This is What Happened in New Hampshire

[slinkerwink]

Just another example of your typical Kerry "dirty tricks" campaign. My friend, Claudia, who worked in NH as a Wintern, saw Kerry supporters put those posters up. That is why I cannot support Kerry at all.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. So what? IT's called campaigning

What's so dirty about putting up a poster?

[slinkerwink]

2. it's the worst form of campaigning, and kerry couldn't even do it

on his own merits so he had to resort to dirty tricks like he did in Iowa and New Hampshire.

[Sam Lowry]

7. That's not a dirty trick

It addressed a concern that was apparently felt by enough potential Dean voters to cause your dogg to lose.

[bearfartinthewoods]

21. a lot of people seem to be new to politics or at least it seems so

if that poster is considered the worst form of campaigning.

[blm]

52. Attacking a man during his cancer surgery is the worst form of campaigning

And yet so many here applauded. Go figure.

[ibegurpard]

61. so is trying to portray someone as a liar about the MIA status of

his dead brother.

[displacedtexan]

78. What's the yellow sign cropped out of your picture?

Another candidate's sign? Of course, it is.
Nice try.

[maddezmom]

83. who had the yellow and blue signs?

seriously, I have no idea. :)

[Tesha]

84. The Yellow and Blue signs are also Howard Dean's.

For the last two weeks, we did a "reversal" of the typical white
and yellow on blue Dean signs.

Tesha

[FreeperSlayer]

3. Dirty?!?

Geez, wait until you see the repug tactics.

[pnziii]

9. So its ok for Kerry?

Well the Republicans play dirty so it's ok for Kerry.

Wow that makes me want Kerry even more (not)

[lancdem]

14. That's hardly a dirty trick

Talk about grasping at straws.

[FreeperSlayer]

19. But it's not dirty

hardly

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. This is what happened in New Hampshire

New Hampshire Presidential Primary Election Official final tally

[displacedtexan]

5. That's a dirty trick?

LOL! You must not have been around in '68 or '72.
And, red reflects headlights better than blue. Is that a dirty trick, too?

[ProfessorPlum]

6. Dean has to be able to survive _that_

if he hopes to go up against Bushco and their mighty Wurlitzer. If Kerry does knock him out, then it certainly does show that he wouldn't beat Bush in Nov. 'Cause Bushco will not be more gentle than Kerry is, for God's sake!

On the other hand, Kerry needs to get toughened up a little bit, too.

[lancdem]

25. I agree with you on both counts

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

11. also, let's not forget the pushpolls and robocalls from the kerry campaign

in new hampshire and iowa.

[WilliamPitt]

12. ...cannot...resist...poster...must...vote...Kerry...unnngggghhh...

or something.

[Dookus]

27. LOL...

Kerry-induced Poster Zombies!! RUN!!!!

[FubarFly]

43. The poster was just an example.

Kerry won by playing on people's fears. He drove a wedge in the party by doing so. I will not be voting for Kerry. There is a chance I will still be voting *against* b*sh, but not if it means delivering my Party to a crew of petty, corrupt, corporatists who will complete its transformation into a subsidiary of the Republican Party.

[formernaderite]

64. I feel it too...

...I'm struggling badly with the Dean losses. It's very surreal, and I don't know that I can support Kerry later on. Obviously by my screen name, you're probably thinking this guys a sell out anyway. Dean absolutely motivated me to rethink democratic politics.
This two party system is putting the fear of God in this atheists heart. It's true, if Nader runs again, and picks up on Dean's postitive message of "Hope not fear", I will pull the lever for a third party of hope once again.

[hippiegranny]

69. the third party of hope vote

is a vote for bush. please, you know that. with the entire planet at stake, the time to vote your conscience is in the primaries, but definitely not the general election.

[sistersofmercy]

41. ROFL!

[FubarFly]

44. Laugh now.

If Kerry wins the nomination, he has a serious problem on his hands. The fractures that are developing in the Democratic Party are reaching critical mass. I see it every day. Kerry is not doing enough to bring in new voters, and he is very rapidly losing enough of the base that will ensure his defeat. Do you think I'm joking?

[sistersofmercy]

54. ...

:eyes:

[FubarFly]

56. Have it your way.

Reality will still be as harsh whether you see it coming or not. Kind of like a Mack Truck.

[sistersofmercy]

63. ...

:eyes:

[Catholic Sensation]

68. and let me guess

the fact that supporters of Dean have handled losing the way they have will bring people who didn't support Dean to the Democratic party if he got the nomination?

I'm planning on voting for the democratic nominee no matter who it is, but not everyone sees that removing Bush from office is what this is about not about who does it.

[last1standing]

55. There are some here that I thought better of.

Than to make light of another poster's valid concerns. Live and learn, I guess.

[WilliamPitt]

58. Valid concerns

about a sign?

[Colin Ex]

10. This is what's happened in every modern campaign

Not gonna lie to you -- I don't see anything sketchy about that whatsoever.

Dirty tricks are breaking into your opponent's headquarters and copying a slew of important memos, then running out with them. Lawn signs are a mild inconvenience.

-C

[FubarFly]

45. Yes it is. And people still wonder why the Dems are losing?

Because we eat our own.

[Kolesar]

13. The lameness of Kerry's appeal

Voters have talked themselves into voting for the candidate who they think other voters will vote for in a contest with Bush. How is one in NH to know how a swing voter in Arizona or Florida is going to vote? By watching campaign commercials? The logic gets so clouded that people are not even voting for the person they think would make a good president.

[slinkerwink]

16. exactly---it's all about momentum, instead of really examining

the candidate in detail. Kerry was losing in NH before because people didn't like his lack of appeal and his issues. The iowa momentum helped him get a foothold in new hampshire, and when it looked like Dean was going up further in the NH polls as the soft support eroded away from Kerry, then came the robocalls.

[fujiyama]

39. If those that voted for Kerry...

did so because they think he can beat Bush, then that shows much of Dean's support wasn't as strong as it was thought to have been.

I agree that if the allegations of push polling are true, then I'd be extremely dissapointed in Kerry. However, I haven't seen any evidence that it was Kerry's campaign that was behind them. Remember, Gephardt and Dean were also attacking each other constantly. There is no love lost between those two.

As for those lawn signs, those are nothing. They're simply questioning voters if Dean is the best candidate.

Edit:

I just noticed the claim that the RoboCalls were in NH. Either way, I noted above that pushpolling in a primary is plain wrong. On the other hand I have no problem and would actually ENCOURAGE pushpolling and any other form of "dirty campaigning" during the GE. This administration needs to be brought down.

[WilliamPitt]

18. Yeah, stupid voters!

There's a solid strategy.

[vi5]

35. A strategy that sadly seems to be winning new converts daily..

It's quite disheartening. Especially when it's coupled by lame-o threats of third party or abstained voting.

[Kolesar]

57. that's not what I said

[lancdem]

23. Exit polls in N.H. showed Kerry won not just with voters

for whom electabilty was the prime issue, but with those who thought the economy or health care or education were most important. It was more than electability. Whether that's the case in Feb. 3 states, we'll have to see.

[codegreen]

15. you scream.

sadly, and i say this as a former Dean enthusiast (donated 300 dollars, and i'm poor) that crying baby image in your post is starting to speak more of y'all than maybe you'd like.

[creativelcro]

17. I'm a dean supporter. This is NOT a dirty trick... C'mon...

Robocalling is. Dean supporters could have put a third sign in front of it or saying something counteracting the Kerry sign...

[slinkerwink]

22. this is just in conjunction with the robocalling

[Catholic Sensation]

34. that your friend "claudia" talked about

right?

Please, give proof other than second hand accounts from depressed dean campaign workers.

Linking to the abc news story isn't proof, as the campaign kicked the son of a bitch out who pulled that stunt AS IT PLAINLY STATES.

[rucky]

20. Doubting Coke? Choose Pepsi.

comparitive advertising 101


btw...what's with the "Hope Not Fear" slogan on the dean sign?

sounds familiar for some reason... but feel free to steal Kucinich's riffs. as long as the message gets out there.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. UNFAIR! UNFAIR! how dare you compare the two!!!

I demand that you retract this dirty trick against Coke, which, as everyone knows, is the Real Thing™ .

[emulatorloo]

24. This is parody, right?

Or did somebody break into Slinkerwink's acct?!?!?!?!

[TheDonkey]

26. Didn't Dean call Kerry, etc. cockroaches?

Dean sets the bar for negative campaigning.

[creativelcro]

28. RoboKerry calling is pretty negative campaigning....

[THUNDER HANDS]

29. and why is this wrong?

Dean saying "Kerry is the old guard, establishment, don't vote for him" is okay. But Kerry saying "Doubting Dean, vote for me" is a capital crime.

I mean, really.

This is fairly small potatos.

[DancingBear]

30. Absolutely nothing wrong with this

These were all over NH - mostly "stick in the snow" yard signs, placed at intersections, etc.

There is nothing dirty or underhanded about them - to be honest, I snickered a bit when I saw my first one. There were also several "Dated Dean, Married Kerry" ones as well.

This is just campaigning - nothing more.

[lurk_no_more]

31. Oh no, say it ain't so, a John Kerry campaign sign

Has this man no shame? LOL


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[mrgorth]

33. It may not be "dirty"

but it sure as fuck is lame as hell. Of course, since Kerry is stealing Dean's words right out of his mouth how does this matter?

[creativelcro]

36. But that should be expected!!! I mean, Dean should have a strategy

to countersteal the words Kerry stole from him...

[emulatorloo]

37. Dean "stole" his words from the Democratic Party

Of course I'm kidding - he's a Democrat!!!!!

Dean's message is the mainstream message of the Democratic Party. Just because it is new to a listener doesn't mean it is new.

[Catholic Sensation]

38. putting up posters is lame as hell?

or saying that "if you're not convinced about one guy, vote for me" is lame? Should Kerry put up signs saying "If you're not sure about Dean, why not give him a couple more looks"?

[Blitz]

79. Mr. "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"

Doesn't have a whole lot of room to complain about stealing people's words. At least Dean is alive to cry foul.

[killbotfactory]

40. Bush and Kerry

Two guys who think the presidency is their birthright, and will do anything to make it so.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. I know it was unintended but this is the most humorous thread of the day

[QC]

89. You got that right! n/t

[HuckleB]

46. This is interesting.

If Dean had done this, Kerry supporters would be screaming that "Dean went negative." But if Kerry does it, and someone complains, then it's funny? Then they are "new to politics?" Sorry, but the constantly changing definitions of what is and is not negative, in order to suit the needs of Kerry supporters is what is funny.

Thanks for sharing, slinkerwink.

[slinkerwink]

47. exactly!

[zulchzulu]

48. Sore losers will find any excuse they can drag out

Thinking people base their vote on a campaign sign is being a little naive.

[Catholic Sensation]

50. it seems these posts are created believing that DUers are naive,

because everytime slinkerwink posts this stuff, it's always her "friend" "Claudia" telling her this. OH MY GOD A POSTER NEAR A DEAN POSTER, WHAT DIRTY TRICKS!

[slinkerwink]

65. it's not every time, and stop trashing my friend

she worked her ass off for the dean campaign in NH.

[Blitz]

74. She should have worked a lot harder

apparently.

[slinkerwink]

76. she did----and we'll continue to work harder to bring down kerry

[Blitz]

80. That's your objective? To bring down Kerry?

Thanks for clarifying.

[NNN0LHI]

87. Smart. Real smart

slinkerwink (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-30-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #74

76. she did----and we'll continue to work harder to bring down kerry

[maddezmom]

49. seems a lot cleaner than some of the flyers floating about NH. n/t

[KFC]

51. I would never support a candidate that used POSTERS!

Holy fucking shit, how can he live with himself?

[FubarFly]

53. If it was just some POSTERS,

I'd agree with you. But alas...

[Nicholas_J]

59. Yes but Dean stole that HOPE NOT FEAR

From the Progressives who used it in a campaign against Dean in 2000:

Vote your hopes, not your fears
by Alexander Cockburn
The Nation magazine, October 30, 2000

...Once again, the state echoes with the anguished bellows of liberals that Pollina's candidacy will install Republican Ruth Dwyer and take Vermont back to medieval darkness. The Progressive Party has refused to stand down. Incumbent Governor Howard Dean is a DLC-type Democrat who never met a corporation he didn't like or a mountaintop he wasn't willing to sell to a ski-resort developer. Pollina, who had led Vermont's successful fight for public financing of statewide elections, became the first to benefit from it. As required by law, he raised $35,000 (from donations averaging $22), then qualified for $265,000 in public money, the only funds he can spend. Pollina was on an equal money footing with Dean. But not for long. A court threw out the law's spending limit, and immediately Dean inoperated years of pious blather about campaign finance reform. Five days after lauding such reform at the Democratic convention, he rejected public financing and put himself back on the block for corporate contributions and soft money from the Democratic Party.


Pollina and the Progressives have taken the | Democrats' scare strategy straight on. They say, Vote | Your Hopes, Not Your Fears. The campaign is rich I with proposals on healthcare, environmental protection, a living wage, stability for small farmers and small businesses. Pollina has plenty of ammunition against Dean, who has been running Vermont longer than Clinton/Gore have been in the White House. It's the pathetic national story. In Vermont, 95 percent of men under 22 in prison do not have high school equivalency. In the past ten years prison spending has increased by 135 percent, while spending on state colleges has increased by 7 percent. One of every seven Vermont men between 18 and 21 is under the supervision of the Corrections Department...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political_Reform/VoteHopes_NotFears.html

I find it amusing that this complaint is coming right in the place where Dean is using a ripped off campign slogan, and one used to oppose him in Vermont, none the less. This man cant even come up with a decent campaign slogan. It is apparant that with the misuse of 40 millio in campaign contributtions, that Dean's budget balancing act was more the result of the plans of Governor Snelling, who left a rather well mapped plan for getting rid of the state deficit, and by Vermont Progressives and liberal democrats who frequently opposed Dean and prevented many of his budgets from going into effect.


In 1991, then-Gov. Richard Snelling, a Republican, and the Democratic Legislature imposed surcharges on upper-income Vermonters to dig the state out of a huge budget deficit. Those surcharges were temporary, and they were lifted after the shortfall was repaid.

The Progressives said their proposal was designed to mirror the surcharges adopted during that last budget crisis, but they have not proposed an expiration date for the new surcharges.

http://timesargus.com/Legislature/Story/41293.html

The state was in a fiscal crisis at the time, working its way out of the biggest budget deficit in its history. Then-Gov. Richard Snelling had pushed a series of temporary tax increases and budget cuts through the Legislature and Dean took up that austerity plan as his own.

To the anger of more liberal members of his own party, he insisted that the tax increases be rolled back on schedule and then went on to work for additional tax cuts later in his tenure.




There are litterally dozens of cases in which Dean can be found to have misappropriated the words and in some cases even the entire speeches of other candidates. All of Deans first foreign affairs speech at the C.F.R. was literally ripped off paragraphy bt paragraph from Kerry's speech given to the same orgnization six months earlier in January of 2003. Each paragraph in Deans speech contains the same subject matter as the same paragraph in Kerry'speech, with Dean referring to Truman the Marchall plan and Kennedy in the same speech locations as Kerry did, and then in the same position paragraph, Dean uses Kerry's same use of the Roman Empire in comparison to the U.S. again in the same paragraph order as Kerry's speech. I have failed students for less obvious plagerism.

Then there is the time at a Kerry, only convention, where the Dean supporters not opnly insisted on attending because it was after all a public meeting, but on covering up all of Kerry's banners and signs with Dean campaign signs.

[HuckleB]

60. Wow! Is using a slogan first used by others considered "negative?"

Or a "dirty trick?"

Just wondering.

[Duncan Grant]

62. That's not a dirty trick, it's real estate.

Location. Location. Location. :evilgrin:

With you in spirit slinkerwink, but sign placement is just good old fashion politics. Hold on to your hat, there will be much more to feel indignant about as the weeks and months progress.

So glad to see you're still passionate for your candidate (as am I)...no one here should criticize you for that! Those other guys would be lucky to have 10 just like you! :hi:

[mitchum]

66. "Nothing hurts when you're winning"- J. Namath

Kerry 2004

ABB

[Cocoa]

67. so this is the last straw, eh?

I've heard so many last straws for Kerry. "I can no longer support Kerry after he said 'get over it'", "I can no longer support Kerry after he suggested sending Baker to the Middle East", etc. etc.

This sign is kind of anticlimactic after all the offenses against humanity that Kerry has committed.

[absyntheNsugar]

70. I'm with ya most of the time Slinkerwink, but this is par for the course

I'm used to seeing entire walls PLASTERED with every candidate under the sun near election time. If there's a chain link fence, guarantee there will be a million posters before an election.

Kerry *may* have played dirty tricks (or it could have been the Repubs) but this is not a dirty trick. This is culture jamming (or at least that is the unintended consequence)

[Renew Deal]

71. That's not a dirty trick. It's nasty, but no trickery involved.

But like I said a long time ago. A lot of newbie Dean supporters were going to learn a lesson about politics.

[Catholic Sensation]

72. there's nothing nasty about this

it's a sign suggesting another candidate if someone isn't sold on howard dean.

[HuckleB]

75. Nope. Not at all.

It's only nasty if it's done to Kerry, not if he's doing it to someone else.

:eyes:

[HuckleB]

73. Interesting.

I wonder why you make this statement about Dean supporters, yet I have yet to see you make this statement when Kerry supporters make a claim that "Dean went negative" when all he really did was make a point of distinquishment between himself and Kerry. The history of claims around here leads me to believe that, if this poster was the other way around, many of those now "laughing" on this board would be irate. Yet, somehow it's only "newbie Dean supporters" who have lessons to learn? Call me confused.

[populistmom]

77. It is a dirty trick

But when people fall for it on its merits alone, they must be pretty dumb to say the least.
Unfortunately, many candidates seem to cater to the moron demographic. (Probably most in fact.)

[Freddie Stubbs]

81. How in the world is that a dirty trick?

It highlighted the legitamate concern that many voters had a bout Dean being ready for prime time.

[Blitz]

82. It's not a dirty trick

It's desperate people playing the victim card. It's kinda pathetic.

[Joseph Thule]

85. This is what happened: people woke up and realized Dean would be a

DISASTER.



jmo

[Tesha]

86. Today, Friday, the Nashua Telegraph finally published a photo...

Today, Friday, the Nashua Telegraph finally published a photo
that showed a very large sign above four typical Dean lawn signs.
The message on the large sign?

"You can steal my signs, but you can't steal my vote!"

Today, of course, three days *AFTER* the NH Primary,
the message that Dean signs were being stolen all
over New Hampshire can't hurt any of Howard Dean's
opponents any more or help Howard Dean.

Tell me again why I should now support the people who
fight in this fine, fair way?

Tesha

[Joseph Thule]

88. Dean has 40 million dollars, a large amount of news coverage, loads of

supporters, and you're bitching about YARD SIGNS.

[Tatiana]

90. Hmmmm.....

I think we should print some "Two Long Johns plus a cup of Joe = Status Quo."