Look at stats on just one "I'm leaving the party if no fillibuster" thread

[applegrove]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2365129&mesg_id=2365129


And the stats are in on this thread! Those who want a third party have 517, 903 & 53 Posts respectively.

Blow up party and get rid of appeasers: 648 posts.

Those who want to build the Democratic Party and stick together... 429, 207, 1000+, 1000+, 1000+, 1000+, 1000+,1000+, 1000+, 1000+,1000+, and 1000+ posts.

:rofl:

[Neil Lisst]

1. Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMM.

-- LL Cool J

I've noticed that, too. Fifth columners?!

[donco6]

2. Sniff, sniff - anyone smell something FISHY?

Duh!

[Neil Lisst]

6. The GOP has its agents trying to pass, IMO.

I've been watching it evolve the past couple of months, as they get smarter about how to build post counts with safe tactics, and avoiding overt actions that give them away.

Then come the topics which always question or seek to divide or undermine the party.

Don't get me wrong. No Dem is more caustic than me when raking a Dem over the coals for failing to stand up for our ideals. But I never couple it with leaving. You reprimand those who go off the path and try to bring them back in.

Anyone who talks about trying to move votes away from the party is my enemy. I take this battle very seriously. We are fighting for our way of life, for what America really is.

[donco6]

10. What's partic. interesting is they tend to say . . .

"and if the Dems won't stand up for something, I'm going to become an Independent!"

yeah, like the independents stand for anything. Do they even have a platform? "We stand for not standing for anything." It's like a bad Monty Python sketch.

[Neil Lisst]

15. We are the men who say NEEEEEEEEK! n/t

[LSparkle]

11. I'm sticking with this party AND this country

These Pukes aren't gonna make ME move! If THEY don't like the way America is -- if THEY want a society in which your FATHER's social standing determines what yours will be, and wealth can easily be INHERITED rather than earned -- THEY SHOULD MOVE back to some Old World country.

[applegrove]

14. They want to smash the country into three parties - so that the only

real race for power is in the leadership race of the middle party. That way - power is much cheaper.

[LSparkle]

19. Maybe I don't get it, but wouldn't 3 parties mean LESS power

for the dyed-in-the-wool Thugs? The radical right would lose big time if there was a true alternative to the 2-party system. Think of all the "moderate" Regressives who might defect from the GOP....

[stray cat]

23. It depends on the ideals of the third party

A party on the extreme right hurts the republicans. A party on the extreme left hurts the democrats. A centrist party might be interesting because its unclear which party that would hurt. A centrist is probably the only third party that might be able to actually win.

[applegrove]

26. Exactly. Now - progressive ideas do make it to the forefront - the half

the time Democrats are in power - some of the issues do surface. The progressive ideas would never make it to the Presidency if the almost permanent president in the middle party - never had to appeal to the left part of his base.

And in countries where the left party gets into power these days - they always govern fiscally responsibly anyhoo - because the credit markets and dollars take a beating from markets if not.

So it isn't as if a left party could govern without moderate values fiscally. So there we are.

[applegrove]

25. That is not how it works in three party states. Where the middle party

represent the middle. The left party never gets into power in Canada (except provincially where the Liberals are locked in some cases). Then it isn't so much an election.. as a leadership race that decides all.

We cry about lack of democracy in the elections.

Look up three party states. I would work horribly in the USA where the President doesn't need a majority - just the most votes. All the people who jump from the right.. jump to the middle. All the people who jump from the left - jump to the middle. Think about it!

[zanne]

33. As opposed to the "two"-party Republican system we have now?

If Republicans are Republicans, but Democrats aren't Democrats, isn't that just a one-party system? Let's face it; the way the Dems have been acting since the Bush takeover has done more for the Republican Party than any third party could ever do.

[applegrove]

34. Dems how little power. And the leaders are all third wayers. Big

difference. People who don't see it - say it doesn't matter, one party is the same as the other - voted for Nader in 2000. Apparently Gore even won then - by at least 30,000 votes. Would have been nice to have the 5%. Then none of this would have happened. Gore would have attacked Afghanistan and used the sympathy to build bridges with people all over the world to fight extremism. Iraq would never have happened.

[AtomicKitten]

20. I'm with you on that - It's go-time - Only the bold survive. (nt)

[NMDemDist2]

3. you can add another 1000+ to your list

:evilgrin:

[sickinohio]

5. Well - I don't have a thousand yet

but add me to your list of people sticking with the Dems and against the rePukes, please.

[calico1]

4. You're not the only one that noticed. n/t

[applegrove]

8. Of course not. I just put it into a chart of sorts.

[calico1]

27. No, that's not what I meant.

I meant you are not the only one that noticed as in I too am seeing a lot of "I give up I'm going Green" posts. Just agreeing with you. ;)

[applegrove]

28. Sorry. Don't know why I was defensive. My bad!

[applegrove]

7. I will stop the stats here. I've added 4 1000+ since the 'random sample'

was taken.

[kath]

30. Well, I've got 1000+ ,and I'm sick TO DEATH of spinelessness among the

Dems.

[applegrove]

31. Yes. People are tired of no voice. But do you want to destroy the

big Dem tent and go for Nader? Would that make it better? Bush is in the low 40s. An election is a year away. What is the best thing we can do?

[welshTerrier2]

9. new posters have as much right to an opinion as other posters

why is it that people get so energized about questioning the legitimacy of newer posters? they're entitled to decide whether they want to remain in the Party or leave it just as much as anyone else ...

instead of questioning their motives, why not just make your best arguments about why you disagree with them??

[applegrove]

13. When they post repeatedly - on the same topic - and are new - we

have a right & a duty to be skeptical. It is called Standing Up and fighting - if not over there in the hearings - then at least here on the DU!

I don't think that anyone here things that the average new poster is anything but a Dem. But "disruption" does happen.

[Neil Lisst]

18. Because it's a pattern that suggests a scheme to undermine.

It's really easy for some to do. Throw out some topic that is divisive, that suggests to lurkers, readers, members that real Dems are losing heart.

Horse apples! It's like saying "if we don't stop China from taking Taiwan, I'm leaving America!"

[mmonk]

12. Let's see....

30 + 49 = 79! I may have constitutional rights again when I hit 79! (if rightwing rule on the federalist society run supreme court last 30 years)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

22. yeah smart democratic leaders!

RIGHT WRONG OR CROOKED AS A REPUKE SENATOR WE'RE ALL BEHIND YOU! Put that in the survey and smoke it... btw, finally a democratic post on this topic. thanks

[PretzelWarrior]

16. so what are you trying to say? that someone with 909 posts is a traitor?

to the Dem party because they would look at a third party option?

[PretzelWarrior]

21. what is the breakdown on "stars" for each side?

I say someone donating has more likely got a good reason for hanging out here


But GOPAC is probably funding trolls to come on here and donate their $10 a piece so they can disrupt the entire Democracy.

[applegrove]

32. I don't know that money will tell you much. Or that low numbers tell you

anything but the basest of trends. Perhaps I will do the aggregate of all the posts on this topic. And see if the trend becomes clearer. Stopping at the time I posted the original stats.

Will take an hour at least. See you then!

[applegrove]

24. When it is a repeated post. And shows a pattern. You have to wonder.

The only people who gain from a third party is the middle party. In places like Canada the middle party wins 75 sometimes 80% of the time. Then the race for power takes place in leadership races. And that is a much cheaper way of gaining access to power.

No doubt the neocons & GOP operatives have smashing the Democratic party to pieces as a goal.

It isn't as if the discussion was stopped. The discussion - on leaving the democratic party if they don't filibuster - has been repeatedly posted. I have not done stats on those threads. Perhaps I should do something in the aggregate. Would that be a better sample?

[realFedUp]

17. I'm ready for a counter coup

and I think I have 20,000 plus posts...I can understand
the frustration to want to do something to get this nation
back to some kind of democracy in the light of one man
and one party making the laws and breaking the ones they
don't agree with.

I'm not a radical or a lawbreaker but I can now understand
why coups happen.

[applegrove]

29. For sure. And nobody is trying to stop the discussion. Except the

people who keep posting new threads when the first few take a direction they don't like - or appreciate, and wipe the slate clean and post again with the same message.

For sure discussion. Judiciously and with lost of thought and reading. That discussion will go on.

But we don't have to be naive about it.

And as to 20,000 posts - for sure. Everyone who is 1000+ has often thousands of posts.

[applegrove]

35. I give up. No more stats tonight.

[Dr Fate]

36. I'm glad you find wide-spread disenchantment so amusing.

I find it very troubling myself.

I'm praying to God that Democrats wills stand up for us on this.

If Democrats once again give Bush what he wants, I wont leave DU or the party, but it will make picking the pom-poms much harder.

Laugh it up, but don't bitch and moan when many of hard-working volunteers from '04 decide to take on "real jobs" for money or stay at home with their families in '06 & '08 rather than hitting the streets & phones DEMs who cant muster up a good fight.

[applegrove]

37. I don't find it funny. Why I pointed out how funny it was that longer

term DUers are ready to fight. A vague trend. But please. Don't expect me to sit like a houseplant when three people out of a thread of 10 are planning to leave and form their own party.

[Dr Fate]

38. If you dont find it funny, then why did you post the ":rofl:" icon?

This one:

:rofl:

Laugh it up- I'm sure ridiculing concerned Democrats is a real winner for '06.

[applegrove]

39. They are giving up on Democratic politics. Do you know how hard

it will be and how many battles are to come? We have been through much more than one appointment and lack of power to do much about it in an effective way amongst our leaders. It will be the trend of the future year - as it has been the last 6 years. When people threaten to give up - (at a rate of 30% in one thread) - they get begged and they get cajoled to stick around. Pointing out that they are not long termers and at times that could mean a troll (because it does happen, why DU has rules)is pointing out the obvious.

Go ahead and be supportive. I do that 99% of the time. I'm the one who tells people to take a break, plant a garden, mentor a kid or volunteer.. and be ready for the fight in 2006.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. Not only am I a long time DUer, I've been a registered Democratic voter

since 1968, as has my spouse, and we have been good contributors to Democratic candidates.

Now when the DNC calls, e-mails, or writes, we're telling them "DO SOMETHING TO DESERVE OUR MONEY AND OUR VOTE."

We're fed up. We're done with voting for Dems who are just a hair better than their Republican opponents, who vote like Republicans. We are trying to wake the Dems up and tell them to be an opposition party. Unfortunately, this is a one party country now and that party is the party of MONEY.

[ChiciB1]

44. We're In The Same Age Group Here... And I've NEVER Seen

anything like this. My first chance to vote was for McGovern... cute huh? But having said that, what with the landslide and all, the feeling I have NOW cannot be compared.

Back then I felt we could change things, but now... well where do I go???

[DemBones DemBones]

45. Hey, I voted for Gene McCarthy in '68!

And of course for McGovern in '72.

Where do we go? What do we do? If they don't filibuster, I'm re-registering as an Independent or a Green -- I started a thread suggesting people go out and re-register to send the Dems a message.

[ChiciB1]

46. The Greens In My Town Amount To About 20!

Been there, done that! Maybe Independent will work, but then in my state you can't vote in primaries!

I actually like John Edwards and Russ Feingold... but there are so few! Bernie Sanders is fantastic, and I LOVED Paul Wellstone!

A very sad thing... he happened to have died on my birthday 3 years ago! Pretty sick stuff! I'm pretty Liberal and wonder HOW I would do as an Independent. Also, the Green Party here actually stated that they never really think of winning a Presidential election, they're more activist than anything else. But what good does it do. Remember Nader???

[Dr Fate]

41. Your strategy is to lump in long-time DUers with them.

You apologists try to lump every one who does not tow the failed strategies of the DLC with Nader.

You can blow that smoke up someone elses ass.

"battles are to come?" HELLO? There SHOULD be a battle RIGHT NOW, but instead you defend yet another roll-over.


Oh that's right, I forgot- we are "keeping our powder dry" for "the battles are to come." SUuuuuuure we are. Until the GOP/ media says mean things about us again.

[Generator]

42. I'm seriously laughing here

The battles to come??????????? First of all, you aren't even an American but I've noticed the majority of your posts are always on the conservative side. So go ahead and tell people that have to live in this country how this isn't a battle and we are giving up the future battle. That's right, you go ahead. The Dems have already given up on every battle that matters (if they don't even fucking try to defeat this guy-I don't expect victory I expect them to do their fucking job which is represent me-and give it their all-fight a battle-oh that's a good one) what battles-election reform, health care, ending the pointless war in Iraq based on lies, stopping the president from raping the constitition-what battles have the Dems fought??? They capitulate. They waiver. They give up. They compromise. They smile. They are politicians and this is life and death for us that have to live here. The battle is now. And they are giving up.

[Dr Fate]

43. This cat is not an American? No wonder. "Battles to come" he says!

Yes- we are "keeping our powder dry"

[applegrove]

51. Battles come and dems have very little in the way of power. In fact

they have none. There was a good three years there where the allies built up some strength and capacity before they tried to hit Hitler. Hitler had a ten year lead up to building up for the fight. Give the Dems some time to put soldiers on the ballot and develop a strategy to win in 2006. Bush is doing badly in the polls finally. We did win some stuff.

Have you not noticed how intelligent design got beat back? Diebold is going nowhere. Fights are being one. But when you don't have control of congress or the senate you cannot expect the Dems to win every single time. Even if Dems are winning 1/3 of the battles - they are doing much better than they were not ten months ago.

Please. Courage.

[ChiciB1]

48. Sign Me Up For THE REVOLUTION!!

This "cat" IS an American... if I actually want to be labeled that way at this point in time. I'm not sure this IS America anymore. Actually, I don't SEE America anymore. We're a CON-GLOM-ER-ATE! A four word WORD!! Each taken separately, that about sums it up!

:nuke: :grr: :mad: :crazy: :scared: AND :wtf:

[applegrove]

49. They don't have any power! And last time I looked the Dems never

won an election when they were not a big tent. Yes I am a moderate. But I also scream the loudest when it comes to neocons.

[bpilgrim]

47. the DLC'ers don't won't hear 'liberal' points of view, too quaint

ask St. Ralph

peace

[applegrove]

50. I have nothing against filibuster. That would please us all to no end.

I hope it happens. I'm fighting apathy. I don't want to see another 2000 when the popular vote is against Repukes but they win again.

Why not mention 2000. It is how we got here.

[Canuckistanian]

52. Interesting analysis

Not that I ascribe to the theory that more posts=wiser, truer liberal/progressive, but interesting.

What conclusion can we really draw?

That new people are disruptors? Or are they people with fresh, new ideas that have been rejected everywhere else?

Remember, every group has their "established gentry" who have more than their share of influence.

Keep an open mind.

[The Magistrate]

53. Locking

This is "calling-out" other members of the forum, and that is against the rules.