Fineman sees severe consequences in Abramoff scandal, then turns comedian

[ProSense]

Winners and losers in the Abramoff scandal
The GOP could suffer, opening the way for a third-party movement

By Howard Fineman
MSNBC contributor
Updated: 1:12 p.m. ET Jan. 4, 2006


WASHINGTON - Forget the black hat. Everybody here is obsessed with Jack Abramoff’s gangster-like attire as he came out of the federal courthouse. But the thing that jumps out at me is the figure $20,194,000. If I read the fed’s plea-agreement papers correctly, that’s the amount of cold cash that the Republican lobbyist siphoned from Indian tribes and stashed in his secret accounts.

You may not believe this, but in this city, that is an unheard of amount of money for a lobbyist to haul in — and the number itself signifies a troubling change in the nature of life in the capital of our country.

The denizens of D.C. deal in trillions of dollars. But they are YOUR dollars: tax receipts and federal spending. Lawyers and lobbyists here do well. Still, they haven’t generally been in the same league as money-power types in, say, New York or Los Angeles. This was a city in which official position meant more than a plush vacation home; in which a Ph.D. or J.D. meant more than a BMW. Traditionally, the locals have been more like Vegas blackjack dealers than the greedy people sitting on the other side of the table.


LOSERS

Members of Congress: Lawmakers fingered by the feds in Abramoff probe, or who received campaign contributions through the networking of Abramoff, and who are facing re-election this November. Voters tend to like, or at least tolerate, their local congressman, and assume that they aren’t part of the corrupt world of Washington — until the member’s name surfaces in a context like this one. (More...)


Snip(punchline)...

WINNERS

Third-party reform movement: If Sen. John McCain doesn’t win the Republican presidential nomination, I could see him leading an independent effort to “clean up” the capital as a third-party candidate. Having been seared by his own touch with this type of controversy (the Keating case in the '80s, which was as important an experience to him as Vietnam), McCain could team up with a Democrat, say, Sen. Joe Lieberman. If they could assemble a cabinet in waiting — perhaps Wes Clark for defense, Russ Feingold for justice, Colin Powell for anything — they could win the 2008 election going away.

more...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10708359/from/RSS/

[rosesaylavee]

1. Colin Powell is

a liar and shouldn't be part of ... wait, is that where you think he turned comedian?

I got the joke a bit late but it did save me from a rant. :hi:

[noonwitch]

19. If Powell explained why he lied to the UN, I'd at least listen

I would be curious what (or who) compelled him to trash his integrity so thoroughly. I always respected him up until that point, and I would like to be able to respect him again.

[Marnieworld]

22. I personally think Powell is quietly trying to save his soul

I have strong suspicions that he is one of the Plamegate leaks and maybe even the Spygate info. Just a theory of course. If he gave a convincing mea culpa and sold out the evil ones I'd consider him redeemed enough not to hate him but I'd never trust him again.

On edit: one of the good leakers/whistleblowers-the ones exposing when they knew she was covert and how (state dept memo etc.)

[rosesaylavee]

51. I think he is one of the "leakers" too

but like you, I will never trust him again. I think I read his biography two times thru when it came out and was very impressed and hopefull that one day he would be our first black president. No more, needless to say!

I hope he does a few other things to save his soul... would like all the dirt out in the bright light of day.

[xchrom]

2. excuse me --

:puke:

[ugarte]

5. I'm with you. I'd as soon have Bush-Cheney as McCain-Lieberman

nt

[Name removed]

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[Marnieworld]

26. tomato tomatah! eom

[Name removed]

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[Marnieworld]

38. I never said Lieberman is equal to Bush

But Bush clearly wants to be a dictator. He thumbs his nose at the Constitution daily, wants complete secrecy and no checks and balances. He has said several times publicly that he'd prefer being a dictator. He believes that he is above the law and took a security crisis like 9/11 for his own advantage just like Hitler did with the Reichstag. He wants to seize people without due process, hold them indefinitely, torture them, and he even has an executive order that declares that he has the power to declare anyone, even an American citizen, an "enemy combatant" and therefore can be killed within his imperial discretion. This is all off the top of my head. None of it sounds very American or democratic to me. He has no respect for the value of our Constitution and the philosophies behind our inherent freedoms clearly demonstrated time and again throughout his terms. Hitler had a bigger body count but does that excuse Bush's?

I see that you have been here for two days. I suggest that you spend less time playing GOP devil's advocate and more time educating yourself.

[Name removed]

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[Marnieworld]

3. How intellectually dishonest of him

Why would a 3rd party be necessary when only one party is caught up in the corruption? I didn't read the whole article I confess because he lost me completely with the inclusion of Lieberman as if that is a concession to the left to balance the ticket? Clueless or lying.

[Name removed]

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[ProSense]

8. The Republican party is corrupt. n/t

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[ProSense]

14. No, it's why the Democrats will win. n/t

[Name removed]

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[Marnieworld]

delete dupe

WTF is wrong with me today? :crazy:

[Marnieworld]

23. I suggest that you read up on the last several elections

People turned out in droves and new registrations were historic. This never reflects positively on the incumbent. People were very excited to vote for Kerry as evidenced from his enormous rallies and financial support from many grass roots organizations. You sound like you are still operating on a pre- BBV mindset where you can actually point to an election result as proof of how voters feel.

Spend some time in the election reform forum and read some Mark Crispin Miller. Your framing of "uncharismatic bitter liberal" sounds like so much cable news group think. Conventional wisdom is not wise.

[Name removed]

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[ProSense]

31. Republicans have to resort to voter intimidation and dirty tricks. n/t

[Marnieworld]

43. Can't resist one more

That GAO is one crazy group of tin foil hatter frings liberals!

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529

Logic for both 2000 and 2004. If a candidate gets more votes than the other guy than people liked what they had to say.

Your blanket statements of fact are anything but. Keep building up your post count sweetie but I won't help you anymore.

Peace.

[Name removed]

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[ProSense]

50. The GAO's and Conyers' reports cite vote switching (fraud) n/t

[ProSense]

30. In whose eyes? The RW's? Reality: the Republican Party is corrupt. n/t

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[ProSense]

36. Ah, the Republican/Abramoff way! n/t

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[ProSense]

42. You're on the wrong board if you're advocating not telling the truth. n/t

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[Marnieworld]

20. delete dupe

[Marnieworld]

21. I disagree

If we just speak the truth regardless of where pundits put that in the political spectrum then we will win. I reject the DLC concept of strategizing and calculating what is electable. That thinking is part of why the country is in the shape it is in today. "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

We need more Howard Deans who just speak the truth fearlessly. I reject the thinking that he isn't effective. He was selected as the DNC leader overwhelmingly by Democrats around the country he revolutionized the fundraising with grass roots small donations from ordinary pissed off citizens. If you look at any poll since August it is clear by large margins where the country is really on the spectrum. They are already calling for impeachment, hardly a moderate stance. As Dr. Phil would ask, "How's that working for you?"

On edit: of course this is only when we get voter verified paper ballots. Until then the will of the people is a complete unknown.

[Name removed]

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[Nordmadr]

9. Your entitled to your opinion, but any ticket with

Bush "hug buddy" McCain and 'stolen kiss" Lieberman on it will NEVER get a vote of mine, I don't care who else gets tossed into cabinet positions to make up for it.

Olafr

[ProSense]

10. Yes. He was joking. A Democrat is going to be the next president. n/t

[Name removed]

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[ProSense]

15. No it's a "ha ha" from Howard Funnyman. n/t

[Name removed]

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[ProSense]

33. Fineman is RW no doubt, picking a Republican to head a "ha ha" ticket. n/t

[Name removed]

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[ProSense]

40. OK, then this is a RW shill piece, and I'm still laughing. n/t

[Marnieworld]

25. As opposed to Hillary's leftist following?

She's not very popular with anyone but moderates now.

[Name removed]

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[Marnieworld]

41. No energized base?

So this is a knitting circle?

Hitting ignore button now before I say something that I regret-something along the lines of ,"You don't fool me."

[Name removed]

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[karynnj]

18. Until Kerry confirms this one way or the other

it may not be true.

1) Kerry said he would say nothing about who he talks to for VP and he said absolutely nothing until he picked Edwards. Then he refused to say who if anyone else was looked at.

2) The McCain stories came from various inside the beltway people and contained McCain first playing with the idea and then rejecting it. All the "quotes" were McCain.(I know the 2 were friends, but there's an obvious problem - the main good of being VP is to become President if the President dies and to have a good shot at the nomination if Kerry gets 2 terms. The Democrats wouldn't like the former or do the latter. If it was played with at all by Kerry - he likely never serious and McCain (after the election) when pressed admitted Kerry never officially made an offer.

3) Who gets hurt by the stories and who is helped? Kerry, McCain. The after the election story told by McCain doesn't ring true at all - it portrays himself as calmly listing all the negatives and Kerry screaming and swearing at him - the same Kerry who never screamed as an anti-war activist. From all inside accounts over the course of his life, Kerry is not one to sceam and lose his temper. But there is someone who reacts that way, McCain. (By McCain's own account Kerry had to help him (McCain from exploding during the POW/MIA hearings.)

Fineman is just a McCain groupie as is most of Newsweek. Being guilty in the Keating 5 S&L scandal doesn't make you a reformer , why not consider the guy who risked his career to fight the corrupt banks and who has no history of scandal. (Also, speaking out against your own country breaking international law is a better predicter of who would honor international law than having been a POW.)

[peacetalksforall]

11. Fineman went up from a minus 100 to a minus 99 imo, but he is stuck

there. He is a right wing propagandist first and last. I will be very surprised if he ever rates a higher mark on my credibility scale. I don't care who he is friends with.

I can't replace my memory of his extremely active history in the character assassination and impeachment of Clinton. He has been cruel in his sarcastic know-it-all manner with his character assassination of Gore as well. I can't forget Fineman's past?

Ask yourself why a journalist always works for one party and whose entire body is a smirk with a sassyily mean remark about Democrats. And now people are probably are going to believe that he is morphing away from the right.

Fineman - down there with O'Reilly for me. Everything he writes and his live words are a constant example of the war on Democrats and the common people.

[IA_Seth]

24. Oh lord...

Why sully the names of Wes Clark and Russ Feingold with Powell, Liberman,and McCain? Puke.

As much as I would like to see Clark in a position of leadership, I would never even consider voting for this ticket for a minute. More because of Liberman than because of McCain...Lieberman is turn-coat pig who doesn't deserve the D after his name...IMO of course.

[Name removed]

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[IA_Seth]

44. Yeah, yeah...

I was waiting for that. Sure, its great he adds to the D column and increases the chances of a D majority... without that extra sitting Dem we would have less power.

Point ceded.

However, I can only take so much and if I could replace him with just about any other Dem out there, I would. I don't have to be excited about someone who promotes the war in Iraq and defends our current misguided foreign policies.

[Neil Lisst]

45. Fineman is getting senile if he thinks McCain-Lieberman wins.

If you listen to them long enough, most of our political analysts blab the most inane ideas in the name of originality.

If they did run together as independents, they'd get no more than 25% of the vote in any state. They would not get a single electoral vote.

[PretzelWarrior]

52. ummmm.....Keating 5 scandal had same affect on McCain as Vietnam?

wow. this Fineman is quite the dope smoker.

[cry baby]

53. I can make heads nor tails of this thread with all the deleted posts...

what has been happening? Was it a troll?