Kerry: Letting the GOP frame the debate (again)

[ProfessorPlum]

Last night on NPR I heard a brief piece saying "Rebuplicans were attacking Kerry as weak on defense". This attack was never explained, nor who the Republicans were who were bringing it up. They did play a portion of Kerry's response, though:

(my paraphrase from memory)
"I voted for some of the largest defense budgets in this country's history. I voted for nearly every weapons system that has come up. The problem is, some of these folks have never met a weapons system they didn't like."

Let me preface this by admitting that maybe NPR edited his response to only capture the weakest part of it, but if not, then I have to ask WTF WAS THAT?

"I voted for some of the largest defense budgets in this country's history"??????

THAT is playing defense. THAT is letting the GOP frame the debate - with the implication that the only way to be strong on defense is by feeding the military-industrial complex huge sums of taxpayer money.

WHY couldn't Kerry have said something like this:

"If by weak on defense, you mean I won't start illegal wars against the consensus of the international community, then I am weak on defense. If by weak on defense, you mean I won't tear up international treaties left and right, and treat our most valuable allies with contempt, then I am weak on defense. If by weak on defense you mean I won't funnel billions of dollars to Halliburton in no-bid contracts for phony-baloney wars that do nothing to make this country safer, then I am weak on defense.

If, however, by "weak on defense" you mean I will not make the citizens of this country and the world safer from aggresion from others, by strengthening our alliances and intelligence services, then I declare myself to be orders of magniture stronger on defense then the laughable team currently running this country's defenses into the ground."

All I heard about for months on this board from Kerry supporters was how he was going to "take it to Bush". How he had a "fire in his belly", and what a great campaigner he is.

Yet in this response, all I can see is him playing defense, DEFENSE, to the f*cking Republicans, who all have only as much interest in the safety of this country in so far as it can enrich them personally. Here is a guy who took bullets in service to this country, and all he can do is whine that he has given the military-industrial complex all that it has asked for? Who's kidding who here?

NOW is the time for Kerry to stop being polite and start playing offense. THIS response is exactly what I feared when Kerry, of all people, won the first two states. I cannot bear to watch him play defense against this, the worst administration ever, for 10 more months. If he is going to lead this party, he's got to wake up and play offense against these criminals - as his supporters keep assuring us he is "waiting" to do. The time for waiting is over. The time for leading is now - he's got to start speaking the truth.

[Cheswick2.0]

1. Kerry is very consistant

"I voted for some of the largest defense budgets in this country's history. I voted for nearly every weapons system that has come up. The problem is, some of these folks have never met a weapons system they didn't like."

Isn't that kind of like his IWR vote? He is saying he voted for everything they put in front of him....but damn it they proposed too many?
It looks like he's just a boy who can't say no.

[creativelcro]

20. Which is typical of gigolos :)

[ProfessorPlum]

2. Ah, sorry, I see this is a dupe

But on the other hand, only one person on the other thread saw just how weak this response was. What the hell, Kerry?

Apparently, he also said "if all they can do is pick out a few votes, then let's have at it". - That part is a little better, but overall I still rate his response incredibly weak. He's got to stop letting them frame the questions.

[DFLforever]

14. I think you're expecting a little too much of Kerry, Professor

I think you're expecting Howard Dean.

Of course Kerry is going to let Bush frame the questions: he claims he has the best answers. That's been his chief argument as to why he's the most qualified and electable candidate. He claims he has the best foreign policy background: a decorated veteran, one who voted for the Iraq war but who, depending on circumstances, speaks out against it. Someone who can't be caught in a Rethug charge of being weak on Saddam or Osama or terrorism or defense.

From what I've observed of Kerry over the last year, he is a candidate who will play things safe.

[ProfessorPlum]

15. It's true

Dean is/was framing the debate and waking people up to the reality of the world beyond the bizarro world construct of reality that the media try to create.

If Kerry wants to lead, he has to do the same.

"Someone who can't be caught in a Rethug charge of being weak on Saddam or Osama or terrorism or defense."

The media has shown that if a candidate can't be caught out in an actual weakness, they will lie - lie viciously, without remorse, and repeatedly - to create such a weakness.

The problem with this strategy is that the Republicans (and media) are holding two pistols, shooting them at Democrats' feet. Kerry is saying "I'm the best dancer!"

He needs to stop worrying about how he is being painted and pick up a paintbrush (or allegorical pistol) himself.

[tom_paine]

17. Lovely analogy!

And true, too.

The problem with this strategy is that the Republicans (and media) are holding two pistols, shooting them at Democrats' feet. Kerry is saying "I'm the best dancer!"

You have just encapsulated the Democrats' strategy for the last two decades.

[Meldread]

3. This is exactly what I said weeks ago.

That Kerry was going to lose for many reasons but one of them is because he isn't going to frame the debate. Bill Clinton yesterday told Democratic Congressmen and women to do just that. Kerry must think because he's a vet that the Republicans are going to give him a pass. I have two words for him: Max Cleland.

[dusty64]

5. The media will

NEVER allow a Democrat to "frame the debate" and will throw every truth, lie, and innuendo at them. It's SO obvious when they cuddle and protect the chimp at the same time.

[ProfessorPlum]

7. There are some candidates in the race

who are quite good at framing the debate despite the media. Which is what we need right now.

If Kerry is leading our party, he needs to be one of them.

[tom_paine]

8. Exactly, dusty64!

Corporate TV (and other) Pravda now floats firmly in the Oily Wake of the Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media (Hitler and Stalin must be smiling in hell to see their old enemy starting to behave more like them) and writes for what they want to for however long they want them to, usually in the terms dictated and framed by the Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media.

Even if there are still uncorrupted "journalists" out there they are still pulled along in the Oily Wake by the sea changes in mores Corporate Consolidation and the Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media have caused, or perhaps...engineered.

[tom_paine]

4. If true, this is a bad sign, I agree

The simple truth is that a vast majority of Democrats STILL don't conceive fo what they are up against. The New Politikal Korrectness of Amerika doesn't allow for it to be discussed (at least in places where it might reach an audience of more than 50) in the "Liberal Media" and thus they'll never hear about it anyway. It's percolating up from the bottom through sites such as DU, but as long as the New Politikal Korrectness of the Empire has firm control of what is laughingly still referred to as the National Dialogue, th idea cannot engrain itself in anyone's consciousness unless they are very actively seeking (much more actively than most have the time or inclination for).

The bottom line is that it is very distressing to see Kerry retreating to the old ways. If this is true, it is as if he has taken Dean's downfall to heart and he has retreated to his shell like a turtle.

Which is bad news to the American People and for the Constitution and Bill of Rights, which are only hanging by a thread, anyway.

And I believe where there was a Buzzflash interview with a Professor who indicated that the Democrats STILL don't have anyone working on framing issues (he heard this directly from Leon Pannetta), even though they've been clobbered with them in the face for 20 years.

Sigh. This is bad news indeed. I hope either this post is in error or Kerry was havign a bad nightor Kerry gets in gear or loses completely.

Bad news.

NOTE: While I support Clark, I would also happily support Kerry and work for as well as donate to his campaign, but only if he doesn;t give us the "Daschle Plan for Kowtowing Before Emperors" that has worked SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well these past 3 years.

[MisterC2003]

6. Maybe the DLC IS the problem

Look the DLC is in bed with the corps just like the Pubbies. Simple statement of fact. The reason they don't have anyone in the Democratic party working on framing the debates is that they don't NEED anyone to do that -- the Pubbies are doing a fine job insofar as their corporate masters are concerned. It's not puzzling at all that the Dems have been getting mugged like this for so long, if you just follow the money.

[ProfessorPlum]

9. From what I can see so far, you won't have to worry about donating to K.

"I would also happily support Kerry and work for as well as donate to his campaign, but only if he doesn;t give us the "Daschle Plan for Kowtowing Before Emperors" that has worked SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well these past 3 years."

[HFishbine]

10. On the other hand

I understand your point and, by and large, concur. Those who make the excuse that the reich wing will never let a dem frame the debate fail to recognize that there are indeed some circumstances when the RW have no control; when it is entirely in the candidate's power to frame his message -- a head shot on live TV is one such instance.

On the other hand, Kerry did speak the truth about the threat of terrorism being exaggerated. Unfortuntaley, Kerry got a little taste of his own medicince when, just as he critisized Dean for saying that we are no safer with Saddam in custody, a couple other dems jumped on Kerry with the same righteous indignation, questioning how he could say such a thing. He was right though, and it was an instance where he framed the debate.

[ProfessorPlum]

11. good, I'm glad to see he is doing it, even to a small degree

but he's got to have the courage of his convictions and stick to it.

When it became obvious that the war was inevitable, Kerry made some noise about it last spring - saying we needed regime change here, Bush had the worst foreign policy ever, etc. But then the media raised a stink and he shut up. He can't back down like that because of the bought-and-paid-for media.

[tom_paine]

16. Bingo! Kerry can do anything he wants

He has to play it smart, yes, but he cannot let the Corporate Pravda herd him down the chute of their convenient script.

His job, admittedly, will be doubly hard, because he is operating on what has essentially become Total Right-Wing Turf. He cannot make even the tiniest gaffe without being Condit/Clintoned/Gored/Deaned 24/7.

Meanwhile, the Emperor gets deferetial treatment and a New Politikal Korrectness which prevents 99% of legitimate criticism from getting through to an audience of more than 50 and acts as bullhorn for RNC Talking Points and a Laundry for it's many Big Lies.

But he cannot turtle, or this ship is lost, and Bush may eke out a close victory in actual votes

(which of course will show up as a 12%, 49-state landslide inthe "results")

[poskonig]

12. The Dean flamethrower approach isn't even working with Democrats.

Kerry seems to be doing everything right to me.

[molly]

13. Someone out there likes him - very obviously!

[ProfessorPlum]

18. he's still dancing to their tune

I do wish he'd decide to make them dance a bit.

[blm]

21. Sorry, but the most knee-jerk in the race has been Dean.

He gets criticized for repealing all taxcuts, then decides he'll offer middle class taxcuts.

He gets criticized for his secularism, then he starts talking about Jesus.

He gets criticized for not having his wife on the campaign trail, and he brings his wife on the campaign trail.

[ProfessorPlum]

22. uh - I'm mostly talking about matters of life and death

and how Kerry frames them. Not the details of the beauty show.

[blm]

23. What I hear in context is ALL tough stuff.

He bats away their bullshit. Maybe you shouldn't get so upset over snippets.

[ProfessorPlum]

24. I'm waiting for the "fire in the belly", blm

Let's see him deliver.

[tom_paine]

25. You see, Professor, but that is why we are losing our freedom

our nation

our hope for a better future.

Because people have been trained (by using the tried and true methodolgies of psychomanipulation and repetititve "deep penetration" advertising techniques.

And what have they been trained to do, pay attention to the trivialities of the fashion show, to pore over and worry over the "process" instead of the issues.

It is not surprising that such a people as we (yes, you and I share our component of the blame) are having our freedom and nation stolen by the first group of brutes with the will and means to do so.

People only respond nowadays due to desensitivization if the TV tells them something 12 times
tells them something 12 times
tells them something 12 times
tells them something 12 times
tells them something 12 times

Corporate TV Pravda has hammered their negative Dean talking points home way more than 12 times
their negative Dean talking points home way more than 12 times
their negative Dean talking points home way more than 12 times
their negative Dean talking points home way more than 12 times
their negative Dean talking points home way more than 12 times

Mind you, I'm a Clark supporter, but you are correct that neither Clark nor Dean can be permitted to gain the megaphone that no one could stop them from having if they get the nomination because they are the ONLY TWO to challenege the Republican Matrix of Lies

Which is all I'd want Kerry to do, even just a little. Unfortunately I alsoe agree that he is among the least likely to do so.

So, naturally they have stuck. As we have witnessed many times before (and I personally remember during the days of the Old Republic, in retrospect, being susceptible to that kind of "Perception Management"), how often we find ourselves mouthing Bushevik Talking Points because they are easy and pre-canned fr us just as they are pre-canned for the Dittoheads and other assorted Brownshirts.

You should not be surprised to learn that the disease, as it were, affects us all.

All. You, me, everyone.

Very analagous to the Matrix. Very analagous to the Old Soviet Unions, with the exception that the Imperial Subjects of Amerika have no skepticism and no defenses against lies told them by Imperial Pravda.

It is so easy to inject any meme you want to into the dialogue with a multi-billion dollar Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media and a Mainstream Media that has all the "immunological" defenses of a dying AIDS patient.

I wonder if the German Social Democrats borrowed Nazi talking points when smearing their Communist rivals?

"Dean is unstable" "Gore invented the internet" "Clinton trashed the White House" and truth has NOTHING to do with it.

[Hep]

19. What can you do?

Kerry's been doing this all along, and no one cares. Why? Because they don't even know what "changing the debate" means.