Is Edwards a phony? How about Clark, Kerry, JoeL?

[uconnyc]

I've seen many people post that they feel that JRE is a phony. Do you truly feel he is a "PHONY" or do you just disagree with him on some issues like the Iraq War, voting for the Patriot Act, etc.

Do you think that if he were not running for Prez. he would have voted/acted differently on these and other issues?

Personally, I genuinly feel that JRE votes it like he sees it. On the $87 Billion he stated that "even if I was the deciding vote I would have voted against it." On partial birth abortion, even though he missed the vote he has openly said he would only support such a bill IF it had exemptions for special cases. On the Patriot Act he freely admits that it was a mistake because he didn't realize how much Ashcroft would abuse that bill, though he stands by all the good elements that were in the legislation.

I feel the real phonies in this race are:

1) Lieberman (pretends he is a Democrat) I'd go third party.

2) Kerry (Did not support the 1st Gulf war, but supported this one; Botox; all his scripted one-liners) I'd vote for him, but no campaigning or contributions.

3) Clark (I have no problems with Clark as we all change some of our views over time, but I don't feel he truly feels he is a Democrat and his positions on many issues are simply out of convenience.) I'd still enthusiastically support him though, not sure why but something attracts me to him.

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. I have been warned by the moderators many times, but i must say

but i think Edwards knows how to pander "S. Carolinians are blunt"

and he never takes a position that isn't backed by polls
he likes gays, but he is for states' rights discrimination of gay people

[disenfranchised]

3. How is he for discrimination of gay people?

He supports rights for civil unions and adoption.

[newyawker99]

6. Hi disenfranchised!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[GreenArrow]

2. I think there is a certain level of phoniness

involved with politicians in general, but I tend to think that Edwards is the most egregiously phony of the current crop of Dem candidates. I think everything he does is calculated with an end in mind and both eyes on public opinion. Whatever will get him the most votes is what he predicates his position on. I can't put my finger on just what it is that bugs me about him, but there is something in his demeanor (not to mention his positions, most of which I find disagreeable) that creates a visceral repsonse of mistrust.

Clark, Lieberman, and Kerry are phonies in different ways, but I don't get the sort of gut clenching distaste that I do with Edwards. Strangely enough, I think Lieberman is probably the least phoney of the lot, and though I disagree with him on many issues, I'd vote for him ahead of Edwards.

[MariaS]

4. Today on CSpan..Family Forum with the Candidates. My take

I watched a family forum that many here may or may not have also watched. I was unable to see the appearances of Kerry or Sharpton because Cspan cut away for some Congressional stuff but I did get to see Clark, Edwards, Dean, & Kucinich (Libermann passed on the invite to participate) and these are my initial reactions to the candidates. First let me say that I tried very hard to stay impartial because I thought this was a wonderful forum and wanted to see how each candidate presented himself to the people and how they also presented their answers. All candidates were asked the same opening question which dealt with poverty in America.

First up Clark. He expressed his concern at the situation of poverty in American and immediately went on tell his solution. Then he was presented with a question from the audience by the grandmother of a young man who was bipolar and depended on Medicaid for help and medications. Before she could complete her story she broke down, and I along with her, when she told of his death in January. General Clark was off his chair and to the woman before the camera could even pick it up. His first instinct was to come to her side to offer compassion. For me it was very moving and telling about the type of man he is. Afterward the General answer additional questions on a few other issues and in each instance he offer solutions.

I get so tired of Politicians telling us the things that are wrong. We are not blind, we already know what's wrong just tell us how you will fix them. And that's what Clark did in clear and simple terms that the audience could understand. At least that was my take on it.

Next up Edwards. When asked the questions he spent most of his answers describing what was wrong and a very small amount of time pointing out his solutions. He did not utilize the time he had to offer up any understandable fixes for the problems he continued to outline. I personally thought that it was extremely obvious that he was a seasoned lawyer and I got from his presentation a sense that he was not offering answers but trying to convince the audience that he knew what was wrong with America.

Next was Dean. I like Howard. I think he is a good man but he continues time and time again to lose me when he speaks because he tends to stumble on his words. They don't seem to flow as easily for him as for some of the other candidates. I think I know why because I believe I have the same problem when speaking to large groups. The reason as I see it is because he just has so much to say and says it so fast that it all gets jumbled up together and that in itself makes the message not as distinct as it could be. He was a bit evasive on some his answers but all in all he did well.

And last but not least Kucinich. As always Dennis is the most passionate and the candidate most able to relate to the average person. His answers were very good. I can find nothing wrong with Kucinich except that he tends not to look at the questioner but at the camera and that to me makes for less personable answers. Anyway that was my take on the forum. And I swear I was trying to be objective. Anyone have other takes on it?

[bloom]

5. I saw about that much

I missed the very beginning - so I missed the scene with Clark that you described.

I don't know. I have a hard time seeing Clark as a really authentic person. I thought Edwards had more empathy what with it being South Carolina. You might be right about not so convincing of solutions, though.

I like Howard's speaking style. It doesn't bother me. I thought he did a pretty good job of explaining how solutions he worked on in Vermont would help the country.

I pretty much agree with you about Kucinich.

_

It kind of reminded me of a "Miss USA" contest - but I liked there being real people with problems that needed answers.

_

It will be shown again at 5 or 5:30 and again this evening, I think.