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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:44 PM
Original message
Dean's (Possible) Demise - A Theory
Edited on Fri Jan-30-04 06:48 PM by matcom
Caveat: I was/am/still a Deanie. Dean's anger inspires me. It did. It will. It won't end.

CaveatII: I volunteered for Kerry's reelection campaign for the Senate. I drove to Boston, worked the phone banks. I am proud of that.

I have no special knowledge as to what happened, what is happening, what will happen. I am of TWO camps: ABB & ABL

What happened to Dean? Maybe nothing happened to Dean.

Yes, the 'reinvention' may have cost him (much like it might have cost Gore). People were fired up when he was yelling. Maybe they aren't so fired up anymore (I don't pretend to know).

A radio host (liberal here in MA) today said something that made some sense to me. He was reporting from SC and was interviewing Dems. They were talking about the primaries, the turnout, the polls. HIS conclusion, based on interviews, was the following:

Dems are SO pissed (as well as Independents) at Bush* that they are of the belief, rightly or wrongly, that Kerry is the MOST ELECTABLE against Bush. Call it foreign policy, call it Senatorial experience, call it media-bashing against Dean, call it what you will. Maybe more people agree with Dean on issues but maybe, just maybe more people see the one and only prize - BUSH OUT!

I do not know who is right but i DO know this: MORE PEOPLE ARE VOTING IN THESE PRIMARIES THAN EVER BEFORE. MORE PEOPLE ARE PASSIONATE THAN EVER BEFORE. MORE PEOPLE WANT THIS FASCIST REGIME GONE THAN EVER BEFORE. SO FAR, MORE PEOPLE THINK KERRY CAN KICK BUSH'S ASS!

That, my friends, is not a bad thing no matter WHO you are for. Can i vote Kerry? YOUR DAMNED RIGHT! WILL i vote Kerry? YOUR DAMNED RIGHT! WILL I vote DEAN?? YOUR DAMNED RIGHT!! (that is my ultimate hope)

SO, what will happen to Dean? (I am making an assumption here), I do NOT know. maybe you can help me out (again, ASSUMING A LOT).

Anywhoo, whether or not Dean is in trouble is a matter for another debate. If Dean can pull this out, I will be happier than a clam. If Kerry sweeps the country, I will be happier than a clam.

BRING ON THE NATIONAL DEBATE!!!

I have just ONE more thing to say. WHOMEVER gets the nod, DO NOT let us down and let up on your attacks against BUSH*!!! DO NOT or YOU will pay DEARLY!!

</rant>
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're right.
The media painted the belief that Dean was unelectable and it finally kicked in to the minds of the voters. There is an amazing article you should read here: http://www.blackcommentator.com/75/75_cover_dean_media.html

Fact is, Kerry only won with the help of the media attacks. It's really, really sad if you ask me.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Fact is...."
That is an opinion. And one that is insulting to a good number of voters. Perhaps it's this holier than though and condescending attitude from other camps which caused Kerry to win just as much.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. No it isn't just opinion.
Edited on Fri Jan-30-04 06:52 PM by Sean Reynolds
Polls prove that most voters liked Dean over Kerry, but in the end it was the electable factor that played into their voting.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. That doesn't prove that it was the media...
Edited on Fri Jan-30-04 07:34 PM by vi5
It simply proves that people were basing their votes on different issues than what you are.

Blaming it on the media is a cop-out and an insult to a whole slew of Democratic voters. If either contest were close then fine. But Kerry won fair and square by a wide margin. To blame it on the media is to call a nice chunk of voters idiots.

And besides, since when do polls matter or count as fact?
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Who was it than?
Edited on Fri Jan-30-04 07:46 PM by Sean Reynolds
The media has been in anti-Dean form since December. Read that article I posted. They've continaully beat into the minds of the voters that Dean couldn't win.

As for polling counting as fact, these were results of exit polls and I do believe some could be wrong, but they're the only things out there that give us the reason behind why someone voted for a candidate.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. So you're basically saying people can't think for themselves....
Or more to the point, that if they don't think like you then it MUST be the result of media brainwashing.

And how did you propose that Dean would overcome that come November against Bush in an open election if he couldn't overcome it in the democratic primary?
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I didn't say that.
I said that the media DOES have a large impact on the minds of voters. Remember the 2000 election? Most people said they liked Gore on policy, felt he had a better understanding of the political arena and felt he actually stood for what he believed in. Yet he didn't win. Why? Because the media played up the fact that Bush was a good 'ol boy; while Gore was a typical liberal - boring to core. Hell I remember watching interviews with MANY people and hearing them saying that the only reason they picked Bush over Gore was because they felt that they could sit at a bar and enjoy a beer with Bush and not Gore. Who made that image possible? IMO that was the media. They played up the fact Gore was boring and it hurt him.

It's what the media does and many people believe it.
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lurk_no_more Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. But gore "WAS" boring
As James Carville said about * voters.....Instead of voting for the lesser of two evils, they voted for the evil of the two lessers.

The media did paint gore unfairly as a liar, but to say he was boring was an understatement.

The media is involved in painting negative pictures of candidates, but it's what they do and if a candidate can't rise above the painted picture he's toast, and crying foul isn't how you rise above it.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. My favorite description of the Gore v. Bush* battle:
The insufferable versus the incompetent.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
42. Anybody...
... who DOESN'T think that media advertising and messages affect the opinions of voters might ask themselves why candidates and corporations spend billions of dollars to get their message out.

Puhleasse.
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
50. Pro-war DLC selected the establishment pro-war candidate. Dean ran
against the DLC, the entrenched pro-war democrats, and the repubs. Dean's distinction would be clear only as a third party candidate. The great thing about this race is that it shows that the anti-Iraq war democrats have NO democratic leadership.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. I agree with you.
We all know how this works ... one talking head says Dean is unelectable, then everyone repeats it. When someone finally does have the brains to ask why Dean is unelectable, the answer is "because everyone says so." The same thing happened with Gore - he was branded a liar and the people calling him a liar couldn't even tell us what he lied about - he was a liar because "everyone said so."

The media is supposed to report the facts. Instead they are influencing the electoral process. This may sound corny, but I actually do believe in the Democratic process. When it's honest, it works almost perfectly. I find the behavior of the media (during this election and the last one) to be appalling!

And yes, I'm a Dean supporter, but I assure you, it's not sour grapes. It's the truth and it makes me angry and scared - I'm starting to believe that we don't have a chance, folks. Let's face it. They're going after Kerry next. They may give him a free ride until he gets the nomination, but I guarantee, he'll be getting screwed by the press, too.

They have the House, the Senate, the White House, the Supreme Court and the media - so what now? :mad: :scared:

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Indiana Democrat Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. Your argument doesn't wash...
The media is conservative...

Conservatives were PRAYING for a Dean nomination...

And you say this conservative media destroyed him?


You can't have it both ways.

The simple fact is, Dean destroyed Dean.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well put....but I fear many have their minds made up....
And already losing sight of the real goal here. I always disagreed with third party voters lack of pragmatism, but at the same time respected their idealism.

That will not happen this year for me. There is one goal and only one thing we can and must do about it. That is to get bush out of office and the only way to do that is to vote for the democratic nominee. And if you aren't willing to do that then I don't want to hear any fucking complaints when he wins again.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. DU is not America
Keep it in mind.
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RogueTrooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. Neither is freerepublic
but it's influence on the body politic should not be ignored.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
40. Valid Point
Because of the information available here, most DUers opposed the war. Because of the dearth of truthful information available to "America," most Americans supported the war.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Unfortunately, we'd all pay dearly.
If the nominee lets us down and lets up on attacking Bush, that is.

I don't have the answer, but if Dean's energy got things going, it's difficult to see Kerry as the alternative. I'm not bashing Kerry, for once. Just making an observation. I think it's clear that many people believe that Kerry is the "most electable." I admit that the arguments offered to justify that belief have left me out of the loop, thus far. But I guess that's been the key thus far for Kerry.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks Matcom
Edited on Fri Jan-30-04 06:51 PM by indigo32
for an uplifting perspective. I think you are right.... it does show that people are motivated to get Bush out. SO AM I!
I've never really felt that Kerry is more electable... but either way, I think things are probably looking up for the fall.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great post. and I know Kerry really gets on your bad side too
as he does a lot of his constituents in the commonwealth. And if Dean is the guy who can and does beat Bush then so be it.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. The issues
Health care, Kerry has a great plan.
Jobs, Kerry has a great plan.
Energy Independence, Kerry has a great plan.
Education, Kerry has a great plan.

He can talk about them in great detail so people know he understands all of it thoroughly. It isn't just something he read on a policy paper. And people sense his tenacity and integrity.

And it occurs to me, that working people actually DO know where state health care programs come from. Working people know those programs come from the Federal Govt. So maybe when Howard says all kids are covered in Vermont, they know it's because of Medicaid and SCHIP and automatically know he's full of it. Like I have since he started saying it. I don't know. That would be an interesting thing to find out.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Yes, let's talk issues
Health care, Kerry has a great plan. Actually, Kerry just has an idea on paper. Dean has actually developed AND implemented a plan that not only passed, but is supported by both Republicans and Democrats alike.

Jobs, Kerry has a great plan. Another idea on paper, but when has Kerry ever actually CREATED JOBS? Dean spent 12 years creating jobs in Vermont. He did a damn good job of it, too.

Energy Independence, Kerry has a great plan. Just more ideas on paper from Kerry. Vermont uses ethanol AND all our car dealerships are required by law to offer cars that uses alternative energy. Again, Dean actually DID something to make some changes in the right direction. That's accomplishment. Kerry has accomplished nothing, on yet another issue.

Education, Kerry has a great plan. Let me guess...he has something written down that he claims he'll do if he's elected, despite the fact that he VOTED for No Child Left Behind. (Yeah, there's some vision for you! NOT) Dean signed ACT 60. Vermont has true education equality between the wealthy towns and the poorest towns. Well what do you know...Dean trumps Kerry on this and every other issue because Dean actually has EXECUTIVE experience. Kerry has a lot of experience signing his name, but that's not going to do diddly squat to turn this country around. Dean has the experience to get things done. Governors make the strongest challengers to Incumbent presidents. Senators haven't won since Kennedy, and John Kerry is NOT John F. Kennedy, not by a long shot.

He can talk about them in great detail so people know he understands all of it thoroughly. It isn't just something he read on a policy paper. And people sense his tenacity and integrity.

It doesn't matter how well someone can talk about programs and plans. What matters is how much success and experience you have implementing the programs and plans so that they become a reality instead of just something talked about. Dean is far stronger on the issues than Kerry could ever dream of being because Dean has actually DONE them already. Personally, I'll stick with someone who has already shown me they can accomplish things. Anyone can sign their name and talk a big game, but I want someone with a proven ability to get things done. Howard Dean is that guy.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. You hit on the most encouraging sign, the amazing
turnout - I hope we continue to see this in all the primaries and caucuses. Imagine the message that will send!

Liberal radio host in Boston??? It must have been NPR, unless there's someone hiding on the dial that I don't know about. :-)
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pacifictiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. 10 Months is a long time
Edited on Fri Jan-30-04 06:55 PM by pacifictiger
in a presidential campaign. Look what happened in only 1 month. I think the real disappointment here is that so many people are still being hypnotized by the media mantra of "electability" and "image." Thats the smoke and mirror nonsense that has been going on in washington for too many years! Bush uses it with remarkable abandon. If you want your vote to matter, and care at all for this country, THINK for a change and if you are going to pick a nominee, pick one for substance, not just what someone else tells you is the flavor of the day. I find it interesting that around 80% of Dean voters voted because of issues and message, while the majority of Kerry voters voted on electabilty image over issues. With support coming from such fickle supporters like this, the winds of media infotainment focus could just as easily blow in a different direction within 6 months.

Astrology skeptics will jump on me for this statement - but - Dean is going thru a rough patch right now, it will get better. Kerry is getting cosmic help.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. The issues make him electable
It's the whole package, he's got the issues, the message, the experience, the knowledge, and everything else people are looking for in a candidate. If it were pure electability, people would go for the easy route and choose Clark.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
45. Haha -- He's got a little too much of DEAN'S issues for my taste
Co-opted Dean's message, engaged in dirty tricks to bring Dean's favorables down, then convinced voters who are scared witless about Bush that he, Kerry, is more electable.

It's a winning strategy, obviously, but dishonest as hell.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
44. And his cosmic help runs out not too long from now
And that's ANOTHER reason he can't get elected in November.

It's also another reason I'm thrilled with Dean's and Roy Neal's new longterm game plan.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Dean is a hell of a lot more electable than Kerry is
Kerry is an uber-liberal for the most part and Dean is a moderate with a phenomenal record who speaks to the heart and from the heart. Nominating Dean gives Democrats not only the one they like the best, but also the most electable. If Democrats quit listening to who the Republican say is or isn't electable they might actually win an election.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Hmmm, when Independents proclaim what Democrats like best...
Sorry, the Democrats of Iowa and NH seem to disagree.

This Democrat likes John Kerry just fine
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. You don't mind if I disagree?
The results of Iowa and NH would tend to directly contradict your hypothesis.

I really like Dean, but I'm more convinced than ever that it will be Kerry who Dems, Indies, and mod. Repubs will rally around.
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Joseph Thule Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. My opinion? Dean is DONE. The media has neutered him.
At this point, Dean is about as electable as my foot.
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Exgeneral Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Nail on the head Matcom.
That's EXACTLY what we get with Kerry: someone who WILL let up on the attacks against *

In fact, they are depending on this.

This guy is the of the same group that rolled over in 2002. Where was the anger THEN?

I suspect Kerry won't let us down; he'll run a "dignified " race while the right wing pulverize his patrician New England ass.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. If the media decides to play Dean up, he willshoot up in the polls.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. But it wont happen.
Notice you haven't heard much attacks on Kerry since he took over as the front runner? I wonder why.......
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. Check this link out:
http://www.freepressed.com/frontrunner.htm

You never know wha tthe press will do. Really, all the Dean campaign has to do is come up with some magical thing, like, say, showing that the bat is getting 200k a day, then it'd hit the news, and volia, "Dean continues raising 200k a day!" Instant karma.
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George_Bonanza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
48. Just you wait
Once the Republicans and the media are assured of Dean's demise, they will focus on Kerry. Right now, there's plenty in circulation about Kerry's lobbying funds if that makes you happy. Remember French-looking? Philly cheesesteak? Botox? The Washington Mall? Don't try and pretend Kerry's gotten a free ride. He was ignored by the same media that gave rise to Dean. The media kept repeating about how liberal Dean was, which was what attracted many people, but also repelled many in the end.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. this is the thread of the week
Wonderful. Stupendous. Astounding.

I love it!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. you notice there is no candidate avatar by my name
and just want to make sure you read where i am coming from.

assuming you did, thank you very much :)
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I did
I don't care whom you support, or who you're going to vote for in this primary. If someone sticks up for the team (Team Democrat, BTW) then I think they're cool.
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Bravo for an excellent post
I feel exactly the same way and wish I could have said it as well!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
25. Makes sense to me....
:)
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jonoboy Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. (ABB) : Dean's has fire and that's great for the USA ! (ABB)
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. There is some good news in that, if your theory is correct and I'm
inclined to think you are correct.

However, I'm not sure that those who have voted so far are demographically diverse enough to judge who is "most electable".

Maybe they are right. We can only hope.

I'm a Deanie too and still am. I also will reluctantly vote for KerryWhoVotedToInvadeIraq, if he gets the nomination, but have severe doubts about how he will survive the Bush Juggernaut of Smears.

It's just a matter of opinion, I suppose on who is "most electable". I can't remember ever having a Dem nominee runing for prez who issued public statements that made me go; YES!!!, but Dean has done that for me from the start, and still does.

Bless him for making it "legal" again in this country to criticize the Emporer with No Clothes.
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FreeperSlayer Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
35. ABB!
Bush Out!
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
37. That is the precise theory that the GOP rallied to BUSH using.
Go with one guy. Collect all the money. McCain was unplanned. Crush him like a bug. Matcom, here's what I think: Presidential politics is "long haul" "you better wear well on the folks" politics. Dean fit neither.

Glad to see you around-go fetch Pitt,now!
G.G.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. i disagree that Dean fit neither
i think he fits pretty damn well actually. BUT, currently, it isn't working for whatever reason. a lot of that may have to do with the exit polling in NH where more people said that they agreed with Dean but Kerry had a better chance to beat Bush.

not for a minute saying they are right or wrong, just what they said. again, what that tells me is that WE ARE LIKELY TO WIN come November (provided the elections are fair)
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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. My Email to My Meetup that I coordinate in Mobile, AL
Hey gang,

The initial strategy was to win Iowa, and then New Hampshire, which usually brings more money and momentum, but the media killed both of those, by playing up things that were relatively insignificant, shades of Gore's sigh (so significant whether a president sighs, or how he dresses) and earth-tone looks. The campaign had a shakeup, and they hired some guy named Neal, which is of course being overplayed tremendously as a negative again in the media (Washington insider, etc.). Joe Trippi was encouraged to stay on, perhaps in managing the Internet role, but he declined felling he didn't want to accept a subservient role. Apparently they have about 4 million or so, by best estimates, though I've not heard exactly how much.

I can feel the despair in some of your emails, and with the media's portrayal of things, I can understand. Remember why you entered the campaign, and the feeling you got from Dean in the first place. Has that changed? Most of you still say you love Governor Dean, and his straight-talking, honest style. I've always preferred that myself, rather than people who just tell me what I want to hear. Some things to remember, and be encouraged about.

„h Since Dean opted out of campaign restrictions, by our vote, other candidates will run short of money way before the primaries are done. This is a big advantage.
„h Only 2 of 50 primaries have transpired, and they were very small states, with few delegates.
„h Even so, Dean is still ahead in the race with the delegate count thus-far. You'll notice the media hasn't pointed that out, preferring to portray Kerry as a 2-0 winner, and pronounce Dean DOA, and encourage him to leave the race. Hey, didn't we destroy you already Dean? Get lost!! Get a clue media, Dean is ahead.
„h I've said this all along, and they reinforced the though yesterday, we are his main weapon. The media BS isn't just trying to steer Democratic votes away from Dean, to Washington insider Kerry, who's been receiving corporate contributions for decades now, but it is trying to break your spirit, and make us quit on Dean. They know we do have the power, and just like they pounded Dean, they are beating on us, hoping we'll start doubting, and whining, and going to other candidates. Right now, we are so in this race, and we need to be strong, and instead of whining, write letters, and use every resource we can to keep Dean in the race. We can be like steel and weather the storm, or have our spines snapped like twigs with the weight of their rhetoric, following their script and giving up on Dean. Don't be led around by the nose by a media that only has corporate interests at heart.
„h Clinton lost ten primaries before he went on to win, and lost both Iowa and New Hampshire.

The general strategy: While we haven't given up on the states in February 3rd, and we'll probably win some delegates, the general strategy now is to shoot for the four states following, Wisconsin, Maine, Michigan, and Washington, all delegate-rich states. This wasn't the original strategy, changing it was necessary, as the results coming out of the two early states were different than expected. We are writing to Virginia, and Wisconsin this meet up, on February 4th and we've switched to 5.5" by 8.5" post cards. Be concise if you prepare a letter to bring, so you can squeeze it on the card. Mainly, remember our new strategy. While I expect we'll get a few delegates in the February 3rd contests, don't be discouraged and not show up if we don't win any of them. Remember our strategy, to go for the four large states listed above, later in February, where Dean is already more popular. Plenty of things can happen, Kerry is getting a lot of heat for his Vietnam War years, about throwing away his medals (some say he threw away someone else's medals, he says it was his ribbons) , and about not really putting too much legislation forward in his years in the Senate. Truth is, Kerry, Dean, Clark, Edwards, even Lieberman could still win. So many things can change the outcome, when and where folks drop out, and where their votes go, different people winning primaries, thus splitting the delegates, and a potential gaffe by any one of them. Do what you can. Instead of griping, write letters, write a letter to the editor of newspapers, post on blogs and message boards, pass out literature, register people to vote. I've been doing my part, and while I realize some might not have the time, money, or inclination, I couldn't really afford to buy 115 stamps, but I did. He lives or dies by our hand, and griping and whining won't get anyone elected, no one said it was going to be easy. But if you must, and just feel like venting, go ahead, it's been tough emotionally. Remember it's a long race, there are front-runners, pacers, and closers, Dean is hanging in there pacing the race now, and he's still in the thick of things. Work hard, and remember what you got into this thing for, for me, it was a feeling.

One note about me: In case you've not figured this out, I'm likely one of the most liberal ones in this group, and rather than shunning it, I realize it is a great thing, and wear the label proudly. So if my opinions rankle you at times, that is likely why. I didn't really want to lead this thing, but I'm doing my best for a guy I believe might be our best and only chance to stop the erosion of our democracy. If someone calls me a liberal, I don't shrink away, I say "Thank you!" So realize that others in the group aren't quite as radically-leftist as me, but I've had a lot of time to watch things, realizing long ago that the whole "liberal media" thing was a conservative ruse, as well as the demonization of the poor, blacks, and the word liberal. A lot of money has been spent to achieve these purposes, and the ranks of the mindless myrmidons sycophants who follow the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly are strong and growing, often buying into a philosophy that has over-time lowered their incomes, and sent their jobs out-of-country. Many are waking up to this, I hope some of you have, in light of what we've seen them do to Dean. Just hang in there, and let's try to win this thing, there are 48 more States remaining. If Dean can talk himself hoarse, and keep plodding through the motions, preaching his philosophy to the millions of us who believe in him and show up at his campaign stops, then we can certainly write letters, and keep the faith.

Thanks for all your efforts, and faith in Dean, and his campaign. Sorry it was so long, but I had a lot to convey.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
46. The Osama add, dirty push polling and underhanded media happened
Edited on Sat Jan-31-04 11:14 AM by mzmolly
to Dean. Repeat after me.... "Status quo, status quo, status quo..."
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. ::waves:: Hey molly, check out my post #39.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
49. Matcom
Your fair-weather friend posture saddens me. But maybe you're not paying attention. Here's where we're going from here and I think it's brilliant:

Roy Neel: Where We Go From Here

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/003471.html

Friday, January 30, 2004

This campaign has always defied conventional wisdom. Our extraordinary rise last year defied conventional wisdom—so did our fall in Iowa, and so did our comeback in New Hampshire after most pundits predicted Howard Dean was finished.

Conventional wisdom has been consistently wrong about this race.

So when conventional wisdom says a candidate must win somewhere on February 3, or that John Kerry will have wrapped up the nomination after fewer than 10% of the delegates have been chosen, we disagree.

Our goal for the next two and a half weeks is simple—become the last-standing alternative to John Kerry after the Wisconsin primary on February 17.

Why Wisconsin? First, it is a stand-alone primary where we believe we can run very strong. Second, it kicks off a two-week campaign for over 1,100 delegates on March 2, and the shift of the campaign that month to nearly every big state: California, New York, and Ohio on March 2, Texas and Florida on March 9, Illinois on March 16, and Pennsylvania on April 27.

In the meantime, Howard Dean is traveling to many of the February 3 states, sending surrogates—including Al Gore—to most, and conducting radio interviews in all. We believe that one or more of our major opponents will be eliminated that day, and that the others will fall by the wayside as our strength grows in the following days. As a result we have elected to not buy television advertisements in February 3 states, but instead direct our resources toward the February 7 and 8 contests in Michigan, Washington and Maine. We may not win any February 3 state, but even third place finishes will allow us to move forward, continue to amass delegates in Virginia and Tennessee on February 10, and then strongly challenge Kerry in Wisconsin.

Regardless of who takes first place in these states, we think that after Wisconsin we’ll get Kerry in the open field. Remember one crucial thing about the 2004 calendar—in previous years a front-runner or presumptive nominee would typically emerge after most of the states had voted and most of the delegates had been chosen. The final competitor to that candidate, even if he won late states, as many have done, has not been able to win a majority of delegates under any scenario.

This year is very different. The media and the party insiders will attempt to declare Kerry the winner on February 3 after fewer than 10% of the state delegates have been chosen. At that point Kerry himself will probably have claimed fewer than one third of the delegates he needs to win. They would like the campaign to be over before the voters of California, New York, Texas and nearly every other big state have spoken.

Democrats in Florida, who witnessed a perversion of democracy in November 2000, will not have a choice concerning the nominee if the media and the party insiders have their way.

We intend to make this campaign a choice. We alone of the remaining challengers to John Kerry are geared to the long haul—we’ve raised nearly $2 million in the week after Iowa, over $600,000 in the 48 hours since New Hampshire. No candidate—not even Kerry, who mortgaged his house and tapped his personal fortune to funnel $7 million into his campaign —will have sufficient funds to advertise in all, or even most, of the big states that fall on March 2 and beyond. At that point paid advertising becomes much less of a factor.

And we alone of the remaining challengers offer a clear choice to Kerry. Howard Dean is no Johnny Come Lately to the message of change—he has actually delivered change in Vermont. Howard Dean has the courage and conviction to stand up for what’s right, even when it’s not politically popular, as opposed to the cautiousness, compromise and convenience that has characterized John Kerry’s 19 years in the Senate.

We believe that when the voters of the post-Wisconsin states—which constitute 75% of the delegates that will be chosen in the states—compare Howard Dean and John Kerry, they will conclude that Dean, not Kerry, has the best chance to beat George Bush, because only Dean offers a clear vision of change and a record of results that contrasts against the rhetoric emanating from Washington. We believe they will increasingly reject the rubber stamp presented to them by the media.

Has such a strategy ever worked before?

No. It's never been tried.

But prior to this year, no candidate had ever raised $46 million dollars, mostly from ordinary Americans giving $100 each. Prior to this year no candidate for President had ever inspired the kind of grass-roots activity that has been this campaign’s hallmark. Prior to this year no candidate for President had so clearly revitalized his party, allowed it to reclaim its voice, and shifted the agenda so clearly to a call for change.

Let the conventional wisdom and the media declare this race over. We’re going to let the people decide.

Roy Neel
Chief Executive Officer
Dean for America
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