Freeper Friend just sent e-mail about how all the Dems took

[leftyladyfrommo]

cash from Abramoff.

I find that kind of a backward argument. He has a whole list and amounts. I have no idea where he got the info or if its even correct. I don't think they care - just put anything out there to make the Dems look bad.

Personally, I am just sick of crooked politicians and I don't care what party they come from. Get them out of there.

[NewJeffCT]

1. Abramoff gave nothing directly to Democrats

0, zip, zilch, nada.

Some clients of his donated to Democrats, but that was all legit.

[ret5hd]

10. It's too funny that...

every time this is posted, it is INSTANTLY rebutted (within the first three or so replys), yet, it STILL finds its way here yet again!

Seems they would figure it out sooner...we weren't fooled, we're not fooled, and we're not gonna be fooled in the future.

[NewJeffCT]

30. It's not that

While we know it's not true, it's sent out there again and again to raise a "reasonable doubt" in the minds of the moderates who don't pay a lot of attention to it. If those moderates who don't always follow it closely like most on DU keep hearing "bipartisan scandal", then it may sink in.

We've been debunking the myth that Sudan offered Osama bin Laden to Bill Clinton 3 times, but was turned down for nearly a decade now. Yet, it's still out there and many still believe there must be some truth to it.

[ret5hd]

33. i'm referring to posting it on DU...

not the genpop.

[Agnomen]

2. freepers keep posting that list

every time there's a mention of Abramoff - that's their only reply.

[corkhead]

8. I say fine, lets kick all of those who took money from Abramoff

out of office, who cares what party they are from. I'm happy to trade chess pieces with them...

[leftyladyfrommo]

12. I would post it but I don't know how to get it from there to here.

I know nothing about computer stuff.

But if you just read that and didn't notice there isn't a source it could be pretty convincing.

[Orangepeel]

20. highlight the text using your mouse

press down on the right mouse button. Choose "copy". Click on the box where you are typing your DU posting. press down on the right mouse button. Choose "paste"

or

highlight the text using your mouse. Hold down the key labled "ctrl" on your keyboard. While holding down that button, press the "c" key. Click on the box where you are typing your DU posting. Hold down the "ctrl" key while pressing the "v" key.

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. He says Kerry took $100,000

But there is no source on this piece. Just says it was put out by the Republican National whatever they call it.

Anybody know the correct figures for democrats so I can e-mail him back and start a fight.

[CBHagman]

19. E-mail him this, especially the Reagan and Bush bits.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/11/AR2005081101752.html

From the article linked above:

"As a Bush 'Pioneer,' Abramoff also raised more than $100,000 for the president's reelection in 2004. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) was 'a very close friend,' according to Abramoff's description, as well as a participant in costly trips to Moscow and Scotland arranged and partly subsidized by Abramoff or his clients."

Raising six-figure amounts for Bush is not proof of Kerry support. By the way, I've been hearing Abramoff cited as a "Pioneer" for at least five years, so the link to Bush goes back at least to the 2000 election.

Check out this background on Abramoff, also from an article dating months back:

"Abramoff got his start in politics as an organizer for Ronald Reagan while attending Brandeis University in 1980. Shortly afterward, he made his first connections to others who would command influence in Washington when he became the head of the College Republican National Committee in 1981. One of his predecessors was Karl Rove, and three of his colleagues in the group at the time -- Grover Norquist, Ralph Reed and Amy Ridenour -- would later play helpful roles in Abramoff's Washington work."

Got that? He volunteered for RONALD REAGAN. So the "He gave money to Democrats and Republicans" bit is lazy reporting. If you actually check the amounts and information, the reference may be to donations made by, for example, Native American tribes to candidates. The tribes are not on trial, though they were apparently exploited and overcharged (and mocked) by Abramoff.

Also, look at the names in that paragraph.

I'll try to find more references. But call on the carpet anyone, "journalist" or otherwise, who tries to paint all donations as directly from Abramoff. There are a handful of people in serious trouble, notably Rep. Bob Ney and others who were cited in the charging documents.

[blm]

4. Then post his lies here - Just because some of a tribe's members donated

to Democrats, they DIDN'T get money from Abramoff.

The lying emails are intended to dupe the GOP believers into repeating their lies to others.

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. Well, you know, they actually really, really belive this stuff

[blm]

11. The people who START these emails know they are lying.

Just like the Swiftliars and the GOP operatives behind them knew they were lying.

[stop the bleeding]

13. Because they are simple minded SHEEPLE n/t

[berni_mccoy]

5. No Dems RECEIVED ANY MONEY FROM ABRAMOFF

Look up Abramoff at opensecrets.org or on the FEC's campaign website.

Abramoff GAVE $ ONLY TO REPUBS.

The confusion here is that Dems received money from groups that Abramoff STOLE FROM.

Abramoff Used Money from these groups to ILLEGALLY BRIBE REPUBLICANS for CORPORATIONS. PERIOD.

Dems never had dealings with Abramoff and followed the Campaign Finance Law.

[RobertSeattle]

6. It's quite a strategy

I call it the "But but but but the Democrats did it too" strategy. It's pretty pathetic.

They also try a false equivalency - the Dems got far less money via Abramoff and absolutely none directly from Abramoff - he's a Republican.

[stop the bleeding]

9. Repeat after me - the DEMS on that list received money from A'moff's

clients not A'moff directly and there is nothing wrong it happens all of time.

The problem with this scandal is that A'moff gave his OWN money directly from his pocket to the Repukes pockets to influence votes on legislation that said Rep. would not normally vote on.

See Bob Ney for reference.

See the difference now, and that is why H. Reid and P. Kennedy are NOT giving the money back because 1st of all they got it from the tribes that their states represent and secondly they did not get it from A'moff.

Sheeple are incapable of defining the details in this because they come out looking like crooks - which they are.

[InternalDialogue]

14. "Then let's make sure we take a good, hard look at this whole thing!"

That's the best response. It'll end the painful discussion with the freeper, first of all. Then we'll shake out the laundry and see what's what. Your freeper friend can't be averse to that, right?

[leftyladyfrommo]

15. This is a Bush stalwart - nothing is going to change his

mind. What's left of it. He did a lot of dope for a long time.

[MindPilot]

23. Hey I did a lot of dope for a long time, and I'm not a neocon.

There is something else wrong with him.

[SmokingJacket]

16. It's a lie.

Though I agree; all crooked politicians should go.

But no Dems took money from Abramoff.

[tulsakatz]

17. it's their typical rationale for everything!!

If they can say 'the other side did it too' then maybe they won't look as bad!!

But the problem is this..........Republicans claim to be the party of moral integrity and this was very clearly wrong!!!

Even if money did go to Democrats, that doesn't make it any less wrong! And btw, Abramoff hates Democrats! Why would he give money to them?

[LiberalEsto]

18. Will Pitt's column yesterday in Truthout

Will wrote:
"According to campaign donation information gathered by the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, the following officeholders and candidates have received political donations from Abramoff since 2000:

Tom DeLay (R-Texas). John Ashcroft (R-Mo.). Frank A. LoBiondo (R-NJ). Eric Cantor (R-Va.). Arlen Specter (R-Pa.). John Ensign (R-Nev.). Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.). Charles H. Taylor (R-NC). Chris Cannon (R-Utah). Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa). Mark Foley (R-Fla.). Richard Pombo (R-Calif.). Christopher S. "Kit" Bond (R-Mo.). Curt Weldon (R-Pa.). Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.). Doug Ose (R-Calif.). Ernest J. Istook (R-Okla.). George R. Nethercutt Jr. (R-Wash.). Jim Bunning (R-Ky.). Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.). Tom Feeney (R-Fla.). Dan Burton (R-Ind.). Eric Cantor (R-Va.). Suzanne Terrell (R-La.). Rob Simmons (R-Conn.). Charles W. "Chip" Pickering Jr. (R-Miss.). Connie Morella (R-Md.). Gordon H. Smith (R-Ore.). James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.). James M. Talent (R-Mo.). John T. Doolittle (R-Calif.). John Thune (R-SD). Tim Hutchinson (R-Ark.). Bob Smith (R-Fla.). Bob Ney (R-Ohio). CL. "Butch" Otter (R-Idaho). Carolyn W. Grant (R-NC). Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.). Elizabeth Dole (R-NC). Heather Wilson (R-NM). J. Randy Forbes (R-Va.). Jack Kingston (R-Ga.). James V. Hansen (R-Utah). John Cornyn (R-Texas). Kimo Kaloi (R-Hawaii). Marilyn Musgrave (R-Colo.). Mike Ferguson (R-NJ). Mike Simpson (R-Idaho). Ralph Regula (R-Ohio). Ric Keller (R-Fla.). Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.). Ted Stevens (R-Alaska). Thad Cochran (R-Miss.). Dave Camp (R-Mich.). Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.). Tom Young (R-Ala.). Bill Janklow (R-SD). Craig Thomas (R-Wyo.). Spencer Abraham (R-Mich.). William L. Gormley (R-NJ). Bill McCollum (R-Fla.). Bill Redmond (R-NM). Bob Riley (R-Ala.). Claude B. Hutchison Jr. (R-Calif.). Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.). Francis E. Flotron (R-Mo.). George Allen (R-Va.). Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.). Walter B. Jones Jr. (R-NC). Paul Ryan (R-Wis.). Bob Smith (R-Fla.). Joe Pitts (R-PA). Charles H. Taylor (R-NC). Bob Ehrlich (R-Md.). Charles R. Gerow (R-Pa.). Ed Royce (R-Calif.). Elia Vincent Pirozzi (R-Calif.). Jerry Weller (R-Ill.). Mark Emerson (R-Utah). Tom Davis (R-Va.). Van Hilleary (R-Tenn.).

Also: Americans for a Republican Majority, Leadership PAC of Tom DeLay (R-Texas). Republican Majority Fund, Leadership PAC of Don Nickles (R-Okla.). Keep Our Majority PAC, Leadership PAC of Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.). Leadership PAC, Leadership PAC of Michael G. Oxley (R-Ohio). Rely on Your Beliefs, Leadership PAC of Roy Blunt (R-Mo.). Friends of the Big Sky, Leadership PAC of Conrad Burns (R-Mont.). Senate Victory Fund, Leadership PAC of Thad Cochran (R-Miss.). American Liberty PAC, Leadership PAC of Bob Ney (R-Ohio). Battle Born PAC, Leadership PAC of John Ensign (R-Nev.). Fund for a Free Market America, Leadership PAC of Phil Crane (R-Ill.). Team PAC, Leadership PAC of J.D. Hayworth (R-Ariz.). The Republican Party of New Jersey.

Also:

George W. Bush (R)."

The lone Democrat, Pitt writes, is Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, who received $67,000 from Native American tribes represented by Abramoff - not from Abramoff himself - and has since returned the money.

SHOW THAT TO YOUR FRIEND!

Great job, Will, as always.

[CBHagman]

21. Note the specifics in this article from USA Today.

Note in particular which lawmakers have more clear links to Abramoff and which are simply recipients of clients' cash.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-04-abramoff-florida_x.htm?csp=34

"Some Democrats have also said they are returning contributions, including Sens. Dick Durbin of Illinois, Byron Dorgan of North Dakota and Max Baucus of Montana. Most Democratic offices queried Wednesday said there was no need to return contributions because the money didn't come from or wasn't directed by Abramoff, who supported and worked primarily with Republicans in Congress."

Many of the lawmakers giving back money are doing so because they regard it as tainted -- i.e., linked to Abramoff clients in some regard, not directly from Abramoff himself.

Note too that Bush is only giving a portion of the money back.

[Debi]

32. The problem with that article is the problem with the RNSC web site

Receiving $ from Greenberg or a staff member of the firm or one of the Tribes Abramoff worked for should not be considered unethical. Why can't USA Today use some of their fancy editing and separate the two? As long as we use articles that throw good Democrats in with rotten republicans we help muddy the waters.

We need to look at the candidate's reportings before and after Ambramoff was doing his dirty deeds...were these Democrats regularly receiving contributions from those individuals or PACs? Then how does the money they received while Abramoff was around all of a sudden become tainted?

We should be defending our Democrats - doing a little of our own research - and only pointing fingers if something questionable shows up.

I refuse to buy into the GOP's crap!

[MindPilot]

22. If Abramoff gave money to Dems that proves that

Republicans are even dumber than we thought. What sense does it make to bribe a member of the MINORITY party?

[ClassWarrior]

26. How true!!

None of the ILLEGAL contributions went to Dems. None.

Why on EARTH would anyone steal and launder money just to spread it around to both sides?? Freep idiots.

NGU.

[Skittles]

24. reply with this

http://billpress.com/columns.html

[Kber]

25. Some dems are so sleazy, they even hang out with republicans

nice talking point.

:sarcasm:

[oldcoot]

27. Check newsmeat.com

http://www.newsmeat.com/washington_political_donations/Jack_Abramoff.php. Ask your friend how many Democrats are on this list and then tell him to stop emailing you propaganda.

[sendero]

28. On the Diane Rehm show this morning....

.... there was a roundtable discussion with Tony Blankley as a guest. Now Mr. Blankley is as hard right as it gets. Many times, he says stuff that is so out there I cannot even find a thread of the viewpoint to consider real.

But this morning he said, paraphrasing "make no mistake, this is a Republican scandal".

I'm going to take him at his word here, because I'm certain if there was a shred of evidence that it wasn't, he'd be saying so.

[ClassWarrior]

29. It deserves repeating. What IDIOT would steal and launder money...

...only to "spread it around" to both sides?!? Are Republicons REALLY that stupid??

NGU.

[Catherine Vincent]

31. Yes

But they don't care how it appears because they feel they are taking the heat off their party. The phrase "By any means necessary" comes to mind. :eyes: