WHOEVER is going against Bush..

[bigtree]

47. You're right

I can't wait to shed McCuliffe

They do need to start turning to each other and pointing up areas of agreement. Or at least discuss their differences in ways that feature their own records and positions instead of cynical swiping.

[cthrumatrix]

37. He has an edge "this party needs"...many of them hit some "nice shots"

we need the exchange between the candidates in a Non-debate format.

I think how they back down or excel on issues is good for us to see.

I don't mind a fair dialogue ...I don't like gatcha shots but we need to see differences

[stickdog]

35. I don't know.

I like Democrats in general.

I think Dean got a raw deal from the corporate media, while Kerry -- despite having no money or large base of core support, despite trying to have it both ways on the war and despite having a long past that is ripe for opposition & media mining -- has largely gotten a free ride, even as he's assumed the front-runner "hot seat" that was the supposed explanation for Dean's intense media scrutiny.

IMHO, Kerry can't possibly beat Bush.

[frustrated_lefty]

43. At a gut level

I have NEVER been so fired up about any politician as I am about Dean. No other candidate has come remotely close, although there have been several who have had my respect. Going from a near certainty that Dean would be the nominee, to considering the possibility that Kerry would be the nominee arouses hostility. Without going into details which would inevitably become a massive flame, I DON'T trust Kerry to change anything, and I don't trust him to stand up for the moral position when it's a difficult stance to take. The possibility of having to vote for Kerry feels like:

"Meet the new boss,
same as the old boss."

[eileen_d]

46. I don't like Dean, and have been treated as a "sinner"

on DU for holding this opinion. I like Kerry, Clark, Kucinich, and increasingly Edwards... and I have defended them all (mostly the first two) against attacks from various (not ALL) Dean supporters.

I don't like Dean as a candidate and I don't like his personality. Last I checked, this was my right as an American and a Democratic Party member. I try not to let this dislike leak over towards people who support the candidate, but it's difficult, and I'm not a saint.

[bushwakker]

52. You get no respect

If you don't support Dean you're some kind of sell-out. As if only
the Dean supporters are true Democrats. I suspect most of them voted Nader in 2000 and will do so again in 2004. If you call yourself a progresive or a liberal and you don't vote for the Dem nominee in 2004 then you are a fool and will deserve the kind of governance that we've had since '01. You should also lose your right to whine about it.

[LosAngelesDemocrat]

49. dean v kerry... symbolmatic of far left v. democratic establishment?

What concerns me listening to reports that Nader might run opportunity to reform the democratic party is going to waste. The opportunity missed I am referring to is the consolidation of the left of the traditional democratic establishment and the newcomers to the party that Dean is so effective in bringing in. Dean supporters tend to be young, green, and very liberal as the new generation's version of hippies. As a Californian on the left coast, I see what this division on the left is causing i.e.. San Francisco mayoral election or Oregon presidential election 2000. With this election being so close, the consolidation of the democratic primary to a candidate to run against Bush is so much harder with a dirty campaign fought amongst democrats. If Kerry wins the democratic ticket (which it appears so) instead of concentrating moderate swing voters, he would have to heal some wounds on the far left. "You can win the battle but lose the war," is what I see happening. The battle being the democratic primary or the 2004 election, but the war being the viability of the democratic party and liberalism. The importance I see its to maintain democratic ideals...i.e. the "big tent" party, coalition forming, the party of inclusiveness, diversity, the party of compromise (multi-lateralism). It's one thing to advocate for your own candidate, but why create sore losers? Especially when you expect them to become your supporters when the primary is over?

The reason I say it is not unexpected is that I tie Nader's Presidential bid to the less than strong showing of Dean... i guess Nader feels that "green" values are being marginalized. So then, as a democrat, i would in a e-mail <[e-mail]> to his campaign take a CONCILIATORY APPROACH and put the emphasis on shared "liberal values" that the best thing for liberalism is to get Bush out. Since we do know... If Nader runs, there's a very strong threat that the democrats would lose Oregon or at the least force the democratic candidate to waste time in Oregon that could be better spent in a Swing state. Nader needs to feel that there is green value viability under the democratic tent.



let me know if you want a sample letter or local campaign strategies...

Democrat Meetup Volunteer

[markus]

58. Dean & Kucinich forces need to unite

in working their local Democratic structures. We will all have to hold our noses and vote for an annointed candidate comfortable to our congressional delegations and the national media.

That doesn't mean this fight is over. If anything, I'm even more pissed. In fact, I'm Mad As Hell, And I'm Not Going to Take It Anymore. But tearing down Kerry won't help.

Tearing down the corporatist party structure put in place in the 80s and 90s by the DLC is a worthwhile goal, and starting Feb. 4 I'm going to see what can be done to unite the progressive forces in the party to focus on the party as well as the election.

In all but the most entrenched Democratic locales, the party structure is the private club of a few. The party iself needs to be reformed to encourage more Deans and Kuciniches and fewer John Edwards and Joe Liebermans. And because the party insiders are such a small group, most precint/district/county level organizations are ripe for a take over by progressive forces (regardless of candidate).

So, who's in?

[republicansareevil]

53. Geez, I'm sorry I asked!

With the exception of a few helpful comments, most of the posts on this thread have just been more bashing. Well, I will tell myself that it's just a minority of supporters for each candidate (although I'm not at all sure that's the case) and try to focus on the positive comments I see from now on.

[TNMOM]

55. Being passionate about your candidate

doesn't have to result in hating your candidate's opponents. I don't hate Kerry or his supporters.

Before Howard Dean got on the national map, I supported Kerry, because I thought he had a shot at beating Bush.

Then I heard Howard Dean talk, and my mind was made up. Howard Dean will change this country. Howard Dean's campaign has won the hearts of progessives like me, and we're very emotional about his campaign. This is a chance to make a big change. I honestly think everyone who supports Dean believes he can make it happen. I can't not defend the candidate that I think will make the biggest change.

If for some reason, Dean doesn't win the nomination, I will vote for Kerry, or Clark or whoever is running against Bush. Because a small change is still better than no change.

[eyeswideopened]

59. Dean and Kerry are opposites... Dean not like Bush ... Kerry like Bush

That's why