Kerry's lead takes the wind out of my sails...

[Indiana_Dem]

in the primary race. I don't know why. I've been undecided. I appreciate alot of his platform and agree with his proposals for education, healthcare and the environment.

I was almost obsessive about trying to figure out who I wanted to vote for in the primaries. I wanted to make the right choice. Now it seems that after Iowa and New Hampshire, everybody is just jumping on the Kerry bandwagon albeit somewhat reluctantly for some. Nonetheless, it's happening and it seems as the race has become stale and boring to me.

The Dean movement has been inspiring as I think it's not so much about him as it is the people who support(ed) him. It's like the voice of the Dean movement has been silenced and now we are back to looking at and encouraged with choosing the determined favorite. Even if the Dean movement is silenced, I know that at least there are enough people out there like me who want real change and are tired of business as usual.

I've pondered Kucinich, Clark, Edwards, too, but Dean's campaign was the only one with the money and the fervor needed to pull in more new voters and involvement. His campaign brought the spice back into the great debate.

Now the excitement and fresh hope is pretty much deflated unless something miraculous happens.

If Kerry is the nominee, I will vote for Kerry in the general elections but I will feel as if I've been pulled into voting for him not because I wholeheartedly chose him. I wanted this year to be a year where I finally had someone I thought could change the tide. Looks like it won't be happening.

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Kerry takes the wind out of many sails

I don't see much passion for him on DU.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. yeah, sorry about that

we didn't mean to win. :)

[girl gone mad]

4. You haven't won yet.

Making the same misttake George Bush Sr. made against Reagan, I see.

[Dookus]

5. LOL...

I'm cracking up here all the recent posts insinuating that Kerry won for reasons other than getting the most votes.

[ibegurpard]

6. you seriously underestimate how much animosity there is towards Kerry

I kid you not...for the first time in 15 years I am actually considering not voting for the Democratic nominee.

[THUNDER HANDS]

11. you picked a perfect year to do it

I mean, it's not like there's anything at stake in this election, right?

:eyes:

[ibegurpard]

13. Too bad Terry McAuliffe, Al From, Bill Clinton and everyone else

pulling the strings in the Democratic Party don't seem to share your point of view.

[Indiana_Dem]

24. Yeah I know, that's what scares me.

[Gman]

45. Clinton all but endorsed Kerry yesterday

[girl gone mad]

20. There's something at stake..

in electing a Democrat who could potentially set the pary back another ten years.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

25. Uh. How?

Because he is a liberal?

[polpilot]

46. What party? The pro-war democratic party? The pro-war DLC group?

Dean '04...

[meow mix]

29. oops, i thought it was a perfect year because..

kerry will blow it either way ---> unelectable.
say hi to Mondale2004

[Dookus]

12. and

YOU seriously underestimate how much animosity there is towards Dean.

[ibegurpard]

21. I could care less if it's Dean or someone else.

What ENRAGES me is that he proved that the Democrats COULD get money and support OUTSIDE of having to whore themselves to big money and corporations and the party establishment SHAT on him for it and instead went with someone who would toe the line for them. If someone else came along who authentically WANTED to engage the people whose policies it truly affects in the Democratic Party and WAS able to authentically convey that feeling to me I would support him or her unreservedly. Kerry is a phony.

[Dookus]

34. and I believe

Dean is a phony. So what?

Dean is NOT the liberal grassroots savior of the Democratic party. He never was. He's a very centrist, entrenched politician, just like most of the others.

I'm not saying this just to bash Dean. I'm trying to point out that your opposition to Kerry is matched by my opposition to Dean. They're both valid opinions - the "nobody but Dean" threat doesn't mean much to me, because I don't think Dean supporters will oppose the eventual nominee in any great numbers - certainly not in any greater numbers than the supporters of other candidates.

[Faygo Kid]

17. Your timing couldn't be worse

My God, I hope that, if Dean does not win the nomination, the Dean supporters (and I count myself in that group) will wake up and smell the coffee. This is no time for feeling sorry for yourselves. Have you ever seen anything like this administration? You want Bush to appoint the next Supreme Court? I don't understand the almost cult-like attraction to Dean, to the exclusion of any other candidates. This is something I haven't seen since working for McCarthy in 1968. Dean's ideas have prevailed; the Dems (unless Daschle has his way) will no longer sit idly back and be beaten on by the BushBots. This is the legacy of your support for Howard Dean? That you will abandon his fight against Bush? What are you thinking?

[ibegurpard]

30. See my post above

I'm not feeling sorry for myself because Dean could potentially be out of it. I'm LIVID that the party has fucked over someone who was trying to engage PUBLIC support and fundraising in favor of somone who won't endanger those who think the party should continue to whore for corporate and big money. They won't stand up for YOU if it comes down to a choice between who funds them and what is the best public policy. Kerry has already proved that.

[krkaufman]

33. First time ever here....

I've always voted Dem across the board, but seeing how the Dem establishment has eliminated the people's participation in the process, I'm tempted to take the Nader approach this year, as well.

[oasis]

37. Bill Clinton is a big wheel in the "Dem establishment" that you claim has

"eliminated the people's participation in the process". Bill and Hillary are behind Clark's candidacy.

[NNN0LHI]

41. How do I know you EVER voted for the Democratic nominee?

Because you say so? Go sell your bullshit elsewhere. I ain't buying.

Don

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. It was worse for Dean

believe me.

[NNN0LHI]

40. How do I know you EVER voted for the Democratic nominee?

Because you say so? Go sell your bullshit elsewhere. I ain't buying.

Don

[krkaufman]

31. Every arrogant statement like that...

Every arrogant statement like that improves the chances that your candidate will get his ass kicked.

Keep it up; drive potential supporters away.

[KFC]

10. You will see a hell of a lot of passion for Kerry in the general election

A lot of what you call passion is just short-term anti-Kerry ranting by sore losers.

They will all come around in time.

[ibegurpard]

32. Yup. Bury your head in the sand.

eom

[bain_sidhe]

38. Not from me.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Oh, and one more thing: If your "prediction" that Kerry will win the nomination comes true (things change, and it's not a sure thing)... yes, it's true that nobody likes poor losers. But everybody hates poor winners.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. Good that means he just might win

[girl gone mad]

3. Clark has enough..

money and support to stay in it for a while.

[Faygo Kid]

7. This wasn't the year.

Very good candidates all around, but this year just isn't the time for idealism. Defeat Bush, or lose our nation. It's that simple. I thank God for Howard Dean; he woke the Dems up from the debacle of the election in 2002. He probably won't be the nominee, and many here will have their hearts broken by that, but we have never had a more radically evil president in our history than George W. Bush. Too much at stake. A deep sigh for you, then let's roll up our sleeves.

[indigo32]

18. Problem is..

I am no more convinced now, than I ever have been, that Kerry can win.
Not all of us are this starry eyed idealists Dean supporters are painted as. I simply don't believe Kerry can win. Do I know for sure Dean could win against Bush? No I don't. But I just have this sinking feeling every time I think of Kerry against Bush... preciselyl because I KNOW how important this election is.

[Indiana_Dem]

22. Oh I agree with what you're saying!

I wasn't even sure I was going to vote Dean in the primaries but his message has been a wakeup call and he has been the one to present facts. I don't really think I would even like him as a person as his brashness is a turn off to me. But--his ideas are exactly on target to what I think. If anything I just appreciated the movement and exhileration of the supporters! I admired this. I have had a lot of issues with him regarding his sealed files and I didn't really like his healthcare plan. I did like his views on making the deficit an important issue. I valued his glance at LONG-term goals rather than short-term goals like all the rest of the candidates are focusing on now.

I also agree with you wholeheartedly about this administration. That is why I will give Kerry my vote. I want to give him a chance. There is too much at stake.

[TucsonGreen]

39. How Come Centrist Democrats Always Say That?

"this year just isn't the time for idealism"

It wasn't 1992. It wasn't 2000. It wasn't 2002. And now it's not this year? When WILL be the year when the Democratic Party decides to actually stand up for their ideals instead of being corporate whores?

Let me know. Then I'll come back. In the meantime, me and the Green Party will be working on what used to be called the "Democratic Agenda."

[janx]

53. It is not out of idealism that I support Dean.

.

[displacedtexan]

8. Every Dean supporter should run for office!

The enthusiasm and sincere heart of dean supporters is needed in our elected offices. Some ideas:
Dem party precinct delegate
County Commissioner
School Board
City Council
State Rep and/or Senate

I will support the DEM on any ticket.

[blm]

9. Kerry's supporters are passionate and careful.

We try not to miscalculate the electorate and understand that internet message boards are not reflective of the American people.

My passion for Kerry is as strong as the most passionate Dean supporter.

[flpoljunkie]

43. Kerry won broad support across all categories in both Iowa & New Hampshire

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/19/politics/main594108.shtml

Demographically, Kerry’s lead came from many sources. The oldest caucus attendees, those above 65 years of age, supported Kerry, as did those with less than a college education. Despite much talk of Dean’s popularity with young voters, Kerry also won the most support among 17-to-29-year-olds – 35 percent to Dean’s 25 percent. Liberal voters went for Kerry with 33 percent giving 25 percent support to Edwards, and 24 percent support to Dean. Moderate and conservative voters preferred Kerry by larger margins.

Surprisingly, Kerry also won the most support among union households, a likely factor in Gephardt’s poor finish. Kerry received 29 percent of their support, compared to only 22 percent for Gephardt. Edwards also won 22 percent of union household support, and Dean received 19 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/29/politics/campaign/29SURV.html?pagewanted=all

January 29, 2004

THE VOTERS

Kerry Support Found Across Wide Range of Democrats

By DAVID E. ROSENBAUM and JANET ELDER

MANCHESTER, N.H., Jan. 28 — For two weeks in a row, Senator John Kerry has demonstrated broad support among Democratic voters across economic, ideological and demographic lines.

Surveys of voters entering the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 19 and leaving polling places in New Hampshire on Tuesday showed that Mr. Kerry did better than his rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination in practically every voter category: among men, women, the young, the old, Catholics, Protestants, rich, poor, those with advanced degrees, those with only a high school diploma, voters who consider themselves fairly liberal and those who say they are moderate or conservative.

Even when his opponents made specific appeals to voter groups — as Howard Dean did with those under 30 and those who opposed the Iraq war, for example — they were generally unable to do any better than Mr. Kerry, and sometimes did worse.

In New Hampshire, Democrats from union households and those with veterans in the family favored Mr. Kerry, the junior senator from neighboring Massachusetts. So did voters who have a gun in their homes.

______________________

John Kerry obviously has generated excitement across all categories of voters, or they would have turned out and voted for him in such great numbers.

[polpilot]

51. & support the DLC establishment candidate and are opposed 2 change.

Dean '04...

[bigwillq]

14. Excellent post

I've been following Dean for about a year now. I'm new to the whole political "game" and when I saw Dean for the first time, I was impressed. He was and still is the one candidate who excites me. He made me want to pay attention to the whole political process and b/c of his efforts I've been following politics and social issues very closely. I'm an addict of all the news shows and have been reading up about political issues like crazy.

I agree that some people, the media, and the public have jumped on Kerry's wagon. I will vote for JK or any of the DEMS in the GE but I still have faith in Dean. I do feel however that his campaign is in serious trouble both with organization and money.

I'm saddened by the last few weeks developments but I will always owe Dean a great deal for opening my eyes and helping learn how this system works.

[Mz Pip]

15. I guess I was more surprised

than anything else. Two weeks ago this was supposed to be a Dean coronation. Kerry's campaign seemed to be stalled.

Since I live in CA I have never had the chance to help change the tide. It always seems to be decided before it gets to us.

Oh, well. It's been interesting.

MzPip
:dem:

[Exgeneral]

16. I know how you feel

The East Coast liberal establishment just doesn't want to give it up.

They think Clark is a threat, and claim that he made a "major gaffe" by supporting Michael Moores commentary that Bush was a deserter?

How's THAT for media spin?

I'm starting to see the Dean people's point.

[Eurobabe]

23. My sentiments exactly

I don't WANT an insider this year. I want someone fresh, optimistic, and inspiring who can do things differently. This is why I choose to remain independent. I will never join the DNC, and this makes my resolve even more firm. We have no voice in this process, other than our lowly primary vote. Those whose primaries are beyond the March 2nd date, might not have any influence at all.

I will be drafting a nasty letter to the DNC, 1)their ramrodding the primary process to front-load this race was poor judgment 2) something seriously needs to change having IA and NH *decide* who our nominee will be--wins giving them the big mo. We need a rotating first primary, and we need to stop having these candidates spend a year or more knowing every flipping voter in the Granite State. While I have enjoyed my time up in NH this fall/winter, and I respect the level of scrutiny the NHites give the candidates, the rest of us poor slobs get grossly short-changed when he/she who would be president blows though our state in a week. To elect a president on the basis of who has the best TV ad is sick, everyone deserves a chance to see these people in town hall events.

I am also appalled at the way the media has marginalized Clark, Kucinich, and Sharpton because they've somehow decided that none are viable candidates, for whatever reasons. And even though I did not support Dean, what the media did to him was atrocious.

[slinkerwink]

26. same here too......

[Cheswick2.0]

27. It ain't over

Come join us at Deanforamerica.com

[Gman]

28. This is a lesson for the Dean supporters

in that the "real Democratic Party" is not just the Dean supporters and what they think the party is. The Party is millions of people with diverse views and they don't necessarily have the same issues and priorities as the Deanites.

Its starting to look like the party consensus is going to be Kerry.

[pacifictiger]

36. 10 months is an eternity

in a presidential campaign. Look what happened in only 1 month. I think the real disappointment here is that so people are still being hypnotized by the media mantra of "electability" and "image." Thats the smoke and mirror nonsense that has been going on in washington for too many years! Bush uses it with remarkable abandon. If you want your vote to matter, and care at all for this country, THINK for a change and if you are going to pick a nominee, pick one for substance, not just what someone else tells you is the flavor of the day. I find it interesting that around 80% of Dean voters voted because of issues and message, while the majority of Kerry voters voted on electabilty image over issues. With support coming from such fickle supporters like this, the winds of media focus could just as easily blow in a different direction within 6 months.

[George_Bonanza]

42. "I think it's not so much about him as it is the people who support him"

Are those people going to be in the White House? Is Dean going to be obligated to those people once he's in the White House? A resounding no. That's what I do not like about the Dean campaign. The campaign is about the campaign, and how wonderful it is. A campaign is all about schticks, glitziness, and show. Most people prefer history and substance.

[bbmykel]

48. You miss the point I think

You ask "Is Dean going to be obligated to those people once he's in the White House?" and the answer is YES. He will be olbigated to the people rather than the usual $2k donors.

That is not to say that others that take money from the wealthy will sell policy as flagrantly as the current administration, just that it would have been interesting to have a successful candidate who raised money at the grassroots level. It could still happen I suppose, but if it doesn't at least let us mourn the loss of this ideal.

[Nicholas_J]

52. From Dean's past record and from Vermonters themselves

Dean will not be accountable oncve he has won, and that he has a very clear record of running on Democratic talk, but clearly reverts to the opposite once elected, and begins to immediately support the spevial interest corporations where he heart lies:

Howard Dean: the Progressive Anti-War Candidate?
Some Vermonters Give Their Views


Donna:

I know that a lot of you are going to vote for Dean -- he talks a good game; he can be charismatic and charming. But I'm warning you. This man will tell you what you want to hear, or at least tell you something that has some little kernel of something that you can interpret as support for the things that are important to you. But when the time comes to stand up and lead on the issue, to take on the money interests and backsliders in his own party, that stiff little spine will turn into a slinky.


http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs08292003.html


Perspective on Dean from a Vermont Sierra Club Activist

The Vermont Chapter always decided against endorsing Howard Dean for Governor. (That
counts 4 or 5 election cycles)

Although he developed a fairly strong record on land conservation, in spite of failing to support some key land programs, he made himself a dismal record on other environmental issues. He strongly supported everything the utilities and ski areas ever asked him to do. He supported mega-purchase from Hydro Quebec, refusing to even consider any alternative or the adverse impacts on our state’s economy. (Both he and the utilities spent the next decade complaining about the high prices and trying to get out of the contracts, as though they were someone else’s evil doings.)

During a major battle over mwater/sprawl legislation, he claimed that water from those polluted streams was clean enough to drink. I wouldn’t want this guy as my doctor, thank you. He did offer nominal,
initial support to a renewables bill two years ago, but when push came to shove he refused to lift a finger in support. He repeatedly had his secretaries and commissioners run various collaborative policy-making groups, only to have the facts emerge later that the
“fix was in” from the start with his road-building, air polluting, power producing campaign donors.

His record is one of opposing just about everything the environmental
lobby supported.He was always there with the lip service as long as there was actually nothing on the table. He has developed a reputation for saying what his audience wants to hear, then doing whatever suits him later.


http://www.thomasleavitt.org/personal/blog/index.php?p=311&c=1

What has most amazed me about the support for Dean is that it is based simply on people beleiving that Dean actually has done the things he claims, while there is absolutely no evidence of any kind that he has ever fought for any issue other than cutting social programs in order to balance budgets. This is the only thing that Dean has ever fought hard for.

He never fought to gay rights as Governor and as Lt Governor opposed a gay civil rights bill.


Lieutenant Governor: Howard Dean would not support a civil rights bill "aimed specifically at any given group" but he would include lesbian/gay civil rights protection in a broader bill. He did support the HTLV-III anti-discrimination bill sponsored by Micque Glitmen last year. He would support state funding for education and services to people with AIDS and people in high-risk groups. He would support re-instituting the State Human Rights Commission. He was ambivalent about appointing a liaison simply because he wasn't sure if it was necessary because of numerous "friends and supporters" in the gay community.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/1986/11nov1986/

He never fought for universal health care in Vermont, but threatened to veto legislation that gave universal health care if it considered single payer options.

Vermont
In April 1992 Vermont passed the Vermont Health Care Act of 1992 to ensure universal coverage for state citizens, control healthcare costs via a global budget, implement insurance community rating, reform medical malpractice laws, and place the state's healthcare under one state authority. The legislation did not specify how the state would pay for and achieve universal coverage. This led to development of two state proposals--one backed by a group of 55 legislators for a single-payer plan and one pushed by the governor for an employer mandate.

Although the single-payer plan was not brought to the floor for a vote during the current 1994 session, many predicted it would have been defeated. Additionally, Gov. Howard Dean, MD, had promised to veto it if passed.

http://www.chausa.org/PUBS/PUBSART.ASP?ISSUE=HP9410&ARTICLE=L


There is literally no record of any kind of Dean having ever fought in any way shape or form for anything that would benefit a single citizend, but plenty of evidence that he aalways fought hard for big business and special interests.

[mitchum]

44. Join the ever dwindling crowd

Kerry 2004

ABB

[rucky]

47. Beating Bush is good enough for me

and I get to vote for a once-in-a-lifetime candidate in the primary.

win-win

[fiorello]

49. Wildly enthusiastic about Kerry

I just want you to know that SOMEONE is. It's not "electability" or "settling". It's because Kerry organized Vietnam Vets Against the War... because he's as progressive as any serious contender... and because he's got a record that says he's qualified. We just had four years of seeing how badly a REALLY REALLY DUMB president can screw things up. It's time to bring in someone with a sense of decency!

I doubt there would be a difference between a Kerry and a Dean administration (or an Edwards or Clark administration), just style. Dean spoke up for "us" when we needed him - Kerry didn't. But Kerry got busloads of veterans out campaigning for him - that helped him win Iowa - and that's bringing in NEW people. I want to see him bring the same people into the party and run Bush out of town!

[emulatorloo]

50. Hello Sanfro - Welcome to DU

:hi:

[GalleryGod]

55. Veterans Will Rise-Up like no other time in America.

" we're older...and a little bit greyer,now..BUT we still know how to FIGHT for America"
John F. Kerry
1/27/04

[jsw_81]

54. That's funny, because I'm THRILLED about John Kerry's progress

This guy is a decorated war hero AND a former prosecutor AND a four-term U.S. Senator AND he has excellent foreign policy credentials AND he's tall and handsome and brilliant.

I can't wait for the Bush-Kerry contest; it's going to be awesome and on November 2 we really are going to send Bush back to Texas.