IF Kucinich Dropped Out, Where Would Most of His Supporters Go?

[rucky]

It isn't going to happen, but what the hay - it's just a poll.

And please spare us the "all two of them" cracks.

I'd probably just vote for the frontrunner at the time.

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Kucinich supporters don't seem like the "vote transferable" type

I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to talk them into my camp, but I would if they listened! :-)

[MuseRider]

6. I think we all listen!

If you hadn't noticed there are not usually a lot of DK threads around here. I think most of us read the threads on others to learn.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. Not my impression at all.

Some of the most reasonable posters on the board and some of the most loyal Democrats happen to support Kucinich.

[rucky]

15. True with a few, but you may have a misconception

No candidate standing is more different from Bush than Kucinich & Sharpton. Some of your strongest ABB sentiments come from our camp. I just look at the primary vote differently than others, who have taken more weight into "electablilty", rather than trying to sway the popular perception of it. Don't buy into the "fringe candidate" label: DK's platform takes everybody's interests into consideration.

If DK were to drop out, I'd have a tough time deciding - but there's no doubt I'm voting Democrat, and voting in the primary.

[blm]

21. Kucinich is a very loyal Dem who loves his party.

Those who think he would turn his back on it in any way have not yet understood this about the man.

Dennis would urge his supporters to stay with the Dem party and support its nominee.

I've known him for decades and have no doubt.

[youngred]

54. Why not?

My goal is the removal of Bush, if I can't have DK, then most everyone else is OK by me.

In fact my secondary candidate right now is Clark, followed by Kerry, Edwards then Dean and Lieberman as a last last last resort.

[Gemini Cat]

74. I know of several Kucinich supporters who will go for

Clark, if Kucinich leaves the race.
And, I am one of them.


:dem:

[goodhue]

2. do you mean primary or GE?

I'll vote DK in primary even if he were to drop out which he wont, and then vote for the democratic nominee in GE.

[rucky]

4. Some choices apply to the primary...the non-democrats in the GE

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I'd back the dem on the ticket

My heart would be yearning to vote Green, but it wants Bush out even more.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. At some point Kucinich will drop out

He is a realist and plans a progressive movement long after this election. I am sure he will encourage his supporters to vote for the presumptive nominee no matter whom it may be and will encourage them to comtinue to participate and be active in order to be heard.

That is what a person with a vision does. He doesn't pick up his jacks and leave. He knows the possibility of progressivism lives inside the Democratic party and viable alternatives to the two party system are a ways off..in the meantime...give Democrats hell ...support them but FORCE them to listen.

[IrateCitizen]

12. I agree with you except on one thing, NSMA...

I don't think that Dennis will drop out, for just the reasons you cited above.

I think he'll continue until the convention. But his campaign won't be about tearing down the eventual nominee in any way. It will be about getting that vision out there and spreading the gospel. And in the end, come the convention, he will fall in line behind the nominee and urge his supporters to do the same.

[Terwilliger]

16. and his supporters will say...

"well then what thge fuck were you saying all those things for, Dennis? So that, in the end no one would incorporate anything you campaigned for?"

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. Go click on the Will Pitt postcard

He isn't going to lead them to certain death by saying vote for THIS PRINCIPLE even if you lose and the suffering gets worse.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IrateCitizen]

29. One important thing WILL change

The window will be cracked open, if ever so slightly, for the infiltration of progressive change. And that, in itself, is enough.

Do you think that the burden is on politicians to fix everything for you, Terwilliger? Politicians, by and large, are not leaders. They are followers. It is up to people to form a movement by which to lead them. This isn't about one election. This is about working together to forge a better future.

Will it be easy? Hell no. But that's the way things are. If you'd rather go and sulk in your corner, bemoaning the way things should be, and how all politicians should be as pure in word and deed as you, then that's your perogative. Just don't expect to drag everyone else down into your abyss of pessimism with you.

We have too much hard work ahead of us to afford being pessimistic.

[Terwilliger]

71. tell you what, IC

you be optimistic for the both of us :hi:

[Terwilliger]

76. on second thought, nevermind

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Great point. That's why I miss you when you aren't here!

:hi:

[IrateCitizen]

38. Right back at ya, NSMA!

:hi:

And a big :grouphug: for DK!

[NashVegas]

20. Prediction: DK Won't Drop Out Until HD

Who will be there to attack Dean from the left?

[IrateCitizen]

30. Ummm... everyone except Lieberman

In the words of Molly Ivins, if you want to know how a politician will govern, you do three things:
1. Look at their record
2. Look at their record
3. Look at their record

Dean's record is far from left-wing. In fact, his record shows him to be perhaps the most conservative Democratic candidate in the race, outside of Lieberman.

I'm not discounting his value in bringing a new strategy and organization into the Democratic Party, because it is EXTREMELY valuable. I just think it's dangerous to paint him as something that he has proven not to be.

[NashVegas]

44. Well, Yes, But

No one who takes themselves credibly as a candidate in the GE is going to attack Dean from the left, else they'll appear too liberal for the GE.

That leaves Kucinich & Sharpton as the ones who will do the damage and fall on their swords at the appropriate moment.

[Paulie]

7. No other canidate has EARNED my vote besides Kucinich

Seriously, I'm waiting for it to happen. But it looks doubtful.

Don't make me hold my nose and do ABB, I hate feeling used, abused and ignored. Leave us behind at your own perril.

[brainshrub]

8. Most of the Kucinich people here in Asheville

like Dean a lot. In fact, yesterday the Kucinich & Dean supporters worked togther to rent a bus to take us to SC.

I don't think Kucinich should drop out b/c he contributes much to the tone of the campaign, but I think it will be a short step for his supporters to come over to Dean's side.

[InvisibleTouch]

18. Agree w/brainshrub

That's my feeling as well. Though I describe myself as a major Dean supporter, I love Kucinich as well, and I don't think it's that much of a stretch between them. (And I can vote for DK in Ohio one way or another.... ;) )

[Kanary]

81. Hi MedusaSaur!

Welcome to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

:toast:

I envy you being able to vote for Dennis in Ohio!

He's my hero!

Kanary

[CWebster]

10. Wherever Dennis tells them to go. nt

[TeeYiYi]

39. Very true. ....n/t

TYY

[youngred]

55. Not really

at least for me personally endorsements don't mean very much. I'm capable of looking at the candidates deciding whom I like the most based on what they are saying, what they have done and their chances of promoting the change I want to see within the party. But in the end its ABB

[eridani]

62. He can tell all he wants

--but he isn't any better at herding cats than the next guy. As the ol' microbiologist used to say "Under the most carefully controlled conditions of temperature, pressure and pH, the organism will do what it damned well pleases."

I wouldn't regard his support of another nominee as betrayal, myself. I just don't think he ought to go back on any of his platform stances. And I don't think he will--he'll just say to keep on fighting for them, which will be easier with any Democrat than with Bush.

[LTR]

11. ABB

I think they'll realize that a vote against Bush is better than no vote at all.

Hell, I voted for Dukakis as my first presidential vote. Not proud of that, but I saw it as better than a vote for Bush I.

[sallyseven]

52. Dennis is good for the democrats.

He keeps them on message. And by the way I voted for Dukakis 4 times and proud of every vote I gave him. He is an honest decent man. Honorable to the core. It just proved that people do not really want a President like that. They rather have a person like bush 1. We know what he was.

[onebigbadwulf]

13. Kucinich supporters will go where kucinich goes

to Dean.

[youngred]

56. You really think they will go to Dean?

I don't. Not after the way DK has been treated by some in the Dean camp and Dean himself. There are others in the race who more closely resemble Dennis' positions on the issues than Dean.

[Kanary]

80. Nope, not me.

Had waaay too much static and disrespect from Dean supporters.

Yes, it does leave a permanent bad taste.

Kanary

[IrateCitizen]

14. This Kucinich supporter will back whoever wins the nomination

But my candidate isn't going to drop out of the primary process, so I will continue to support him (and his vision for America) until the convention. He won't drop out because his campaign isn't about just him or an election. It's about much, much more than that: a bona fide progressive MOVEMENT.

After the convention, since Dennis will back the nominee fully, I can still support Dennis and his progressive vision by supporting the Democratic nominee. It's a nice win-win! :D

[MuseRider]

22. Somehow you just

put this into a form that made me feel much better. I certainly have my choices and a couple of candidates that I will reluctantly vote for, the rest less reluctantly. I knew about the progressive movement and loved it but somehow the way you just worded this was very helpful.

I agree with NSMA, I miss you when you are not here. Glad you are here now. Thanks.

[IrateCitizen]

32. Don't look for purity. Just seek out that window of opportunity!

That's the way you have to look at it.

Former CO Governor Richard Lamm described politicians pretty accurately, IMHO. He said that they are not leaders, that by and large they are followers. They will only go wherever the public will lead them.

That's where we come in. It is undeniable that the window will be cracked open a little wider -- even if the difference is extremely slight -- with a Democratic administration as opposed to the current den of thieves. It is for that slightly greater opportunity in advancing a progressive vision that we must unite behind the Democratic candidate, get him into office, and then agitate like hell once he is there! :D

[MuseRider]

42. That one thing

has been keeping me sane, agitate like hell when they are in office. No matter who it is we must keep this up. It was Will Pitt I think who mentioned how we slacked off with Clinton in office. Boy was I ever guilty of that. Never again, the lessons have been learned. If DK can get a movement that continues then we will be so much better off. Just think how it could grow! AND, agitate like hell to get it done.

[eridani]

63. Guilty as charged

Didn't pay too much attention until NAFTA and welfare 'reform.' Never again! The Kucinich Democrats and Friends will be riding any Dem president really hard.

[iowapeacechief]

31. Sums it up for me!

I'd add: Nobody should cynically assert that Dennis will not influence the platform or the nominee or the campaign--or the next Democartic administration--because he already has! And, indeed, he is not about to quit.

[IrateCitizen]

33. Hey, where can I get info on this "Democartic" Party???

If they've been influenced by Dennis, I want to join up with them! :evilgrin:

[iowapeacechief]

51. By the time I saw your "evil" question, it was to late...

...to fix my typo. I tried, but the system said: "You can't edit this message because the editing period has expired."

As for the US political party Dennis has influenced, you've come to the right place. Stick around and help!

[LWolf]

69. Exactly.

I've been trying to say this for months, but you did a better job.

:hi:

[Rainbowreflect]

23. As a Kucinich support, I would write in Dennis Kucinich when voting.

And then I would work like hell for who ever gets the nomination.

[WilliamPitt]

24. Since he's not dropping out anytime soon

the question is moot.

[Terwilliger]

27. could you get him to answer some questions?

He can't seem to articulate to people who already think of him as a fringe leftist exactly how he's going to implement any of these sweeping leftist policies that he puts forward.

UHC, military spending reductions, cancelling NAFTA and the WTO treaties....

How? How? How? Who's going to believe him? WHo's going to follow him? How does he justify engaging in these far-left ideals when he knows that he'll get little more than pats on the head for it? How does he justify to the people who support him that he's in it to win when he knows that the party he supports rejects most (if not all) of his positions?

Maybe Dennis could do dems a favor and drop out now, so we can pick the worst of the bunch now and get unified sooner.

[no name no slogan]

37. Good point, but they're not all that leftist...

the press likes to point his policies as "leftist", but if you look at them, you'd find that most American people agree with what he'd do.

Most Americans (Democrats especially) are very suspicious of NAFTA and the WTO. They can see the effects of these arrangements, and they don't like what they see for the most part.

Most are also fed up with government waste-- remember the $600 toilet seats from the Pentagon? We have programs in the Pentagon that were not even requested by the DoD, but were put there as political favors. Canceling these will save a lot of $$, and reduce the deficit-- which American taxpayors favor.

If we buy into the media hype that these ideas will "never fly", we've already lost the battle. Most Americans are much more sympathetic to the Democratc party platform than the Repbubs.

The problem is that we don't give them candidates who represent it!

[Terwilliger]

77. most Americans woul agree with what he would do???

Yet he's barely getting 1% at the polls????

And people said I wasn't grounded to reality.

[IrateCitizen]

40. You truly do expect change overnight, don't you Terwilliger?

Perhaps Dennis IS making a difference in just getting the other candidates to TALK about the things he's bringing up. Maybe he is actually influencing them to adopt at least some points from his campaign -- like Edwards' switch to talking a lot more economic populism and against war profiteering.

But you wouldn't notice those changes, would you? Nah, you're too busy looking for everything to change all at once, and for all politicians to demonstrate the complete and absolute purity of thought and deed that you exhibit on a daily basis.

Some of us aren't so ruled by our pessimism that we fail to notice subtleties like this. You might do a little bit better if you could stop looking for the dark stain on every silver lining, and instead just do what YOU can to try and bring about positive change -- no matter how inconsequential it might seem at the time.

[MuseRider]

45. I thought

that it was Dean? Didn't he say last night that everyone on stage was using his ideas that he was courageous enough to stand for when no one else would? Sorry, that line sent me over the edge. Yes, DK can be seen in everyone more now than before, perhaps a lot more by the convention.

[youngred]

58. That was very very grating

especially considering Dean himself has been trying to steal Dennis' platform, from his slogan to BBV to the war issue Dean has been playing the strings that Dennis tuned

[mgc1961]

73. I agree.

I think DK has already had an impact. I noticed a decided shift after Iowa toward DKs position. Maybe coincidence but, it gave me cheer just the same and I made another donation for the cause.

This is not an all of nothing proposition. Just like running a marathon, victory is in the race too. Finishing is a bonus.

[eridani]

64. Who? These people, for one

And there are 16 pages of similar testimonials.

http://resources.kucinich.us/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=1&forumId=1

Thanks to policies such as NAFTA, I have watched the economic power of this country fall at a prodigious rate. Most of my family is unemployed or underemployed. I've managed to hang on to a decent position, but for how long I have no idea. Most of my family members were employed in manufacturing of one sort or another. Most of those manufacturers have closed up, cut jobs, been bought by foreign owners, or moved away in one form or another. All of the jobs are going overseas. Everything I see in the stores these days is "made in China/Taiwan/Mexico" and very seldom do I see a lonely "made in the USA" tag. Even our food is becoming this way, as family farms go belly up and the average American farmer is in their 60's. I hope the current politicians never anger the countries that are now making our bullets - how will we fight their constant wars for oil? How long will it be until the only way Americans can eat is by holding a gun to some foreigner's head in desperation? All the small towns are starving for work. I'm not seeing any "economic recovery" here in the Midwest. I personally think that we need a workers' bill of rights in the constitution including requiring that a minimum of 30% of any company's total U.S. product sales must be produced in the U.S. I do not mean partially assembled in the U.S. or final assembly in the U.S., but completely made here. This should be understandable just from the standpoint of national security. What if we go to war with all the washing machine countries? Do we all then wear dirty smelly clothes until we can get a turn at the riverbank with a washboard?

[rucky]

28. Of course he's not...

but it's beneficial to play out the scenario.

BTW - i think the poll reflects some misconceptions about Kucinich & his supporters. green/third party/fringe spoilers. Something for a press secretary to clear up perhaps?

[VelmaD]

34. I feel much better about supporting Dennis...

now that you're on board. I know you and I believe you when you say he's in this til the end. One of my biggest fears was that he would drop out of the race before the Texas primary even gets here and support for him would have been "wasted".

I'll admit it...I'm scared to get my heart broken again by this process. So I've been hedging my bets on getting out there and really getting behind anyone during the primaries. It's good to know the person I want in my heart to vote for plans on sticking around for a while. :)

All that said, to answer the original question posed by the poster...ABB BAYBEE!

[genius]

25. The Kucinich people would never vote for Dean. Kerry and Edwards

would claim their vote if they switched and they won't. Kucinich people are very clear in their dislike for Dean. However, they are loyal and will vote for Kucinich no matter what.

[AntiCoup2K4]

36. Why would you assume the DK supporters would back the DLC chosen ones?

The DLC hasn't done Dennis any favors. Why would he do them any?

[genius]

46. Dean's more DLC than the rest. Of all the Kucinich supporters I know,

and I am one of them, I don't know of any who will support Dean. Kerry and Edwards are pretty much the unanimous second favorities of the Kucinich people. However, neither of these would get our vote in the primary because we are voting for Dennis - no matter what.

[youngred]

59. I agree n/t

[ThirdWheelLegend]

60. Same here, I know no Kucinich supporters who choose Dean 2nd

He is a right leaning centrist in policy. People seem to project their desires on Dean, but Dean does NOT reflect those desires.

TWL

[eridani]

65. Not sure I agree

A lot of us like the campaign that Dean has run up until now, particularly his insistence that it is not just about voting for him, but ongoing participation in public political life. We see the people who have been stirred up by this and figure that a lot of that support will eventually come over to the one who has a solid pro-little guy program.

[MuseRider]

47. This DK supporter

agrees with you. I have a deal with my husband. If Dean is the nominee he will have to drag me and push me into the booth, he promises he will because I would have a very hard time voting for him. I can vote for all the others, Kerry is my second choice.

[John_H]

35. Did you intentionally leave out: "Vote for the nominee"?

My sense here and elsewhere is that most Kucinich supporters are solid Dems.

[rucky]

41. Nobody would've picked specific candidates

the poll would have just been another ABB affirmation

[IrateCitizen]

43. Then maybe that reflects the true will of DK supporters...

... in which case, it would be an accurate representation. :shrug:

[rucky]

48. Except not only DK supporters are voting

The poll is more about perceptions than reality.

I was considering conducting another one for DK supporters only. I bet the numbers would be quite different.

[corporatewhore]

57. you should do one and have us each check in

[DjTj]

49. Canada.

:-p

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stickdog]

53. To Edwards and Kerry, of course.

That is, if they listen to Dennis.

[JPJones]

61. Narnia n/t

[mlawson]

66. I think the question is moot.

A few more days and this thing is over with; we will have our nominee.

Note I am not using the 'bounce' smilie...

[eridani]

68. Not at all

It doesn't matter in the slightest whom the media annoints, Dennis is in there until Boston, period.

[hippywife]

67. Well, as it stands at the moment

I get to vote for Dennis this coming Tuesday. No one else is getting my primary vote. If he is not the nominee, it will be ABB but I would hope it would be Kerry. Anyone else and I'm gonna have a problem with it.

[LWolf]

70. It isn't going to happen.

I know I'll be voting for Dennis when the race gets to CA.

So all of the agonizing over 2nd choices is moot.

[hedgetrimmer]

72. i will sell mine to the highest bidder... maybe on ebay...

i do not believe Kucinich is ever going to tank the campaign... he is going to the ride the whole enchilada right on down to the convention... because he knows the only person worth voting for is him and... to take votes from the mainstream and media selected whore candidates...

killing 'em with light... take 'em down KOOCH!... take 'em down! blind them with my america, bleach out their corporate campaign checks... make 'em hurt with their double talk and neo-dem central idealogy... take it back, all the way back ...

who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!
who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!
who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!
who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!
who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!
who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!
who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!
who let the KOOCH out? KOOCH! KOOCH!

[sweetheart]

75. ABB, i'm still on board for regime change

Whatever it takes.

If kucinich drops out, then i don't give a fuck. I'll vote for whomever... just i hope they fix the drugs war... but i ain't expecting much.

[dweller]

78. Canada

but that wasn't a choice was it?

and i'm not damned happy about dusting my heels on this beautiful country, but giving it one last chance to get it right...
but after that, i'll pull the ABB lever on the way out.

peace,
dp

[kodi]

79. kucinich asked his iowa caucus people to go edwards if not him

that appears to be (at least 2 weeks ago it was) his tactic if not his strategy to get his issues pushed best if he fails.

[iowapeacechief]

82. Actually, it was a mutually advantageous, one-day-only...

...strategy suggestion to caucus participants who were too few to get counted for their own candidate--then and only then were they to consider teaming with the other's supporters. Whichever candidate brought more people to the resulting "viable" alliance got his name put on the group, but county convention delegates were divided acording to local deals.

I'm frustrated to see how widely misunderstood and misreported this was.

[George_Bonanza]

83. Polls like this are skewered (that's a LOT of Kucinich supporters)

I seriously doubt that there are up to a hundred closet Kucinich supporters at DU. Yet if you add up all the votes, you get to around that number. If there are, where the hell have been?

[youngred]

85. They have always been here

Kucinich has always polled in the top three at DU...but I think you're right, I think it is skewed (no way that many go to Dean)

[0rganism]

84. There's another factor to consider: A KUCINICH ENDORSEMENT

I think several of the candidates merit such a thing, and if/when Kooch drops out, I bet he does his best to move his supporters along to vote against shrub. I don't think he'll leave supporters hanging after the convention.

[Freddie Stubbs]

86. Kucinich won't drop out until after someone has the nomination wraped up

So this question will be moot.