Here's what REALLY happened in Iowa and NH. It'll happen all over the US.

[blm]

>>>>>>>>
Vietnam-era veterans are, in theory, a formidable voting bloc of 8.4 million, not to mention their families. Counting on them, though, is a high-risk strategy. "These are often veterans who felt left out, who haven't registered to vote, who felt badly used by politicians," Cleland said after the Somersworth meeting.

"They don't show up in polling." For some, their capacity to trust was permanently undermined by combat trauma. Many, points out Doyle, were shunned by VFW and American Legion posts and have never reconnected to national veterans organizations. The Kerry campaign has responded with an innovative strategy reaching back to the Vietnam veterans movement's roots in GI coffeehouses and discussion groups: In 26 states his field operation has established direct veteran-to-veteran outreach, insulated from conventional phone-banking and the rest of the campaign staff.

Is Kerry bringing Vietnam veterans in from the cold? In Davenport, Iowa, I observed one caucus where the results were startling and suggestive: Vets and their families made up two-thirds of newly registered Democrats, who gave Kerry a lopsided margin over all competitors. Statewide, veterans were credited with aiding his unexpectedly strong first-place finish.
>>>>>>

Could Vietnam veterans and their families tip a presidential race? Contemplate this: The most frequently visited monument in Washington is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.

-- By Bruce Shapiro, The Nation January 30, 2004

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17703

[Feanorcurufinwe]

1. Millions of Republican veterans will be voting for Kerry this November!

former Republicans, I should say...

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bbmykel]

2. |They certainly turned out for John McCain, didn't they? (n/t)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

6. even more the reason they will this time. nt

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. I'm not saying

that Kerry could beat Bush in a GOP primary, lol. I'm talking about the general election.

[Justice]

3. This Is A Great Story

My mom is regularly called by the veteran's in NH for donations (she gives, so they keep calling). When they called last fall, she told them she was not going to give anyone more money because the veterans kept supporting republicans.

The caller said, yes, he understood my mom's frustration and said they would "address that at the polls."

It is very good that veterans are supporting a democrat - as a democrat will treat them well.

[NNN0LHI]

4. This is Roves worst nightmare n/t

[Sugarbleus]

31. It sure could be NNN...

My hubby is a VN vet. 101st airborne

He and his buddies still haven't gotten over their service and the bungling of that "conflict". My hubby says he can't STAND Bush for sending those "kids" into war for NOTHING--we knew it was wrong in the first place. He can't cope with hearing of the numbers of killed in action. We both "knew", deep down, by some intuitive sense that Booosh/rumsfeld et al would f*ck up the end game and put our men in a deep shit. Not to mention the horror it has wreaked on the innocents in Iraq.

We are furious with Bush. We are Dems anyway, but if hubby runs into anyone considering voting for GW, they run the risk of hubby "going off" on them.
So that's how bad it is with this family of Viet Nam suvivors.

[sandnsea]

5. Part of the conspiracy

no doubt about it.

[quinnox]

7. What really happened is the people spoke

and they decided John Kerry is the best man in the field. They decided they want Kerry to be their president. What a great choice the Democrats made! I salute them.

Fingers crossed that America will decide the same come November.

[polpilot]

22. "What really happened is the DLC spoke"

Go to the DLC site for more cheerleading!! Nothing wrong with being DLC. Nothing wrong with wanting things to remain the same. Nothing wrong with Kerry bringing in Jim Baker. Make things smooth. Won't have to wonder about what might happen.

Dean '04...The ONLY Hope

[blm]

25. hahahahahahahaah.....exaggerations r us....is that a dot com?

.

[polpilot]

26. Don't be ashamed to vote DLC establishment pro-war...just say it.

Just admit I'm DLC establishment pro-war. It's certainly your choice.

Dean '04..The anti-establishment choice.

[blm]

38. Liberals like Kerry pulled left while centrists like Dean pulled right

for many years.

Thankfully....because if the the centrists like Dean won, the party and the DLC would have been even FURTHER RIGHT.

[JohnKleeb]

46. I admit endorsements seldom make me look at a guy

but if you got Ted Kennedy behind you, who opposed the war and has said him and Kerry's belief on the war is simliar I think, then if you got Ted Kennedy behind, I say youre a lucky bastard :), but then again I have a bias :).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Maybe it's because in his "do nothing " senate job, he has consistently

voted to increase veteran's benefits which improved moreso under Bill Clinton than any other president in recent history and are being reduced by Bush and the Republicans in the congress.

[StlMo]

9. Very interesting

:kick:

[IowaBiker]

10. Veterans are part of the story.

Having missed the Bush/Quayle replacement draft by only a few months, I saw the guys come home and remember the emptyness in these guys eyes.

Our government really did hurt these people in a big way.

I don't think I've ever seen that look in anybody elses eyes but 'Nam vets. It's how I can spot a vet a hundred yards away.

Only one thing though. At a Kerry rally that look disappears. It was one of the most startling things about going to an event.

I don't think it's entirely a Kerry/vet thing. I think this war in Iraq is like 'Nam in a lot of ways. Once more we have a lieing, scheming Texan in office who really doesn't give a damn about the truth or the soldiers.

It's good to see hope in these guys eyes. And if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for me.

--Brian

[THUNDER HANDS]

11. I hope so

Kerry has so many bases of support to play off of - veterans, women, young people, that he will be a damn formidable opponent in November.

[lovedems]

12. It depends if they are involved in the VFW.

I have 2 uncles (by marriage, aunts husbands) that are vietnam war veterans. One never saw combat and is involved with the VFW. They are pretty hard core republicans. The one who never saw combat loves the chimp and will vote repub. no matter what. He is a "big war" talker.

The other, saw wicked combat and won't join any organization about war and won't talk about his combat during vietnam. It is not a topic of discussion for him. He is a staunch democrat who won't buy the spin of Kerry tossing his medals as bad or unpatriotic.

[rucky]

14. I guess we'll put the theory to the test in SC

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. Veterans add power to Kerry's drive

"... In Iowa, a group of 100 or so mostly Vietnam veterans made thousands of calls to other vets on Kerry's behalf. In New Hampshire, veterans from 26 states came to do the same.

Kerry connects with veterans on several levels, says fellow Vietnam veteran John Hurley, who has known Kerry since his short-lived campaign for Congress in 1970 and who now volunteers as the national director of Veterans for Kerry. Many are deeply appreciative that he gave voice to their own doubts about Vietnam. And, Hurley adds, veterans feel a particular camaraderie with Kerry because, as a small unit commander, he lived with his crew, facing the war's daily dangers with them.

Which is not to say they are with him on every issue. Some, Hurley acknowledges, were upset by the senator's vote authorizing war with Iraq. "They say, `I disagree with him on Iraq, but we want a vet in the White House, and he is my guy.' "

There's no doubt that by highlighting their guy's wartime courage and underscoring the bond veterans feel with him -- a bond Republican candidates more often enjoy -- Kerry's brigades are brightening his prospects of arriving there."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/01/30/veterans_add_power_to_kerrys_drive?mode=PF

[Thistle42]

16. During the Veteran's Day events in DC,

my husband and I (both Vietnam Veterans...doctor and nurse) met MANY veterans that were voicing anti-Bush and ABB statements. Someone at our dinner stood to toast the president and the room was silent. I think there is going to be some real chance for change in November! I support Clark, but I would not be unhappy with Kerry. Both are heroes in the eyes of veterans.

[Ivote]

18. We have

a lot of military people and their
families at our meetings also

[absyntheNsugar]

17. If this is the case - do you think the wounds from the 60's might heal?

Going on the whole theory that the baby boom generation was divided - and has remained so until now.

If Kerry brings the Baby Boom vetrans to the Democrats this could be huge.

I'm no Kerry supporter (I have my reasons) but this is a factor that would make me more optimistic if Kerry got the nomination.

[blm]

20. good point. Iowa biker post above is a must read.

.

[not systems]

19. That's great.

If Kerry can swing this block it is very good for the GE.

[Emillereid]

21. Not all Vietnam vets like Kerry -- read the following:

GUEST COLUMN: SEN. JOHN KERRY

Vietnam stance irks veterans

By TERRY GARLOCK



Terry L. Garlock of Peachtree City was a Cobra helicopter pilot in Vietnam.

Forum:
• Were John Kerry's protests against the Vietnam War inappropriate?


Now that U.S. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) is claiming the veteran vote based on his war record, both sides of that story should be told.

To appreciate the dark side of Kerry's war record, you should know a few things about Vietnam veterans.
<snip>

A young Kerry, however, broke faith with his brothers when he returned to the United States. With the financial aid of Jane Fonda, he led highly visible protests against the war. He wrote a book that many considered to be pro-Hanoi, titled "The New Soldier."

The cover photo of his book depicted veterans in a mismatch of military uniforms mocking the legendary image of Marines raising the American flag atop Mount Suribachi in the 1945 battle for Iwo Jima, holding the American flag upside down.

Kerry publicly supported Hanoi's position to use our POWs as a bargaining chip in negotiations for a peace agreement. Kerry threw what appeared to be his medals over a fence in front of the Capitol building in protest, on camera of course, but was caught in his lie years later when his medals turned up displayed on his office wall.....

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/0104/29garlock.html

[blm]

23. They are in the minority.

This is a right wing tactic. No biggie. The word is getting out about Bush and veterans and THAT is what matters.

[loyalsister]

49. It's lame

to renounce the war then glorify his service. It's just another one of his inconsistancies that make me not trust him.

[Printer70]

27. Vietnam Vets HATE Kerry

for throwing away his medals away and described American soldiers as war criminals before the US Congress. His vitriolic "Veterans against Vietnam" tore at the morale of those still fighting in Vietnam. They have never forgiven him and never will.

[molly]

28. Who do they like then?

[iowapeacechief]

29. No such thing--it was VVAW...

...Vietnam Veterans Against the War. It sounds like you don't remember those days, so who told you this stuff?

[blm]

40. 30 years of Nixon era propagandists

have left a trail.

Remember the Nixon tapes. "Bring the young demagogue down before we have another Ralph Nader."

[SOS]

43. Some may, but not all

Of my Vietnam veteran friends and acquaintences, not one is voting for Bush. That's only about 10 guys so it's far from a scientific survey, but not one would vote Bush.

[sleipnir]

30. No offense, but Vietnam Vets are the LAST people I want deciding this

Most are about to go onto AARP, if they're not already there, which most are. I'm not a big AARP fan nor am I a big fan of those who are ready for retirement and the hereafter. That's where most of the Vets/Babyboomers are. This election should be about the future of our country and the Party and should be decided by people who will be around in 20 years and not dead.

The whole "Baby-boomer" issue is a major hangup for our party. We need to move beyond the few issues that will concern that group of people and focus on the future. Why is it that only the old people vote and care about this country? Or that their votes matter more?

[incapsulated]

32. Well, if that's the case..

Get used to it, because this country is rapidly aging and they are going to be a voting force to be reckoned with. They already are.

On the other hand, these people have something in common with the youngest: they are generally anti-war.

[Skidmore]

34. Why is it only the old people vote?

Perhaps because the young are too busy learning the ways of the world. How old are you? Not to worry, one of these days you'll be old too.

My suggestion is that if you are so worried about the future of our country, you encourage other 20 somethings to get out and vote.

[IowaBiker]

35. Should I buy my own iceberg?

Your ideas of compassion towards my generation are a bit disturbing.

So all the money I put into social security that Bush hasn't stolen, you want for yourself? Take the home I've paid for, and give me a refrigerator box by the river?

I don't get his.

BTW, I really care about the kind of place I leave behind for my children. It's why I've grown more liberal as I've grown older.

But, if the new Democratic Party is now a party of plug-pulling children, you could change my mind, back.

--Brian

[union_maid]

36. No offense?

OK, if we can write off that response to youth, ignorance and immaturity then I guess as an ancient person in my fifties I guess I won't take offense.

[Leilani]

44. No Offense, but you don't know

what the heck you are talking about.

As an old, crotchety boomer, we could give you a lesson about political activism.

When your generation stops a war, then I'll listen to you.

Furthermore, without our vote, you get squat, because we outnumber you and all other demographics.

So, go do your homework, study some American history, & have respect for your elders.

[arcos]

33. interesting!

Excellent approach from the Kerry campaign... If turnout were to increase, most new voters would probably vote democratic. Veterans, young voters, and other people who feel disenfranchised are probably the key to victory.

[veggiemama]

37. Thanks for posting this info, BLM!!!

I'm an unabashed Kucinich supporter and I'll fight for him to the finish. But, I'm not totally unrealistic, and I've been searching for a reason to believe Kerry--you've just given me that reason. If these vets, who have no reason to believe ANY promises from politicians, can believe again, then so can I. And I don't say that lightly.

[blm]

39. Hi veg....I unabashedly support both Kerry and Kucinich.

I love them both. Kerry for 3 years and Kucinich for 32 years.

[henslee]

41. From Kucinich to Kerry in one post? Aren't you open minded.

And I don't say that likely.

[blm]

42. More Kucinich supporters like Kerry than you may realize.

They tend to scrutinize records closely and Kerry's lifetime record is the closest to Wellstone's of all the candidates.

Kerry and Kucinich are by far the two most progressive candidates in the race.

[JohnKleeb]

47. we're working on it

:)
The other one I notice people like is Edwards. A long time DK supporter who really influenced my support of him likes Edwards a lot.

[iowapeacechief]

50. K-K All The Way!

What a team that would be!

[SOS]

48. Americans for Democratic Action

Lifetime ratings:
Kerry 92
Kucinich 86
Edwards 85

ABB!

[blm]

51. That says it all....the Dean supporters can't stand that fact.

They mouth platitudes about agreeing with Dennis and accuse Kerry of being Bushlite with all the dripping sanctimony that you NEVER see from a Kucinich supporter and the bottom line is that they'll choose their centrist candidate over any liberal in the race.

[veggiemama]

52. Why yes, as a matter of fact, I'm extremely open minded. But I

certainly didn't switch from Kooch to Kerry in one post. I didn't switch at all. BLM & I go back a long cyber-way, and as long as she understands me, that all I care about. I have the utmost respect for BLM political acumen and integrity, and I wanted to let her know that her hard work ain't for nothing. Of course I want Dennis Kucinich to be the next POTUS, but it's not going to happen--not without a revolution in our collective consciouses and unconsciouses. DK will go a long way toward creating just such a revolution--but not just yet! And I will be in the front lines when that happens . . .

[Corgigal]

45. I must have lost my mind

As a Veteran the reason I don't back Kerry is because he is someone who has seen combat but he allowed Bush to use the kids again. I have him at a higher standard then say, Edwards. He should have KNOWN about these lies better then anyone but choose to do what he thought was the popular thing at the time. He knew better, not that he will ever fess up to that.