Edwards totally lost me last night

[redqueen]

First of all he glommed on to Kerry's answer about Iraq, but that's been done already.

That was bad enough, IMO. However, he then added insult to injury with this:

BROKAW: Senator Edwards, is it realistic to talk to the American people about stopping the global economy and the movement toward it, of manufacturing overseas a lot of these piece goods and other products that were manufactured here for many years, and it's not going to come back?

EDWARDS: No, it's not the truth. We can have a real impact on the loss of jobs. We can do something to bring jobs back to replace the jobs that we've lost.

But we can't stop it entirely. What John just said about that's exactly right.

But I want to say that this personal to me.

You know, 40 miles from here, when I was born 50 years ago, my parents brought me home to a mill village, to a textile mill village. I have seen this my entire life growing up.

I've seen mills close, I've seen what it does to communities, I've seen what it does to families.

And all this talk among politicians in Washington about, "We're going to get you job retraining program, we're going to make sure that we give you the transportation to get to a new job," say that to a 50- or 55-year-old man who's been supporting his family his entire life working in a mill.

I think the truth of the matter is, we need to start by recognizing the pain. And not just the economic pain -- the pain that these families are in.

I mean, we have to fight hard to protect our jobs better for some of the reasons others have already talked about. We need to close loopholes in our tax code to give breaks to companies that are leaving, give tax breaks to American companies that will keep jobs here.
--------

A bunch of rhetoric and hot air aimed at a real, serious problem. Not only that, but he's basically calling Kucinich a liar or a fool.

This is why the Democratic party will probably decline into obsolescence after this election.

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Was Edwards That Bad?

I've always thought Edwards was pretty solid in debates. I didn't see last night's.

[TexasPatriot]

3. he had a couple flat answers

i'm used to seeing him sharp as a tack - he wasnt last night - esp when he started defending the iraq war as helping to get rid of a terrible dictator. the guy sounded more like lieberman than lieberman.

[redqueen]

4. If you mean performance wise

Sure he was solid. He's always solid when speaking. He's a damn lawyer -- it's their job.

But last night he was spoonfed a 'NAFTA's really great, though, right? come on!' type of leading question by brokaw, and he toed the pro-corporate DLC-bootlicker line like the pro he is.

Ugh.

[no name no slogan]

12. It sounded like he's talking to a hometown crowd

IMHO, I think he wanted to look macho for the folk close to home. I liked his idea about 50-year-old and about retraining them (i.e., easier said than done), but he certainly missed the mark when he said that "that's just the way it is" with jobs fleeing overseas.

Sure, the mills are probably a crappy place to work-- most factories are, and if you've ever worked in one, you know what I'm talking about. However, as shitty as the jobs are, at least they are JOBS that provide paychecks for working.

Most people would rather have A job than NO job.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. Sounds like he's kissing up to Kerry for #2.

Both should never be elected to anything as Democrats.

[rucky]

5. How'd you get from A to B?

i don't follow your conclusion - about calling DK a liar

I didn't watch the debates, tho.

[redqueen]

9. Here it is

BROKAW: Senator Edwards, is it realistic to talk to the American people about stopping the global economy and the movement toward it, of manufacturing overseas a lot of these piece goods and other products that were manufactured here for many years, and it's not going to come back?

EDWARDS: No, it's not the truth. We can have a real impact on the loss of jobs. We can do something to bring jobs back to replace the jobs that we've lost.


This is obviously aimed at anyone who thinks we can do crap about NAFTA or the WTO.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, folks, but we've been struggling under the yoke of those investor protection scams for a decade now. These agreements have been tweaked and tweaked (always in favor of indsustry, though, of course). The simple fact is that they are controlled overwhelmingly by pro-corporate interests, and they will NOT be changed to implement worker protections.

I can see them throwing us a crumb or two in the form of environmental protection, but I really doubt that we'll see anything for workers. They've had 10 years to 'fix it' or 'mend it' or whatever the hell promise you hear -- it hasn't been done and it won't be. These politicians are just telling us what we want to hear so they can bg.

[rucky]

30. gotcha

yep. a steaming heap of crap.

we have a huge uphill battle to fight. "compassionate globalism" is not going to cut it.

[pmbryant]

6. How is that merely 'rhetoric and hot air'?

I mean, we have to fight hard to protect our jobs better for some of the reasons others have already talked about. We need to close loopholes in our tax code to give breaks to companies that are leaving, give tax breaks to American companies that will keep jobs here.

That sounds like a pretty concrete proposal to me.

--Peter

[redqueen]

10. Not to me -- just more empty promises.

Tweaking tax code isn't going to stop the massive hemhorraging of jobs out of this country. He knows it, they all do.

The rhetoric and hot air was his 'blah blah blah' about mills closing.

[HFishbine]

11. Incoherent

We need to close loopholes to give taxbreaks to companies that are leaving? That's what he said.

What he should have said, and hopefully meant, was "We need to close loopholes in our tax code to STOP GIVING breaks to companies that are leaving."

[redqueen]

15. The really bad thing

is that Kerry had just finished saying that. Clearly.

[jmoss]

25. YES...Thank you!!

I agree. They ALL had about 30-60 sec. to answer very DEEp questions. Many (Lieberman, Sharpton, Clark--especially). Just side-stepped the question completely and dove into their pre-planned, canned rhetoric. It was quite irrelevant, actually.

Senator Edwards stayed within the context of Brokaw's premise. Yes he threw in some "home town stuff", but so what?!

I would expect the same local pleas of Kerry in Mass., Clark in Arkansas, etc. For goodness sake, Gephardt based his whole campaign on winning Iowa, and just hanging on for Missouri. You have to start somewhere!!

[goodhue]

7. yeah I was disappointed in him too last night

Last labor day when I saw him in Des Moines I thought wow what a slick shyster but then as campaign progressed I saw how positive and hopeful he was and I really began to like him particularly when he talks about poverty and two americas. But last night I saw very little to reinforce my recent positive opinion.

[cheezus]

8. Agreed - I'm back to undecided

His Two Americas speech won me over, but I was entirely underwhelmed by his performance in the debate. I don't know if it's just panding to the south or what, but he didn't seem to be the same populist I saw on CSPAN a week ago

I thought the standout performace came from Al Sharpton.

[jmoss]

26. Support Edwards!!!!

I'm from NYC,originally, and admire Rev. Sharpton, immensely. I found him to be one of the strongest presences last night as well. But he was not interested in sticking strictly to the questions. He is a wonderful speaker who is using the debates as a medium to give impetus to important issues. Their is a place form him in our government, but it's much better suited as an ambassador, maybe even President Edwards' Secretary of State :-)

But please don't lose sight of John Edwards as a strong, eloquent, public figure, who has Strong experience in Judicial, legislative, and foreign intelligence processes. He has a broad appeal, similar to the charisma that President Kennedy exuded. Please pledge your vote to the man who CAN & WILL defeat George W. Bush---JOHN EDWARDS!!!!!

[elixir]

13. I think he changed his tact because he's down south and wants to appeal to

the boys. His stances on several issues either morphed or were side stepped to avoid insulting the southern vote.

I was very surprised by his "mill worker" story again. Sorry, John being born 40 miles from the debate is not going to matter to the 15% unemployed in SC. They want to hear a plan on creating jobs. Your slick looks and big bucks don't mean anything to SC.

[DjTj]

14. Watch C-Span at 5:30pm

...for a REAL question-and-answer session with South Carolina families.

The debate format last night was bland and useless... Watch how the candidates (including Edwards) answer REAL questions.

[redqueen]

16. Agreed - these 'debates' are for s$&#

Looking forward to watching the replay later. Thanks. :)

[cheezus]

20. I'd rethink those pics in your sig

The comparison is cute, but NOBODY wants to Ashton Kucher to be president.

[John_H]

17. Edwards supported the war and he's not backing off. He can't.

That would be political suicide.

[redqueen]

19. That and the 'hometown crowd' fator were why

I didn't even bother to carp on that. It still bothers me, because it presents a falsehood to the American people IMO.

My real gripe was with his blase attitude toward losing jobs so fast that I really wonder why we're not hearing about another recession yet. I suppose that would muddy their claims about high GDP growth and all that jazz. :eyes:

[xultar]

18. Edwards was not having his best game last night.

He looked great, quite handsome in fact.

He seemed to be preoccupied and very distracted. He knows things aren't going well and I assume his money situation isn't that great also.

Edwards rambled and seemed to be talking in circles.

[jmoss]

21. They only had time for Rhetoric

I respect Congressman Kucinich, implicitly. The ideas on Education reform he laid out LAST week were DEAD ON!!. But from a non-politician,public school teacher from the South, I can PROMISE you that John Edwards would have a much broader appeal, than any of the other 6, down here during a general election

Please don't let the 30 sec. answer-forum cause anyone to forget that ...the person with great appeal in the South, a strong
background of 20 successful years in the legal profession, 5
years experience inside the Senate, where he sits on the
Foreign intelligence, and domestic labor/education
committees, & someone with VERY strong family values.....
is JOHN EDWARDS!


John Edwards is charismatic. HE's the one the Bush
administration fears most for November (if you trust
occasional commentaries and unnamed leaks to the Washington Press). I know his campaign rhetoric is repetitive from speech to speech, but it's useful, and holds substance. I was disappointed that he didn't get more questions to answer last night in Greenville, SC, but please take notice of how firm
& confident Mr. Edwards responses are when he does get
asked questions. He is a VERy strong, dynamic, personable,
& eloquent speaker.

I hope some who read this will consider supporting John
Edwards as Primaries Come to your State.

[redqueen]

22. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

Yeah I was just saying. The people will have their say and their will (and the will of the superdelegates) will be done. :)

I'm still going to stay mad at him though, because this issue is the real elephant in the room and it's going to kill this country but quick if we don't get our stuff straight fast.

[Warren Stuart]

23. I respectfully disagree

A lot of jobs have left and are not coming back, this is reality. Waving a magic wand is not going to change things. It dosn't make sense to keep making horse buggies when the world has moved onto automobiles.

I think Edwards gave an excellent response to the question.

[redqueen]

24. Nobody is talking about waving wands

The agreements that are in place and have been in place for a decade now were negotiated with the input of hundreds of manufacturing industry representatives, and seven labor reps. The fact that they are killing labor worldwide is no accident.

This isn't about horse buggies vs. automobiles.

We are shipping the latest technology in jet planes to India. The latest jumbo is being worked on there, not here.

What are we going to work on? Spaceships?

[Warren Stuart]

27. In the context of the discussion

Edwards was talking about mill factory jobs, which is where I got my horse buggy analogy from.

He mentioned how it is unrealistic to expect a 55 year old millworker to retrain himself into a more profitable job. This is the magic wand part, there are no easy answers.

You are right that it is disgusting that good, high tech jobs are being outsourced out of the country. We are losing our tech advantage.

[redqueen]

28. Gotcha n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

29. Boy, this is getting ridiculous

Edwards didn't have the greatest night last night, but he's been very unfairly treated. First there's a poll here that puts words in his mouth and pronounces him as an extreme war cheerleader, and now there are others of similar stripes.

You'll note that Edwards and Kucinich were talking together very warmly immediately after the debate. Kucinich can see the big picture.

This was a very substantive answer: he complimented Kerry when he felt he was correct, and had a SPECIFIC MECHANISM to do something about the problem. How is that empty rhetoric? He also admitted that the past couldn't be reclaimed and the the times are changing.

Yeah, he got emotional and pulled at the heartstrings. All of them do that to some degree, and it's legitimate: this his how many people orient themselves to life.

He's being called a lightweight, when he poses very specific remedies to problems. The very essence of the complaints against him are simply incorrect.

It was an interesting dynamic for me, an admitted Edwards partisan of long standing, to read the board after the debate but before I saw it. When I finally saw it, it bore NO resemblance to what I'd been reading here. The one response that drew the most fire--and the spurious and inflammatory poll--was a bit jumbled, but it was a justification of concern over terrorism, not a justification of the war. Even in an off night, he was still very good.