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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:34 PM
Original message
Clark supporters, Dean supporters, Kerry supporters,
can we please stop trying to support our candidates by tearing the others down? I refer both to the general practice of starting threads to slam a candidate with some smear or other (especially tired memes like the IWR vote, Clark's born-again Democrat status, and all the angy-man stuff about Dean), and the specific practice of defending a candidate from a smear by smearing another candidate ("Kerry's a corporate guy? Well, how about Dean's corporate connections?").

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's primary season, attacks are to be expected, candidates are going to have to be ready to take on the Rove machine, etc. etc. yadda yadda blah blah blah. But you can support your candidate without attacking and smearing the others. And we are sufficiently grown up around here to know the difference between a legitimate concern and an attack or smear. Quick clue: if your question is legitimate and not a smear, there ought to be such a thing as an answer that will satisfy you. Also, if your concern is legitimate, it should not be necessary to bring it up more than once per week.

Can we not see the harm it does to take the meat-axe to our own candidates? One of them is going to be the nominee and will require all our support in the general election. This is going to be one hell of a battle, with the media, the Rove propaganda machine, the money, and the various opportunities for election manipulation and fraud arrayed against us. We are going to need everyone on board, not just "holding their nose" but actively supporting the nominee, giving money, ringing doorbells, getting out the vote.

Are you annoyed with those who squall about "my candidate or nobody, my candidate or I'm voting Green"? Every time we start a thread smearing a candidate, we create more of those people! What propogates that attitude more than anything else is anger at the way their favored candidate is being treated, here on DU as well as elsewhere. Didn't anybody notice how NBD was basically born after all the snarky threads about Dean's Iowa speech?

And I'm willing to believe that the attackers and smearers make up a minority on DU and in GD2004. But why are threads like that greeted with enthusiastic support and angry "Yeah, well what about your guy?" posts? Why is there so little posting to the effect that we need to cut the attacks and stay positive? Does it have anything to do with Burke's commonplace about evil triumphing because good people do nothing?

We need to keep our eyes on the prize - getting Bush-the-unelected out of the White House. That means we need to be looking ahead to rallying around our standard-bearer, whoever it turns out to be (and I am not advocating that we all rally around this or that candidate now, it's too early for that). The way to prepare our nominee to pick up the banner and march into battle is not to strip the skin off him and kick him in the crotch a couple hundred times.
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. I urge Edwards' supporters to join in, too!
:hi:
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Thanks. The reason I didn't mention Edwards supporters
is that I don't see them doing a lot of attacking and counterattacking anyway. This could be because I don't look at enough strings.
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:37 PM
Original message
Who Do You Support?
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't see where Clark supporters are supporting Clark by
tearing other candiates down?
Please don't post threads that accuse groups of supporters of attacks with a broad brush.

I think there is a rule about that somewhere.

Clark supporters have been very postive of all candiates lately.
Yeah I picked @ Kerry a little bit cuz of his Botox but I also said he looked good and Presidential. I really feel that he looked great, and I like his new haircut.

but I don't see what you are talking about.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I do
Gee, you put Botox crap right in your own post. :eyes:
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Yes, but he looks great, what's the problem with it.
Can't I say he looks great? Aren't we being a little overly sensitve about this.

He looks presidential. It is more than obvious that he used it. But do what you gotta do to win the nom and the GE. It isn't a bad thing. What's the deal? I don't get it.

HE LOOKS GOOD, is there a problem that I'm saying he looks good?

I suggested that Clark get some tanning on the Clark Blog and here also. He was lookin pasty and I thought it helped.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Said you picked on him
That's what you said. There's only one reason to bring it up in your post again. Get real. I'd never say Clark was looking pasty. It's shallow and rude.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yeah a little bit, I also pick on my little brother and my friends @ work
it's not an attack, nor is it incivility.

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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. HERE is what I said
Edited on Fri Jan-30-04 01:13 PM by xultar
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=215562#215653

I told the previous poster they should change their post and that I thought Kerry looked good and Presidential.

In a second post I said that they used a litte bit too much Botox on his left eye.

Yes, I picked on him a little bit. But I was joking in the second post and in the first I was positve and defending him.

And I also did a Buhwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! n/t post because I thought I was seeing things on Tuesday night. I'm glad others noticed that he had a makeover and looked good too.

Please make sure you know the full story before issuing an execution notice on me.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. A while ago
When it was CLark vs Dean it was all about the anti-dean movement. It was kinda maddening being a Dean supporter. Thats has pretty much died down now.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm only attacking the media
for ignoring THE GENERAL. I have nothing against the other boys.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree
I don't participate in tearing other candidates down in a gratutitous way. All this crap about Kerry, all the crap about Dean, and Clark... it's all wasted time and energy. Lets win!
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Thank you. /nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. "tired memes like the IWR vote.." Some need to be reminded.
Sorry, but some of us think the war in Iraq is unjustifiable and that those who voted for it shouldn't be president.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. "Some need to be reminded."
How many times per day? How many times per hour? Do you really believe that there is anyone on DU who hasn't heard about the IWR vote at least a thousand times? Which means either they've changed their minds because of it or they haven't and won't. And nagging and badgering is only going to make people angry.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. I would like it
if the supporters of candidates would stop smearing each other because we have a few assholes on the board causing this mess.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Good. Fine.
But did you read the paragraph where I pointed out that these smear/attack threads seem to contain very few admonitions from anybody to stay positive and stop attacking? I'll subscribe to your "few assholes" theory, but then what are the rest of us doing about it? All too often, we are responding "Yeah? Well, what about your guy?" And that's only throwing gasoline on the fire.
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. Health Proposals of Kerry and Clark
I like both John Kerry and Wesley Clark and would like to see them team up as Pres. and VP (or visa versa).

Here's the plans of John Kerry and Wesley Clark to make health insurance available to more persons:

http://clark04.com/issues/healthcare_long.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/kerry_health_plan.pdf
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kick.
:kick:
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Desperation Kick.
Is that it? Nineteen posts, including four that were mine and six that were opposed. Is that all the enthusiasm we can muster for civility and positive campaigning around here?
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm with you, definite ABB here.
I do not care for the tearing down of any of the candidates. I believe we have a fine pool of candidates.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. I Do Not Feel Compelled
To go out of my way to point out a candidate's flaws.

However, I do not feel compelled to refrain from doing so, either.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. Ooooo Let me kick! n/t
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Thanks.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Ur welcome n/t
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
23. I promise not to say anything about Clark or Edwards unless they slam Dean
And that's all I'll promise. :)
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Er . . . you're missing a name there . . .
Otherwise, fair enough.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. And that name will remain "missing"
My conscience won't allow me be silent at the attempt to replace one PNAC pResident with another.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Well.
Thanks for being so constructive and open-minded.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Cant you just call everyone
ABB here despite being a stubborn idealist.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Like I said to the Edwards guy above,
I only mentioned Clark, Dean, and Kerry supporters because I don't see Kucinich supporters or any of the other candidates' supporters going negative, although maybe that's just because I haven't looked hard enough. And I was careful to put Clark, Dean, and Kerry in alphabetical order in case someone wanted to raise the issue of whose supporters were the worst offenders.
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'd proudly vote for Kerry, Dean, Clark, or Edwards
Haven't trashed any of them - nor will I. I am a captal D Democrat who would give his left arm to see Bush removed.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Thank you.
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