How Is Kerry Different From Lieberman?

[rucky]

Both voted for IWR/Patriot Act
Both have strong environmental records.
Both have strong anti-gun records.

is it Civil Liberties? healthcare? taxation? Israel? maybe Civil liberties, but I'm not sure about those others.

what makes them so different?

This is an honest question. I know Lieberman is a DU pariah, but I never understood how he was that much different from the other Senators. Are the differences so vast that we can trash one and praise the other? I must be missing something.


edit: Kerry voted against 87B, Lieberman voted for

[girl gone mad]

1. Isn't Lieberman's environmental record..

better than Kerry's?

I know I'll get flamed, but the only difference I see is that Lieberman has the courage of his convictions, the courage to say he supports Bush when he does instead of talking out of both sides of his mouth. Kerry enables Bush and then says he didn't really mean to.

[cavebat2000]

11. I honestly think Kerry is riding a wave

Give it a little time and poeple will see right through Kerry... probably just in time for the General Election. It's very sad he is winning right now, in my opinion.

[blm]

2. Lieberman is more liberal than Dean on civil liberties and other issues.

Kerry's lifetime voting record is closest to Wellstone's of all the candidates.

Lieberman is more pro corporate with fewer regulations whereas Kerry advocated for small businesses with tighter regulations on corporations. Kerry did support loosening up telecom laws in 1996 though.

American Conservative Union Ranking of Dem Canidates
Of course, lower is better. Congressional rankings are 2002, 2001 and lifetime. Numbers indicate the percentage of the time that the canidate voted "conservative". For comparison, Wellstone's rating was 3%


Dennis Kucinich 2002-0%, 2001-20%, Lifetime-13%

John Kerry 2002-20%, 2001-4%, Lifetime-6%

John Edwards 2002-30%, 2001-16%, Lifetime-15%

Dick Gephardt 2002-8%, 2001-13%, Lifetime-12%

Joe Lieberman 2002-20%, 2001-28%, Lifetime-20%

Bob Graham 2002-20%, 2001-16%, Lifetime-18%


http://www.conservative.org/default.asp

[indigo32]

6. BLM

this thread is not about Dean...

[blm]

7. It's about perceptions of candidates and reality.

They are ALL part of the mix.

[indigo32]

9. I'm fully aware of reality

thank you.
and Rucky (who supports Kucinich) was comparing Kerry and Lieberman.

[rucky]

10. Thanks for the info.

:)

[sandnsea]

3. Core beliefs

And Kerry didn't vote for the $87 billion because when something is going wrong, you say so. Which is the difference between Kerry and every other candidate except Kucinich. He didn't play both sides of the war question. He came out clear about the world concensus on Saddam, came out with a cautious approach, and has stuck to his opinion all along. Lieberman did too, except Lieberman has been 100% pro-war. There are vast differences between the two, although Lieberman would probably be a more liberal President than Dean and who knows about Clark. A General's uniform is enough to satisfy Democrats who are afraid to stand up for their real principles I guess.

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. The big difference is the issues that they bring up

You are correct that they have similar voting records. The are also affiliated with the DLC. I would prefer Lieberman as President, but his far to uncharismatic to win a competative race.

[killbotfactory]

5. Kerry is tall, Lieberman is short

Kerry voted to censor the internet with the CDA. Lieberman didn't.

[TexasPatriot]

12. dont forget

Kerry has MOmentum... whereas Lieberman has JOEmentum.

[killbotfactory]

18. Lieberman has a winnabe-Joe

Kerry is full of wind.

[girl gone mad]

23. Kerry vote for the CDA?

yet another strike.

[emulatorloo]

8. I don't believe he voted for 87 Billion

The IWR vote has been hashed over quite a bit on DU. Just to really simplify, Joe is very gung ho about the war. Kerry on the other hand, wanted war to be used as the *last resort*, after all other methods to disarm Saddam had been exhausted. Kerry is against proliferation of weapons, but wants disarmament to be done the right way - weapons inspectors, UN pressure, work w our allies, and war only as last resort.

As to Patriot act, he feels parts of it are good - shutting down sources of terrorist money, increased penalties for terrorists, info sharing between law inforcement. But other parts are bad and Ashcroft has twisted it to use against US citizens. Here's a good speech, not too long.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1201.html

Edit: format

[rucky]

14. Yeah, I think I was wrong about that. Sorry...

that's a pretty big difference, too.

[Clark Can WIN]

13. Lieberman's botox

paralyzed his entire left side


pa dum pum. Get it? Left side?

[rucky]

16. thanks for Cher-ing more botox humor with us

[Clark Can WIN]

22. You bet, there's veritable RIVERS of

botox humor flowing today.B-)

[THUNDER HANDS]

15. from presidentmatch.com ....

I've found these differences...

Kerry opposes Parental Notification for Minors Under 18 for getting an abortion; Lieberman favors it.

Kerry supports Requiring Safety Courses and licensing before Gun Purchases; Lieberman opposes it.

Kerry opposes school vouchers, Lieberman supports them.

Kerry favors Mandatory Labor/Environment Standards in Trade Agreements; Lieberman opposes them.

There might be more, but Lieberman didn't answer a lot of this site's questions.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Kerry is taller

:eyes:

[Jim Sagle]

21. And he has a much longer face.

[girl gone mad]

24. Don't forget Kerry wants to appoint James Baker..

special envoy to the Middle East. Yes, that ^^ Jim Baker.

[TucsonGreen]

19. Defense of Marriage Act

For one thing, Kerry voted against the "Defense of Marriage Act" while Lieberman (and Wellstone for that matter) voted for it. That's pretty important to me, since almost every Democrat, including President Clinton, abandoned the gay community while Kerry stood by it.

Of course, I still think Bush will thrash him...

[meow mix]

20. "Twins 2 - the Fury" starring kerry and lieberman (as the Twins)

kerry likes huge hairdo's.. and botox

while lieberman seems entirely comfortable just being natural,
so he does not share that kind of psychosis with kerry.

but yes they do seem like twins.

[SadEagle]

25. Lieberman is an principled, brave person, who stands by his opinions.

.. even when not popular; see how he keeps pushing his perspective in primaries when it's deeply out of touch w/the party? Of course, Lieberman is also an annoying moralizer that would fracture our base if nominated.

[ldoolin]

26. No difference

Kerry's voting record in the Senate is very nearly identical to Lieberman's.

Both voted for NAFTA
Both voted for the WTO
Both voted for No Child Left Behind
Both voted for the Patriot Act
Both voted for the IWR
Both voted for the Homeland Security Act
Both voted for both of the Clinton-era Welfare Reform acts
Both voted for Brady and the assault weapons ban
Both voted for the Hatch Juvenile Justice Act
Both voted for the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
Both voted twice during the 90s to vastly expand the death penalty (1994 Crime Act and 1995 Antiterrorism & Effective Death Penalty Act)

I believe Lieberman actually voted against the Communications Decency Act while Kerry voted for it. That makes Lieberman slightly more of a liberal than Kerry.

On edit: Kerry voted for a national ID card bill in 1994 and Lieberman voted against it. A national ID card!! That makes Lieberman MUCH more of a liberal than Kerry.

[ldoolin]

27. More on Kerry's anti-ACLU voting record

http://milwaukee.indymedia.org/en/2004/01/200177.shtml

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. One is Jewish,

and one is a Christian.