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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:51 AM
Original message
Ask the nominee how he would have ruled in the case of Bush v. Gore
The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=47939

Posted 01/09/2006 @ 11:39am
Senators Sould Press Alito on Bush v. Gore

<<snip>>

Alito will lie to the committee, intentionally and repeatedly.

In keeping with the standard set by all recent high court nominees, he will treat the hearings, and by extension the American people, who the confirmation process is intended to serve, with utter and complete contempt.

Alito will be asked direct questions and he will claim that he cannot answer them for two reasons.

First, in order to avoid broad questions about his legal philosophy, he will claim that he is not able to comment on cases that might come before the court. This is a deliberate dodge, designed not to protect Alito's ability to judge impartially but to avoid revealing whether his ideas are within the mainstream of constitutional interpretation and judicial responsibility.

Second, despite the fact that his proponents would have the Senate and the American people believe that he is a brilliant man with broad executive branch and judicial experience, Alito will claim that he has not seriously considered fundamental questions of law, politics and public policy. This, too, is a deliberate dodge, designed to prevent an examination of how he approaches issues.

<<snip>>

As members of the Judiciary Committee approach what should be their most solemn duty--since they are being called upon to accept or reject a nominee who could serve on the high court long after they have left politics--senators of both parties should be looking for a way to crack the facade of deceit and disrespect that Alito will erect.

Here's one suggestion for how to do that:

Ask the nominee how he would have ruled in the case of Bush v. Gore. Does he agree that the court was right to intervene, for the first time in history, to stop the counting of the ballots that could have determined the result of a presidential contest? Or does he believe, as University of Virginia professor and Supreme Court scholar A.E. Howard has suggested, "Prudence would call for letting the political process run its course"?

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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wish they would nominated n/t
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good one!
And if he vacillates on the Bush v Gore decision, he can then be CLOBBERED with follow-up questions about States' rights -- you know how those true Conservatives HATE to hear anyone supporting the idea of the federal gov't stomping on States' rights ...
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. which they did...
in Bush vs. Gore
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. And in the Schiavo intervention (EOM)
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wouldn't he try to weasle out somehow...
..like saying "I have no idea what type of evidence the justices were privy to, so it's impossible for me to answer that question"

I dunno..
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. sure he would...
but they could press him on that one.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. It wasn't an 'evidence' case ...
... it was a case of facts. The question before the SC was one of interpretation of electoral law, in a case that had no precedent to be looked to for guidance.

I'm sure he'd try to squirm out of answering the question on other grounds, but there was no 'evidence' to be weighed in this case, so that excuse would not be an option here.
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. I think that is a fair question
I hope that they ask that. K&R
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. I Think, Today, One of the Senators Had Asked Scalito...
...what his opinion was, after he clearly explained that since a case like this was not likely to come before SCOTUS again (it was a one-time deal for Bush only, and would set no precedent, remember?).

Scalito was very, very evasive; trying to argue that he couldn't give any opinion since he "hadn't read the entire case", and felt he wasn't informed enough to give any opinion.

Of course, this junior Senator (Democratic Senator Kuhl, or Cohl, or something like that--he's new) chuckled and repeated his question in various ways, but Scalito continued to "filibuster" that question with various excuses about not having read the entire file...blah-blah-blah.

I'm wondering if our Democratic Senators are reading DU!
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh yeah....he danced on that one also.
He talks alot about nothing. One of his reasons for not answering the question was that he never really thought about or considered the merits of the case. Give me a break.

I remember I was in a family law dispute at the time. I was in and out of court. I remember hearing attorneys at the judge's bench talking excitedly about the case. There wasn't a lawyer or judge in this country that didn't play Supreme Court Justice with this case.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. LOL... I thought the same thing!! They got that question off of HERE!!
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. I am on Ted Kennedy's mailing list
And he solicits questions from the general public. If you have anything else you want to ask let me know.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent question, and one that must be asked and responded to
Let's see how Alito subverts "strict constructionism" for crass political expediency, as all conservatives always do.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ask him if he thinks Bush* had legal standing.
No attorney I have ever talked with has agreed with the Extreme court on their decision but not a single one even accept that Bush* should have been granted standing as he was no more harmed than Gore. The votes had not been counted or certified so neither candidate could have suffered harm. the only person/s to actually suffer were the voters themselves....
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. good point n/t
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. And how
"the only person/s to actually suffer were the voters themselves...."

and a few million Iraqis.
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TominDC Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. Is Alito's Judicial Philosophy a Threat to Social Security & Medicare?
I am going to post this in several places, just in case anyone out there in the blogosphere finds it useful in making a case against Alito. I spent just a few hours on the research, so if you find this useful/convincing at all, please double-check it on your own, and supplement it with your own rearch. This is just meant to raise some important issues, etc.


Does Alito's Originalist Judicial Philosophy Threaten the Future of Social Security & Medicare?

Justice Scalia, Justice Thomas, Judge Bork and others have long argued that the Constitution should be interpreted based on how its text was originally understood at the time such text was ratified. Both among themselves and among various other originalists, they disagree about the proper role of stare decisis, in particular about to what degree stare decisis sets limits for the Court when the original meaning of Constitutional text in question conflicts with long-held doctrine. For example, Scalia and Thomas both agree that the current understanding of the commerce clause is inconsistent with the clause’s original meaning, as generally understood at the time of ratification. At a minimum, both are willing to set new limits on Congressional power that are more consistent with their originalist understanding of the commerce clause, even if such limits depart from the Court’s precedent’s to some degree. Thomas is generally willing to go much farther, and largely reject the use of stare decisis altogether, when it conflicts with the proper original understanding, whereas Scalia calls himself a “faint-hearted originalist” who sees stare decisis as a pragmatic exception to his originalist philosophy.(1)

Depending on the future composition of the Court, and whether and to what degree new Justices joining the Court share the originalist views of Thomas or Scalia, the Court may set significant new limits on Congressional power to regulate under the commerce clause, with radical policy implications. This much is clear. What is less obvious is that the Court, if controlled by a Thomas-Scalia led radical originalist block (possibly including Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito – if the latter is confirmed), might also create sharp new limits on the power of Congress to spend.

In recent years, there have been a large number of law review articles and books written on how various provisions of the Constitution were originally understood at the time of ratification. Most of these articles are written by conservative law school professors, and most have reached the conclusion that the current Court view on the Constitutional provision in question is sharply inconsistent with the provision’s original meaning. One particular area of focus, especially within the last few years, has been on the Spending Clause,(2) which has been interpreted by the Court for many years to mean Congress has broad power to spend on behalf of the general welfare, as Congress understands it.(3) Several originalist scholars have critiqued this view and argued that the Spending Clause in fact gives Congress no additional powers to spend, but rather acts as limit on Congressional power to spend when it exercising its otherwise enumerated powers.(4) The implications of at least some of this scholarship is that Congress cannot spend money on any program that is not specifically authorized under some other section of the Constitution, such as post offices, armies, navies, or protecting patents and copyrights. If a majority of the Court accepted this view of the spending clause, then the Court could potentially prohibit Congress from spending on a wide range of areas, including, for example, on the rebuilding of New Orleans.(5)

How would this limitation affect government programs as Social Security and Medicare? In the 1937 case Helvering v. Davis, the Supreme Court upheld the Social Security Act as within the "penumbra" of the term “general welfare” within the Spending Clause.(6) If the Court were to follow the originalist view on the Spending Clause, it could very well reject its precedent in Helvering and declare Social Security unconstitutional, finding the program is neither authorized under the commerce clause nor any other text of the Constitution. Presumably, the Court could make a similar finding regarding Medicare. Would any originalist seriously argue that the Constitution, as it was understood at the time of ratification, authorized programs like Social Security and Medicare? If the Court ever includes a majority of Justices who follow the views of Justice Thomas, it is difficult to see how the Court could do anything but strike down the Social Security and Medicare Acts, given Thomas’s view on stare decisis. Has Judge Alito given any indication that he would take a different approach from Justice Thomas?

End Notes:

(1)Antonin Scalia, A Matter of Interpretation (1997) p. 140.

(2) Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States…”

(3) See See Robert G. Natelson, THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE AND THE PUBLIC TRUST: AN ESSAY IN ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING, University of Kansas Law Review, November, 2003, p. 4 (“The General Welfare Clause is one of the two principal constitutional pillars supporting the modern federal welfare state -the other being the Commerce Clause. While the Commerce Clause supports most unfunded federal regulation, the General Welfare Clause is said to include an implied spending power used to justify federal spending programs and the regulatory conditions attached to them. For that reason, the General Welfare Clause sometimes is called the Spending Clause.”); see also United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 64-66 (1936 South Dakota v. Dole, 483 U.S. 203, 206-07 (1987), Oklahoma v. Civil Service Commission, 330 U.S. 127, 144 (1947). Helvering v. Davis, 301 U.S. 619, 640 (1937), and Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548, 586-87 (1937).

(4) See Robert G. Natelson, THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE AND THE PUBLIC TRUST: AN ESSAY IN ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING, University of Kansas Law Review, November, 2003, pp. 54-55. “The current Supreme Court interpretation, the Hamilton-Story view, stands the original meaning of the General Welfare Clause on its head. The Clause was not a qualified grant of spending authority, as Hamilton and Story claimed. Nor did it merely point to other powers, as Story understood Madison to have said. On the contrary, the General Welfare Clause was an unqualified denial of spending authority. It did not add to federal powers; it subtracted from them.

The General Welfare Clause was designed as a trust-style rule denying Congress authority to levy taxes for any but general, national purposes. Because the Clause prevented Congress from using tax revenue for local or special interest purposes, the Clause indirectly qualified the appropriation power. Even if some enumerated power could be enlisted to support the appropriation, federal tax money was not to be used for the private benefit of a museum-however worthy-in Savannah, nor an artist-however struggling-in New York.”) (emphasis added). See also, Jeffrey Renz, WHAT SPENDING CLAUSE? (OR THE PRESIDENT'S PARAMOUR): AN EXAMINATION OF THE VIEWS OF HAMILTON, MADISON, AND STORY ON ARTICLE I, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 1 OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, John Marshall Law Review, Fall, 1999, p. 142-3 (“Thus, neither Madison nor Story nor Hamilton were fully correct in their measurement of the General Welfare Clause. The clause is not a mere introduction to the enumerated powers that follow. Neither is it a grant of power to spend. It cannot be a spending power without expanding or eliminating the limitations on power expressed in the clauses that follow it. The General Welfare Clause is a nullity when considered solely against Congress' enumerated powers. But when considered against the powers granted to the other branches, it makes sense as an indirect check on the Executive.”); John C. Eastman, RESTORING THE "GENERAL" TO THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE, Chapman Law Review, Spring 2001. (“For the first eighty-five years of our nation's history, under both the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution, the language of "general welfare" was viewed as a limitation on the powers of Congress, not as a grant of plenary power. If the Court would re-assert that limitation as it has reasserted the original limitations of the commerce clause, the major federalism decisions of the past decade would be anything but much ado about nothing.”)

(5) Eastman, supra at 79 (“And the Fourth Congress did not even believe it had the power to provide relief to the citizens of Savannah, Georgia after a devastating fire destroyed the entire city.”) Eastman argues that the original understanding of the words “general welfare” in the Spending Clause was to limit Congressional spending, even that which was otherwise authorized by other text of the Constitution, only to purposes that supported the United States in general, rather than in particular parochial interests. Among his arguments supporting this view is that early Congresses believed they did not have the power to fund particular roads and other infrastructure projects within a state or to rebuild after a fire. Presumably, that was because the early Congress believed it had no independent power, under the Constitution, to rebuild after a disaster such as a major fire.

(6) Helvering v. Davis, 301 U.S. 619 (1937), at 640.

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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. Good questions. Thanks for the research and insight into this line
of thinking. Hopefully someone is paying attention.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Could we deftly interject the 15,000 extra Gore over-votes?
The question would not change his nomination lest he bobble it by making some extraordinary assertion, but the press might be most interesting for this less-than-well-covered tidbit that Gore would have won on a state-wide recount.
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. no reason to ask
we all know how he would have voted. Lying bag of water has lost the meaning of the constitution somewhere in the dim past. It's hard to remember honest law when your courted by GWBushit, patted on the back by rich and influential criminals and paid to stomp on the little guy.
Fucking law is for rich people now days. Us little people have justice only in memory.
Down with this turd, he's only in it for glory and monkey man. Hope someone craps on his parade.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. i couldn't...
have said it better myself.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kohl: "was the Supreme Court correct in taking this case (bush v. Gore)?"
Alito: could come up in future cases ... i really don't know ... i haven't had cases like this and haven't had time to study the issue ...
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. what a...
chickenshit!!
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. not chicken shit, duck shit ...
he sure ducked that question ... i hope the Dems raise the issue again ...

"i don't know" is not much of an answer from a Supreme Court nominee when the issue of stealing Presidential elections is being discussed ...
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. yeah...
"could come up in future cases ... i really don't know ... i haven't had cases like this and haven't had time to study the issue ..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
could come up in future cases- maybe in 100 years
i haven't had cases like this and haven't had time to study the issue- everybody has an opinion on that.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. The question that No One will dare to ask...and that's very sad.........
If someone does...please post it. I've given up...I know Alito will be confirmed and even if he's "fillibustered."
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PegDAC Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. I heard a little of what Scarelito said.
A lot of the time he acted like the questions were in Icelandic; at least once he resorted to "I don't recall".

:eyes: :rofl:
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. typical n/t
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. Great question!!
Should we call or e-mail them to suggest it??
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. Ask Kennedy to ask this very question!
Or any other question you have

www.tedkennedy.com/askalito
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. Here's the transcript of his "answer":
KOHL: Last question.

Judge Alito, I understand that you're reluctant to comment on cases that you would likely have coming before you in the future, but I'd like to ask you about a case that the Supreme Court certainly will never see again: 2000 presidential election contest between President Bush, Vice President Gore.

KOHL: Many commentators see the Bush v. Gore decision as an example of judicial activism, an example of the judiciary improperly injecting itself into a political dispute.

Indeed it appears to many of us who've looked at your record that Bush v. Gore seems contrary to so many of the principles that you stand for, that the president has said you stand for when making your nomination: talking about judicial restraint, not legislating from the bench and, of course, respecting the rights of the states.

So, Judge Alito, I'd like to ask you: Was the Supreme Court correct to take this case in the first place?

ALITO: Well, Senator, I think you're probably right, and I hope you're right, that, that sort of issue doesn't come before the Supreme Court again.

Some of the equal protection ground that the majority relied on in Bush v. Gore does involve principles that could come up in future elections and in future cases.

As to that particular case, my answer has to be, I really don't know. I have not studied it in the way I would study a case that comes before me as a judge. And I would have to go through the whole judicial process.

KOHL: That was a huge, huge case.

And I would like to hope and I would bet that you thought about it an awful lot, because you are who you are. And I would like for you to give an opinion from the convictions of your heart.

KOHL: As a person who's very restrained with respect to judicial activism, this being a case of extreme judicial activism, were they correct in taking this case, in your opinion?

ALITO: Well, there's the issue of whether they should take it and the issue of how it should be decided.

And, Senator, my honest answer is I have not studied it in the way that I would study the issue if it were to come before me as a judge.

And that would require putting out of my mind any personal thoughts that I had on the matter and listening to all of the arguments and reading the briefs and thinking about it in the way that I do when I decide legal issues that are before me as a judge.

And that's the best answer I can give you to that question.

It was obviously a very important and difficult and controversial case. And in a situation like that, the obligation of a judge all the more is to be restrained and is to go through the judicial decision- making process and only at the end of that reach a conclusion about the issue.

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-11-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
32. alito would give the Ted Olsen shuffle or the James A. Baker III
Edited on Wed Jan-11-06 09:36 PM by 0007
ol' Razzle dazzle.

Ya have to know he would evade the question.
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