Gov.-elect Kaine (D-VA) to sign anti-LGBT measure

[IndianaGreen]

Some Democrats may love LGBT money, but they sure don't care about LGBT rights!

Va. House approves gay marriage ban amendment

Less severe language rejected

By ELIZABETH WEILL-GREENBERG | Jan 13, 5:27 PM

The Virginia House voted 73 to 22 to approve a constitutional amendment banning equal marriage rights for gays. The proposal must be voted on by the Senate and signed by Gov.-elect Tim Kaine (D) before it can go to voters in November.

Kaine spokeswoman Delacey Skinner said that the governor-elect will sign the bill to call for a referendum. Kaine supports the amendment and opposes civil unions, she said. She added that he is interested in discussing measures “to make sure people can still be able to contract with each other.”

However, efforts to limit the scope of the vaguely worded amendment were defeated. Del. Kristen J. Amundson’s (D-District 44) amendment, which received only 35 votes, would have eliminated all language except for: “Only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions.”

Del. Vivian Watts’ (D-District 39) amendment was also rejected by a vote of 36 to 60. She proposed including a clarification that the amendment would not change “any other right, benefit, obligation or legal status pertaining to persons not married.”

The failure of those amendments shows the true motive behind the bill, said Deborah Sherman, Watts’ legislative aide.

http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=4540

[ISUGRADIA]

1. This is something that better come back and haunt him as he starts

his White House campaign.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Are you thinking about Warner?

[...of J.Temperance]

4. Snap :) Posted the same thing at the same time! n/t

[...of J.Temperance]

3. Mark Warner is going to run for President NOT Tim Kaine

Governor Kaine is now in charge...not Mark Warner.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. And from what I've read

Warner IS for LGBT rights and is pro-choice as well.

[...of J.Temperance]

8. Yes that's correct...my top choice for 2008 is Warner/Clark

Heck, that'd be a good ticket.

[Herman47]

12. Clark/Warner...

...would be even better ;-)

[Clark2008]

56. Exactly. The person with the most experience as commander

in chief should lead the ticket. Let the manager manage the senate.

[nickshepDEM]

29. Correct, Warner vetoed an anti-GLBT amendment a few years ago...

Here is a link with the details...

http://www.vapartisans.org/pr041804a.htm

[formernaderite]

53. I think he is also against gay marriage

although he made some sort of statement supporting civil unions. He's walking the line...I am shocked that Kaine, Warners protogee is also not in support of civil unions.

[wakeme2008]

7. But from what the Dems in Va say

Warner is more right wing than Kaine.

[...of J.Temperance]

9. I actually think that Kaine is more conservative than Warner

Kaine is anti-abortion for one thing...but I would still have voted for him despite that.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. I think so too

And I think what matters is whether or not they agree with Roe v Wade or not. Same thing with Harry Reid. I wouldn't ever have an abortion myself (as of now of course) but I'd protect Roe v Wade as much as I could.

[wiley]

45. Kaine was pretty upfront

about what he called his religious beliefs and Christianity. If this is what he meant, we were had. the no contracts things is bullsh*t.

[ISUGRADIA]

10. Ooops...my bad...saw VA gov and put Warner in my head for some

reason

[oneoftheboys]

64. Actually, If he didn't sign it,

it could potentially harm Warner's bid for the presidency. This stuff is getting old though.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. What??

Ugh! Veto the damn thing!

[David Dunham]

11. No veto. The vast majority of Virginians oppose gay marriage.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Kaine also opposes civil unions

What would Kaine favor regarding LGBTs? How about requiring a pink triangle patch on every gay and lesbian?

[ruggerson]

14. So what?

the vast majority of Americans supported bans on interracial marriage too.

There are some things you do because it is right. Civil rights is not debatable, I don't care how many people support or oppose them.

We do NOT live in a majoritarian democracy. We live in a democratic REPUBLIC and the Founding Fathers were very clear about minority rights.

Kaine should be vetoing this bill. It is discriminatory and morally reprehensible.

[David Dunham]

20. There is no constitutional "right" to gay marriage except in Mass.

[ruggerson]

24. Re read the 14th amendment

what part of EQUAL PROTECTION are you having a problem with?

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[David Dunham]

25. The US Supreme Court will not read the 14th Amendment that way.

Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and others will not expand constitutional protection to gay marriage. I think they should, but they will never do it.

[IndianaGreen]

26. and the Democrats won't filibuster Alito either!

Like I said, they love our money, but they really don't care about our rights of citizenship.

[ruggerson]

27. Because the court is full of rightwing bigots

And yet it did read it precisely that way in Lawrence V Texas and in Romer V Evans.

Read both of them.

[oneoftheboys]

65. Sorry, there is no right to gay marriage in that.

Straight men can't marry other men either.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Exactly

Al Gore said a great quote at his 2000 convention: "Sometimes you have to do what's right and not what's popular."

[ruggerson]

15. Kaine does not deserve any more support from Democrats

But I'm sure we won't hear the hue and cry we do over Lieberman and Hillary, because, hey, after all, it's just human rights in THIS COUNTRY.

:sarcasm:

[EST]

16. So wtf is this rascal doing, flying the donkey flag?

My own self examinations that led me to declaring as a progressive/liberal democrat were strong on concepts such as 'mind your own business, live and let live, passionate compassion, do unto thy neighbor the way he wants to be done to, unless there is too much conflict with other important principles.'
A huge article of faith is--you don't encourage or advocate the passing of laws that urinate all over the franchises of fellow seekers.

I haven't tailgated Va politics, but I thought this guy was clean. What gives?
Did he misinterpret some road signs on the march to neocon Wetdreamland?
Maybe he forgot to read the memo or didn't receive the updates to that pesky "Donkey users guide," around here, somewhere, that starts out in commandment #1-Don't f**k over other people!
:kick:

[madfloridian]

17. His religious views will be clearly seen during his tenure.

There should have been no surprise to find out that he opposes civil unions for domestic partners. It has been well known that he would carry his religious views into office. I just don't think Virginians should be surprised about it is what I am saying. This article is from CBS, originally from The American Prospect.

We are fighting the same kind of religious views here in our area about keeping domestic partners from civil rights, and also fighting about keeping women from contraceptive rights. However, in our community it is the Republicans doing it, not the Democrats...at least not yet.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/24/opinion/main682882.shtml

Meet Tim Kaine.

His views on abortion are roughly in line with those of George W. Bush. He thinks John Kerry spent too much time on the campaign trail talking about windsurfing and not enough time talking about God.

And the Democratic National Committee (DNC) is spending an unprecedented $5 million to help him get elected governor of Virginia.
(My note: promised by McAuliffe, request honored)

Kaine, who spoke to me by phone after attending a pair of Palm Sunday services at Baptist churches in Petersburg, Virginia, says that his own strong Catholic faith was his inspiration for entering politics, and that he believes Democrats in general have done a poor job of reaching out to religious Americans.

In addition to actively talking about their own faith, Kaine says, Democrats need to temper their comments about other peoples' faith.

"The second thing that Democrats have to do better on is not attacking the 'religious right,'" he said. "I think that has been a standard bogeyman that Democrats have often used in campaigns, including campaigns in Virginia. If somebody advances an idea or position that's wrong, then attack them for having a bad idea. But they are not wrong because they are religious.

"When Democrats kind of cavalierly attack the religious right or go after Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, our candidates have sent the signal to a lot of religious people, 'Well, I guess they are not interested in me.' And I think this includes a lot of people who would fit very naturally within the Democratic Party."

I guess he sees Robertson and Falwell in a different light of legitimacy than I do.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Perhaps Kaine also believes that G-d is punishing Sharon with a stroke

Once you start going down the path to religious absolutism, there are no limits to how low a person will sink.

[David Dunham]

19. Guys: Polls show most Democrats oppose gay marriage

Gay marriage is a political loser for Dems. It's civil unions at most that will win public approval.

In addition, the US Supreme Court, especially with Roberts and Alito, will never hold that there is a right to gay marriage.

[IndianaGreen]

22. Most Germans also opposed Jews, Gypsies, and gays

Perhaps Democrats will also endorse the building of crematorias to take care of the ungodly vermint! After all, Democrats were at one time the strongest defenders of segregation, and it was a Democratic President that refused to grant sanctuary to European Jews fleeing Hitler.

We haven't made any progress in the last century!

[CTLawGuy]

51. Im glad these people weren't advising President Johnson

in 1964. Otherwise, where would African-Americans be?

[ruggerson]

23. Uh, David

I disagree with your idea that polls trump moral obligations to human rights, but putting that aside for the moment:

Polls ALSO show that vast majorities (over 65%) of the public support CIVIL UNIONS.

What this amendment in VA does is deny same sex couples both marriage AND civil unions.

Got it?

[madfloridian]

30. He opposes civil unions...giving rights.

That is a bad position, and most Americans do NOT have that position.

[ruggerson]

32. Exactly

if we're going to be poll driven, then we should be supporting civil unions to the hilt.

Most americans support them.

[ulysses]

38. this is not a fucking polling issue.

Could we, just for once, do the right thing without running to some goddamned pollster? :mad:

[ruggerson]

21. Memo to Tim Kaine

BIGOTRY disguised as "religious beliefs" is still bigotry.

You can dress up a pig, put lipstick on it and call it Monique. But it's still a pig.

[Gloria]

46. You know, I'm getting pretty sick of this "sacrosanct" crap

about religions that HURT people....Why the hell do we have to be cowtowing to "religion" of these far right freaks??

They've got their churches...why don't they go there and let everyone else alone? And why do Dem politicians have to cave and pander to those that are especially hypocritical?? Since when are the followers of Robertson and Falwell the type of folks that would be interested in becoming Democrats??

Robertson and Falwell are crooks and prey on the frightened and ill-informed and milk them of their $$. They talk hate...and Kaine says we should play nicey-nice?? They should be CALLED OUT....they should be CORNERED.

Kaine. UGH!!!

[AX10]

28. I get a bad feeling that Kaine may start to pander to the "Christian" Righ

"The second thing that Democrats have to do better on is not attacking the 'religious right,"

WTF is this supposed to mean? These "people" are a threat to America. The "Christian" right wants the US to be a Chrisian only nation.

[jonnyblitz]

31. what a fucking asshole.

he is the LAST type of Democrat we need in this day and age.

[EST]

39. Face it --we been had.

The idea of infiltrating the other party and planning on only one action packed term is certainly not unique.

[Wind Dancer]

33. I'm so tired of dems not embracing equal rights.

We live in the 21st century yet treat certain members of society with prejudice. We need a leader willing to speak out and claim that EVERYBODY has the right to marry if they so choose. This makes me so angry.........................



:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


The only reason certain people are against gay marriage is because they have been brainwashed by religious dogma. The others are ignorant, pure and simple.

[jonnyblitz]

34. I am so tired of DUers giving these DEMS a pass on it

because it "doesn't poll well"..

[David Dunham]

36. Sadly, no pro-gay marriage Dem can get elected Gov. in any state

That is certainly the way it seems.

[jonnyblitz]

40. so we should just abandon it all?

:shrug:

[Wind Dancer]

41. Ditto! n/t

[dsc]

42. He said he would do this

and he is keeping his word. I am by no means happy, and I didn't give money to him due to his position on this, but he is doing what he said he would do. To give him some credit, he did sign the Warner order prohibiting employment discrimination by the state against LGBT citizens. That is a big deal and he deserves credit for that. To those saying he is pro life, he said repeatedly he wouldn't sign laws banning abortion or restricting it beyond what is already restricted in VA.

[Gloria]

47. It's the pandering to the Christian "right" that is most nauseating....

there is NO NEED to enable them. They are a threat. He is doing what the DC Dems have been doing.

[dsc]

49. I don't think he is pandering to the Christian right

I think he wrongly, but honestly, believes that gays should be second class citizens.

[jackpan1260]

43. He is still a 1000 times better than Kilgore

but this is unfortunate. Warner was much more LGBT friendly than Kaine will be.

If blue states like Michigan and Oregon can overwhelmingly pass gay marriage bans, it is fairly obvious that they will easily ban it in a state like Virginia.

America has come along way towards accepting LGBTs, and we obviously have a ways to go. It is going to take some time.

[IndianaGreen]

44. The Hell with waiting for a better time!

The bigotry and prejudice is religious based and it is that theology that we must confront head on and attack it relentlessly. They won't rest until they turn this country into a Christian version of Taliban Afghanistan. We must attack them and defeat them for they are enemies of us all.

[jackpan1260]

52. I am not saying we should just sit around

I am saying that I don't expect Americans to embrace LGBTs in a few short months. It is going to take many years.

[ruggerson]

55. Supporting civil unions is a moderate compromise

Opposing them is radical rightwing bigotry.

[Telly Savalas]

57. So in the meantime the position is

"you may not like my support of same sex marriage, but you're going to have to hold your nose and choose it because it's either Democrats like me who will provide prosperity, security, and honesty in government or Republicans who will wreck the economy, send us to war on false pretenses, and promote corruption."

So long as the electorate chooses the latter, our problems run a fuck of a lot deeper than having a position on same-sex marriage that doesn't poll well. We might as well stand up for what's right.

On edit: let me add, I do agree with you that we have a long ways to go towards acceptance. We are making progress though. Same-sex marriage wasn't an issue 20 years ago because things were so backwards then that it wasn't even given serious consideration. Slowly but surely we'll get there, but we'll get there a lot faster if our leaders will take a positive stand.

[ruggerson]

58. Even worse

is his opposition to civil unions, a position contrary to the mainstream of this country.

I mean, hell, even Bush has said he supports civil unions (while of course doing jack shit to make them a reality).

Kaine's opposition to a moderate position like civil unions is a dealbreaker. He should not receive any Democratic support.

[jackpan1260]

59. So you would have prefered that people withhold support of Kaine

even if it meant Kilgore winning?

I will never make the mistake that Nader 2000 voters did.

There is a HUGE difference between Kaine and Kilgore.

[ruggerson]

61. I probably would have voted for Kaine as the lesser of two evils

Or not voted at all.

But that doesn't mean I will lend him active support or celebrate his victory. And Dems should pressure him to change his reactionary position on civil unions and he should veto this const. amendment.

I was unaware that this was his position until recently. It's very discouraging that in 2006 a Democrat would hold these views.

[killbotfactory]

48. Whatever happened to principled politicians?

Oh yeah, they get slandered and smeared as crazy, like Dean.

[dsc]

50. Kaine is principled

I don't like some of his prinicples but it is hard to call someone unprincipled when he states that he is going to sign a bill when he is elected and then he does it. I think his flip flops on the death penalty and abortion make a better case for being unprincipled.

[ruggerson]

54. If you can call bigots principled

[dsc]

62. I didn't say they were good principles

but to use another example Jesse Helms was a principled man. I surely think he was a terrible bigot but he stood by his bigotry no m matter the cost. One can be principled and wrong.

[ruggerson]

63. Very true n/t

[rogue emissary]

60. Is there any way for VA Dems to fight this in the senate? n/t

[KakistocracyHater]

66. it ought to be law that they must

reveal how much it cost the taxpayers to get such things proposed & passed.