Why Kerry is not Dukakis

[mot78]

The RNC seems to be going for a "paint Kerry as a Northeastern Liberal" strategy, like they did with Dukakis. However, Dukakis lost because he didn't fight back. He let Willie Horton and other charges stick, and he humiliated himself with the tank incident. Kerry will fight back, especially since Dean has taught the field to fight back. Also, Dukakis was ahead of Bush Sr. by 17 points in a number of polls before the Conventions and the attacks kicked in, so nominated a New Englander isn't a bad thing, but we need someone who won't let Rove walk all over him.

[Hep]

1. Kerry's definitely not Dukakis

Doesn't mean he's anywhere near the best choice.

But of course, we live in a "lowest bidder" society. So, you know...

[quinnox]

2. Yea, it won't fly

For a lot of reasons. Mainly because Kerry comes across as a strong, seasoned leader type, and also his war hero background trumps the perception of Kerry as Dukakis as well.

Also, Kerry will fight back as you said. He really means it when he says, "Bring it on!" If the repubs want a dirty, bloody fight, I think Kerry is happy to oblige.

The Repubs are gonna try to paint this picture, but I think it will have very limited effect, if any.

[Kolesar]

5. You say "Kerry comes across as a strong, seasoned leader type"

I would say that only recently has his presentation begun to change from that droning Senatorial style to something more assertive. He's moving in the right direction, but I still don't think the Mr. Kerry is the fiery orator that we need. I still see in him a presentation that says "I know better, I am so wise, so listen to me"

Remember, this is no-rules campaigning here against the Bush mafia. The stakes are war and death. The opposition are...well...murderers.

[bigtree]

7. Who do you think would do a better job, and why?

This is not a quote from John Kerry.
"I know better, I am so wise, so listen to me"

Surely he has said much more than this.

[ibegurpard]

9. Who is that a quote from?

eom

[bigtree]

13. Point is

He hasn't presented himself in that way. Pointing out his experience working for decades on most of the major issues in this campaign is the way I want theses folks to campaign: Point to your record. Tell us why you should be president. I want to hear that more than a tearing down of others.

[HuckleB]

3. I wish I could believe that he will fight back.

But I just don't see it happening without the constancy of role models around him like Dean and Clark. He won't have that in the GE, and I think he needs it.

[Duder]

4. Deja Vu

April 25, 1988 -- A Time magazine poll shows Michael Dukakis, the Democratic front-runner, leading Vice President George Bush in a prospective matchup 50-39 percent.

Do You Know? How many states did Dukakis carry in the fall that year? (Answer: Ten)

[bigtree]

6. good point

This is the impression that a lot of folks have about the Dukakis factor. I do remember that he was leading until they took him apart. He didn't defend himself until it was too late. He thought he would win Mr. congeniality but the public loves a brawl. He got caught with his dukes down.

[mot78]

8. Nice guys finish last

especially in elections. My biggest concern about getting another Dukakis would be to nominate Edwards, because he's running as as "nice guy".

[bigtree]

10. In defense of Sen. Edwards (sort of)

He is hitting back. But his attacks are cosseted in a smile. Last night he hit John Kerry by making it appear that Kerry had actually said about the South what Jennings laid on him. Sen. Edwards attacked the notion of ignoring the South even though Sen. Kerry denied that he had said it. Smooth.

[PATRICK]

12. Muskie

Everyone, including the Nixonites who now run W's campaign, thought Muskie was a shoo-in and Kerry is stronger in every department, IMHO, than Muskie. Muskie too had unfortunate run-ins with unforgiving liberal elements and the insurgent campaign from that sector under new rules(now modified back to party leader control!).
W is much worse than Nixon, maybe even sharing the same hardcore negatives, but he has the Congress and the press for cover- at the moment.

Kerry has overcome, thanks to better timing and smarts, some of the same obstacles Muskie faced. Dukakis had a united party but was not clearly a popular people's choice. Kerry will have to earn far more despite his current momentum. The gaming of the election system and the media today however, is unprecedented. That is an issue to be faced by itself whoever is the candidate. In a fair election Kerry would be a shoo in. But then, by now, W would have been impeached and all the Congress reverted back to Democratic hands.

[Adjoran]

11. It will only take a cheap Earl Scheib "paint" job

since Kerry IS a northeastern liberal, isn't he?

Dukakis DID fight back over the Horton ad, but there wasn't much to do. The facts presented in the ad were true (as Gore had brought up in a primary debate) - Massachusetts gave a convicted murderer a furlough during which he raped and murdered again; all Dukakis could do was complain about the implied appeal to racism. The country as a whole at the time was very concerned about rising violent crime, and most African-Americans were already voting Democratic, so it didn't work. Even most people who opposed the death penalty didn't want to see violent offenders on the street.

The tank thing was a self-inflicted wound.

Kerry will be a much stronger candidate than Dukakis, though. Compared to Dukakis, Kerry is much more Presidential in appearance and bearing, and is more used to the national political scene (so less apt to shoot himself in the foot). He will be a lot more competitive and is a better debater by far.

I expect the repubs will concentrate on cutting Kerry's appeal to veterans with clips and quotes from his Vietnam-era protests with Jane Fonda. They will attack his vote against the first Gulf War, saying if Kerry got his way, Saddam would not only still be in power, but still control Kuwait's oil, too. They will attempt to use this to sweep the south. See for reference Max Cleland, another war hero who was savaged by repubs for voting against the Homeland Security bill.

I respect John Kerry a lot and will have no problem supporting him as the nominee. I am worried about the GE strategy, though. We have to win at least two of the states Gore lost unless we can take one big one like Florida.

[bigtree]

15. northeastern liberal

That is a factless swipe, no matter who characterizes him that way. I believe that he spends a good deal of time in Pa. Can I label him with a good old Pa. moniker?

I want to know who will defend Nixon's bloody war in order to attack John's patriotism? I wonder who will stand against the entire Democratic Senate (save Gore) who voted with him on that Gulf War resolution? I wonder who will now attack a parapalegic who lost his limbs in battle in defense of the country?

Bring it on.

[Fleshdancer]

14. Comparing current politicians to those of the past is silly and lazy

Kerry is Kerry and Dean is Dean. They are not Dukakis or McGovern or anyone else. Making comparisons just keeps people from doing the work to find out who these politicians really are.

And the next time anyone here feels the need to bash Dean supporters yet again, just remember how fair this post is compared to the countless "Dean is McGovern" or "Dean is Dukakis" threads of the past.

[bigtree]

17. "Dean has taught the field to fight back"

Alert: pro-Dean statement

[PAMod]

16. Bad news. If you have to refute it, it is already "out there". eom

[bigtree]

18. Let's take all of the republican lies and distortions and let them lie

Or, let's defend against them and make them eat their words.

[PAMod]

19. Defend against being another Dukakis?

Why bother? We'd better spend our time & energy & resources making the case for Kerry if he is the nominee! If we can do that, it will become apparent that Kerry is better suited (hopefully) for the race than Dukakis was.

Also, if the Dukakis thing is out there, it's out there. It would be like putting toothpaste back in the tube.

We'd be better off going issue by issue as to why Kerry would be an improvement over the crew that's in office.