Bush wants companies to stop paying for your health care

[MissWaverly]

Bush's new health plan: American companies should stop paying for employee health care
by Caren Bohan, Reuters News Agency

Jan. 12, 2006

President George W. Bush will propose ways to rein in the surging cost of U.S. health care this year as an important focus of his economic strategy, a White House spokesman said on Thursday.

Trent Duffy, traveling in the Gulf Coast region with Bush, said the president's initiative would include new tax breaks for Americans who buy health insurance on their own.

http://www.unknownnews.org/0601130112healthcare.html

PS this is a great site, Miss Waverly

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Shrub to propose new tax cuts for those who when they find

themselves in compromised health..... suicide themselves.

[MissWaverly]

3. dead taxpayers can't pay taxes even when they are democrats

anyone with a brain would know that but we all know who doesn't know it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. In true Monty Python form.... "bring out yer dead! bring out yer dead!"

[Delphinus]

60. Had to come to terms with that myself.

Am employed, but don't make anywhere near enough to provide my own health insurance (although, I saw a sign the other day at Starbucks that they offer it to all their employees, including part-time!).

If I can't keep myself healthy through my alternative ways, I'll have to die. And, after seeing the health industry up close due to family members' illnesses, I think I'd rather die.

[Warpy]

2. Oh, my, and what a disaster that's going to be

with a tax break that will reimburse those lucky enough to qualify for health insurance (the young and healthy) about 5% of what that insurance will actually cost them, encouraging more and more of them to stay out of an insurance pool largely populated by people who are chronically ill but not yet disqualified from care.

Gawd, these Repugs are prize shitheads, aren't they, all thinking we're as wealthy as GeeDumbya and would be just fine if we weren't lazy.

[MissWaverly]

6. it has nothing to do with what's best for America

this is the same thing when Delay overlooked the abuse of the sweat shops/trying to
eliminate corporate participation in employee health care, yes, this is
another way to stuff coffers from corporate lobbies. The
avarice of the greedy old plunderers is insatiable.

The State of Maryland has just passed legislation that Wal-Mart must provide health care for its employees. They over-rode a veto from Gov. No Slots/Maryland (R), of course he voted against it.

[Hello_Kitty]

5. Aaargh! What is he thinking?!?!

I've got a good job and am in great health and I couldn't afford the type of coverage he proposes, even if I paid no federal taxes whatsoever. I agree with the first part of the statement - employers should not be paying for basic health insurance anymore. But the HSA option is a big old dud for most of us.

[donco6]

10. Footprints.

That tag line is hilarious. I can't wait to scribble that on the next plate/plaque/poster/greeting card I see.

BTW, you're absolutely right about the insurance.

[flyarm]

20. AHHHHHHHH ..DOES HE THINK?? IS HE CAPABLE?? N/T

[napi21]

7. Well, of course! You aren't surprised, are you?

He wants to give BUSINESS every break he can think of while he's still in office!

Make health care the responsibility of the employee but forcing them to get their own ins, and eliminating a BIG business expense.

Make retirement savings a responsibility of the employee via "savings accounts" thus eliminating ANOTHER BIG business expense in funding pension plans.

Along with drastically reducing Corporate taxes, and many safety and environmental restrictions, he's insuring his place in history as "THE BEST CORPORATE PRESIDENT!"

Having failed at everything else he's tried, that may be his only hope!

[MissWaverly]

11. No, I am not surprised

I just wish we had a president who cared about the constitution and the American people,
I am even beginning to miss Tricky and his "My fellow Americans."

[cornermouse]

8. Some of the corporations don't want to pay healthcare any more.

And they have informed Bush of that fact. Ergo...

[donco6]

9. As usual, President DumDum has no idea how something works.

The only way insurance works is by spreading risk among a group of people who share the risk equally. Workers in the same company are a good example. When a corporation buys insurance, all the young women of childbearing age, older people facing cancer, smokers, nonsmokers, men with heart problems, women with gallstones, everyone pools their premium to pay the costs for those who have the misfortune of facing some health trauma. The insurance company has to take everyone en masse, and cannot deny coverage to any employee. But, the bigger the pool, the more the risk is spread around. Better for everyone, insurance company and employee/er alike.

Buying insurance "on your own" allows insurance companies to scrutinize you as an individual. Some people simply won't be able to BE insured. Me, for example, having had lymphoma, I probably wouldn't be able to get coverage at all - no matter what I paid. There's no tax break in the world that can replace medical treatment when you need it.

[MissWaverly]

12. You have brought up a valid point

and what a short sighted policy this is; those who does not have health care are forced
to beat on the door of government for aid, which drives up our government's tab and the
tab of all taxpayers, of course, rich companies who have their taxes reduced by having
Bernuda holdings don't have to worry about this.

[guidod]

13. I am so tired of the elite

rich, on both sides, running this Country. Why should any of them care about healthcare?

[MissWaverly]

15. interesting you should say that

do the elite really support Bush, I am reading Fooled Again, on page 15 "He cited foreign
policy and the ballooning federal deficit as Wall Street Republcans' main concerns. "Many
of them may be maxed out." admitted one unnamed Republican, "but they are backing away
from Bush." So then, who is Bush's base. Could it be that they are the "sweat shop republicans."

[guidod]

29. Right now I'm reading

"Night Draws Near" by Anthony Shadid. I'll have to get "Fooled Again" for my next one. I googled it and it looks interesting. Thanks

[MissWaverly]

32. I heard about Night Draws Near, it sound good as well

Fooled again connects the dots for me, I've read other books but I found them too choppy,
this is well written and thoughtful.

[guidod]

42. Night Draws Near is a book

everybody should read. It deals with the REAL life stories of the Iraqis that have lived in Iraq during all the wars and suffering they've endured. I was up until 2:00 this morning reading it, because I couldn't put it down, in disbelief at what these poor innocent WONDERFUL people have gone through and are going through. I've yet to figure out why these people have to suffer so much.

[MissWaverly]

43. From the beginning of the war I have had bad vibes about it

I remember everyone was cheering the attack on Bagdad, it really bothered me because it
looked like a metro area just like my city and I thought how could all those bombs be falling
without hurting civilians. I saw Rummie get up with his chart and explain about precision
targeting and 200 feet, and I thought 200 feet in the sands may not matter but it would matter a great deal in a city. Since then I have seen pictures of Bagdad burning, this
was a huge mistake we made.

[guidod]

47. Taking it one step

further, I was irate when I heard they were going to invade Iraq. Taking it even further I think that the Bush administration new that 911 was going to happen and they just turned a blind eye knowing that it would give that idiot an excuse to murder those innocent people because Hussein tried to kill his Daddy.

[MissWaverly]

51. When Saddam starting talking about switching to Euros

that's when we rushed into Iraq, I believe this whole thing was over oil, petrodollars,
etc.

[guidod]

56. That idiot was talking

about destroying Iraq in 1998. I agree that Oil was a big factor, but his first thought was that he wanted to be a war president. I believe Bush's views of government are as authoritarian and fascist as Mussolini. He is intolerant and will destroy anybody or anything that gets in his way. He is the biggest threat our Country has ever faced.

[MissWaverly]

58. He had dreams of an Iraq War, this clinched it

I believe the reasons for this war were economic and never were based on a military threat

[guidod]

62. I agree with you 100%...

that there was no military threat. I also agree that a lot of it was economic, perhaps most. The invasion of Iraq never would have happened if that killer would have put our Country ahead of his Daddy and his own childish worries of his own legacy. Remember where this jerk is coming from, he has never succeeded or achieved in anything in his entire life. Everything he has touched has wilted and died.

[MissWaverly]

63. We thought Iraq was a soft target

The only reason he invaded Iraq was because of the oil and he thought that it would be a soft target. Maybe it was but once US torture gave birth to the insurgency, it became a real war.

[guidod]

66. Soft target yes...

Oil was one reason but I think it goes a lot deeper than that. Iraq is the focal point for the republican party and is being used to manipulate the citizens of our Country. They're using fear of 911 to push their agendas into our Government. Iraq and words like terrorists, they're coming to get you, we have them on the run, we should all be afraid, are used by all the members of that party to try and keep progressive democrats at bay. If our, so called, leaders of the democratic party start to go astray all they have to do is yank on their leash to keep them in line.

I have to say that it is a very effective tool but, thousands and thousands of innocent lives are being lost just so they can keep us in line. No, I feel, Iraq is much more than oil, it has become the infrastructure of republican party.

[MissWaverly]

67. It cannot work over time w/o martial law

You cannot have a divisive party that bullies people into lockstep w/o military and
police to back it up. The public is growing restive, even they know the high cost
of gasoline and winter heating bills and escalating health costs. The rapid inflation
which will be tied to the decline of the dollar in world markets will be felt
throughout the land. People will tolerate incompetence until it hits their wallets.

[scarletlib]

48. Not meant as a criticism as I get your meaning but I and many

others did not cheer. I cried.

[MissWaverly]

50. all the broadcasters wrapped themselves in the flag

the broadcasts resembled pep rallys, I hope that this year is the last year for this
travesty.

[raccoon]

71. Yeah, to a lot of American fools it was like a g-d movie.

"I remember everyone was cheering the attack on Bagdad, "

[leesa]

55. We the people provide them with the best health care policy money can buy

Companies WILL NOT be paying for your health care much longer folks....ACCEPT IT! It's going away. Whether you like it or not. It's just so sad that we were stupid enough not to have had a national health care system in place that shared the risk across millions of people...fear of communism the corporate insurance raiders sold us, as they picked our pockets.

[Flying Dream Blues]

57. I think they plan to ignore the people beating on the door,

if the last 6 years are any indication.

[abluelady]

21. He Doesn't Care About You or Me

When are we going to start a revolution against this horrible leader?

[area51]

34. "There's no tax break in the world..."

donco6 said:

"There's no tax break in the world that can replace medical treatment when you need it."

Well said.

A healthy workforce is a productive workforce. And isn't that one of the main bitchings of the nazi party (that people need to be more productive)?

[okieinpain]

59. actually I been wondering why the federal government can't

be the one to do the shopping around. wouldn't it be better if the employer, and the employee both contributed to a universal health plan that was negoiated by the fed government. employee's could select the plan that suited their pocket book the best just like you do now if you're working.

My wife use to work at the local hospital and she would talk all the time about people who get public assistance, that would call for an ambulance to come and get them because they did not have a ride to the hospital, but the only thing wrong with them is they had a cold.

[donco6]

65. Hillary thought so. And look what heppened.

Universal HC would spread the risk as far as it can go, which would be great. But - shudder - it's SOCIALISM! Gasp!

Can't have that.

[okieinpain]

68. yeah no kidding, what was I thinking. :~)

[raccoon]

70. You're right about that. I know a man who couldn't get individual

health insurance although he could've paid the premiums--he's quite well-off--but he couldn't get coverage because his cholesterol was too high.

Also, insurance companies can and do include riders to individual health insurance policies, stating that they won't cover problems relating to a pre-existing condition(s), not EVER.

[Coastie for Truth]

14. Yer doin a heck of a job Crissie (Yer doin a heck of a job Brownie)

And Crissie is going to mis-manage the transition. "Yer doin' a heck of a job Crissie"

Rear Admiral Cristina Beato
Acting Assistant Secretary for Health, Department of Health and Human Services

<>

In June 2004, Cristina Beato admitted to her hometown newspaper that she hadn't paid much attention to the details of her resumé. That's too bad, because those silly little details seem to have stalled her confirmation for assistant secretary for health for over two years now. Beato said she earned a master's of public health in occupational medicine from the University of Wisconsin (but the university doesn't even offer that degree). She claimed to be "one of the principal leaders who revolutionized medical education in American universities by implementing the Problem Based learning curriculum" (but the curriculum was developed while Beato was still a medical student). She listed "medical attaché" to the American Embassy in Turkey as a job she held in 1986 (but that position didn't exist until 1995). She also boasted that she had "established" the University of New Mexico's occupational health clinic (but the clinic existed before she was hired, and there was even another medical director before her). For her part, Beato has offered a simple explanation: English is her third language, after French and her native Spanish, and sometimes the language barrier is just too much to handle. How does one say "pants on fire" in Spanish?

[Benhurst]

35. How can you not trust a woman

who looks like Leonid Breshnev?

[MissWaverly]

36. she has a fudged resume, another crony appointment

[Coastie for Truth]

16. Now you see why the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy savaged Hillary,

and why Rick Santorum - with Frist and Pharmaceutical Money - savaged former Pennsylvania Senator Harris Wofford (one of our true Progressives).

The Business Model of Health Insurance-

Cherry Pick the Healthiest - and call it "Actuarially Sound Underwriting"
Take Your Money
Invest It in Businesses of the CEO's Friends
Deny Your Claim and Make You Sue Them To Get Your Money Back.
Demonize You And Call Your Law Suit To Get Your Money Back "Frivolous."

[MissWaverly]

19. they could not do it w/o a lapdog media

[boobooday]

17. For crying out loud

Literally.

What about those of us who the private sector labels "uninsurable?"

I guess I was supposed to save up enough money to live with my chronic disease by the time I was diagnosed at 14.

How irresponsible of me.

[MissWaverly]

24. the health of our society depends on the well being of all

Hitler had social darwinism at its most efficient, did they obtain a perfect society
NO. We don't want to go down that road EVER. The only way is to have a health system
that works for all, if they can build nuclear weapons at the cost of millions to rot
in some nuclear silo, they can finance your health care costs. Every day, you and
every American pays this country back a million times just by being who we are.

[boobooday]

25. You got that right

When I'm healthy, I'm very productive. And if I have regular health care, I can continue to be productive, rather than becoming disabled and REALLY getting expensive.

[MissWaverly]

28. they DON'T get it

America is run by the little guy, he's the air traffic controller, the guy checking your
IV pump at the hospital, the guy tightening the screws on your new set of wheels. The
RW's are constantly bitching about what the little guy gets while they vacuum up every perk.
If the little guy gets no benefits how motivated is he to do a good job, whether it's filling
your prescription or driving your taxi.

[salin]

18. but bush told us High Health Care Costs were ALL about trial lawyers.

:eyes:

[MissWaverly]

39. for someone who is continually breaking the law

he seems to have an obsession with lawyers, I am embarassed that we have a top general
(Miller) taking the 5th in the investigation at Abu Ghraib.

[Coastie for Truth]

22. MSM (Reuters) Link

[salin]

23. frankly this can not be read any way but... bush wants to impoverish

the middle class.

The cost of catastrophic coverage is not as cheap as is being suggested; the amount needed to be saved - is more than many folks who have health ins from employers can afford to put away - and what can be saved isn't probably enough to pay for maintenance level health care, let alone a minor health crisis (even breaking an arm would become very costly/burdomsome).

[MissWaverly]

26. would people have real coverage or not

what about the "Act of God" clause where some insurers don't cover certain things, it would
please the "fundies" to have certain medical conditions labeled immoral and not insurable.
(like - sexually transmitted diseases)

[salin]

27. or... all I can afford is catastrophic coverage

and while having this coverage I develop a 'condition'. Later I can afford to buy better coverage - but they won't cover the now "preexisting condition" - so I am stuck with the bare coverage of catastrophic.

[MissWaverly]

30. exactly

not only bare coverage but high deductibles that make basic care impossible, and what
happens when they have children?

[salin]

31. I really can't imagine their being able to convince even their 'base'

that losing their health insurance through work is a good and noble thing.

[MissWaverly]

33. what tax incentive could there be that would make it worth it

My employer pays 1/3 of my health insurance costs and I don't see how the government would give an equivalent of that, not to mention the risk of higher deductibles and higher co-payments. My best guess is that people will run with no coverage, which basically means that you must become a begger if you have a health crisis.

[Coastie for Truth]

40. Back in Pittsburgh in the 1970's an insuror invoked

the "Act of God Clause" - so the claimant sued the Roman Catholic Diocese, three Protestant Churches, and three Jewish Temples.

[MissWaverly]

41. that's a great posting

[Frustratedlady]

54. Thank you for the link!

I have a diehard * supporter I try to keep informed. :-)

The State of the Union message will be an interesting "listen"--if, for no other reason than to see how many proposals hit close to home and get Joe 6-Pack's attention. Out of the gate, requiring Joe to buy his own insurance should do the trick.

Let's see....2006..2007...2008..I wonder how many other proposals he can invent to further erode our economy? What's left?

[Julius Civitatus]

37. Screwing the working class, one new law at a time. n/t

[MissWaverly]

38. it's beginning to feel more and more like ancient Rome

[betterdeadthanred]

44. How out of touch can he possibly be?

Insurance companies get to pick and choose who they cover on a private policy. THAT'S why people have no incentative to look for other coverage, not to mention the cost! People who have had bouts with cancer and other illnesses need not apply. I have to work only because my husband cannot get coverage any other way except through me and my employer health plan. Bush, as usual, has no clue what it's like out in the real world.

[MissWaverly]

45. and he says that he doesn't live in a bubble, HA!

[MadHound]

46. One thing I think we're missing here

This is another tax break for the rich. The rich don't get the company plan, no HMOs, HSAs or other such dreck. They've got the money to either buy expansive plans, or self insure. They buy the premium plan, paying down a $50,000 insurance bill each year. What's a %50,000 dollar tab to them. It is one cool mill, stashed away in a tax free muny bond somewhere, churning out the money to pick up the tab at 5.1% annually, as I said, tax free.

If they self insure, well, another ten thousand or so forms a nice tidy little insurance company that they fund at $50,000, cue the tax free muny bonds.

This plan is nothing but a bonus check given to the rich, simply because they are rich. Most ordinary Americans can't afford private insurance, or either refused insurance. That is something that never happens to the rich, they are never refused insurance. There is always another cool mill stashed away in a tax free muny bond.

Thus, the rich become richer, the poor are left to suffer and die, when is America going to wake up and want a revolution?

[MissWaverly]

52. the rich have their pick of global health care

what is paying out of pocket to them on health care, another tax write off

[Toots]

49. I don't think employers should have to pay for peoples health care

To maintain the health and welfare of the nation is the government's responsibility and the USA is the most irresponsible country in the Western World..

[guidod]

53. Disagree...

Do you dislike Unions as well?

[EndElectoral]

61. Fine..then institute National Health Care

[MissWaverly]

64. with what , we are so broke

other nations are predicting US will default on foreign loans in March. This is similar
to the social security ploy, remove the employer contribution and let the taxpayer
invest and George will continue to suck up every surplus penny for his private projects.
The problem is not social security system, it's not the taxpayers/investors, it's what
the government is doing with the money that's the problem.

[Tsiyu]

69. Did you ever stop to think how insane it is

that our Congresspeople have health coverage, pensions and are paid far above a living wage, yet most politicians ( ** included) balk at paying the average Joe a mere $7 or $8 an hour minimum wage? And forget health care. The people WE elect do not think WE deserve it.

What the hell is wrong with these people? What the hell is wrong with us because we accept it!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

72. well I'm glad to see crap like this pisses off other ghosts

Nice to meet another restless angry spirit. It's enough to make you want to go poltergeist isn't it? I've been overlooking this board all day, thinking it was ludicrous. I figured not even Dur Fuhrer would do this but once again, I underestimated the potential for a president or dictator to go totally insane. First they kill national health-care, then we get this. What's next? Is this the nazi idea of a right-to-die, even when we don't really want to go there just yet?

[Tsiyu]

73. I think it's high time for us to haunt some folks!

Nice to meet you, too :hi:

[Glidescube]

74. Clinton was pretty bad too

Form what I understood they wanted to consider what your compnay paid four your medical as part of your taxable wage. They wanted to tax your medical benefit so illegal aliens could get free asprins!

ALl governments are crooks when it comes to taxing the middle class.

[rucky]

75. maybe americans should just stop working

a week-long Nationwide "sick in" would send the corportists into severe money withdrawl.

[Glidescube]

76. Ive often thought about that

A 5 day national strike where NOONE showed up for work and demanded change be done before anyone went back to work.