Are There A Lot Of "Closet Homophobes" Amongst Progressives?

[ruggerson]

Here on this forum, I see many people perpetually outraged by human rights violations around the world.

And yet an ongoing human rights tragedy is occurring right here in America, in their own back yard.

Gay people are still being thrown out of their jobs simply for being gay.

Gay people are losing their children, even biological ones, to homophobic parents, grandparents, ex spouses or other family members who go to court to sue for custody.

Gay people are facing an onslaught of "constitutional amendments" designed to prevent them from having equal access to marriage laws and family protections in the United States.

Gay people are bashed daily, and are the single highest incidence of hate crimes in the entire country.

Gay people are viciously used as a "wedge issue" by amoral politicians catering to "religious" bigotry.

Gay people are denied the right to fight in the armed services of their own country. They are essentially denied the birthright of American citizenship: to defend one's own nation.

Gay couples are denied about 400 rights and privileges granted by federal statutes which legally protect heterosexual families and grant them economic succor.

The list is endless.

In writing this, I am in no way diminishing the efforts and bravery of the millions of heterosexuals who have valiantly stood up for their gay brothers and sisters in the face of this onslaught.

But, they are not nearly enough.

Many people who get very involved with the issues of human rights violations overseas seem to completely ignore the violations that are occurring right here in the United States.

Where is the passion to fight the Republican war of hetero-supremacy that is being waged daily in this nation?

Where is the anger that abhorrent human rights violations are occurring right here in your own country?

Where is the OUTRAGE?

[terrya]

1. Thank you for posting this.

I couldn't or wouldn't change a word of this. Thank you.

[savemefromdumbya]

2. People pretend that gays don't exist

It is now worse for gay people than ever and it will get worse if this administration lasts any longer

[TallahasseeGrannie]

26. DU BURP DELETE

[TallahasseeGrannie]

27. Really?

Worse than ever? I am really surprised by that statement. I know so many gay couples in my everyday life.... they are portrayed more and more positively in the media. I would have thought things were improving.

But I'm looking at it from the outside.

[savemefromdumbya]

41. I think

with this government gays will be more and more penalised.

[ulysses]

3. I wouldn't doubt that there are

but I'm curious about what the threshhold is for being considered homophobic by this measure. I'm outraged by a whole lot of things these days, human rights violations against gay folks being one. Should I not talk about other problems?

[ulysses]

6. I just saw what this was in response to.

Sorry. Carry on.

[jonnyblitz]

4. whenever somebody suggests that our issues be abandoned

because "whichever" gay issue doesn't poll well, I have to wonder about them...:shrug:

[radio4progressives]

43. I'm curious about if the LGBT Community is confronting Log Cabin Repukes

on these matters.. where the fuck are they? Log Cabin Repukes make me furious.

my daughter who is a professional and a Lesbian, is getting married this spring with her partner of six years who is also a professional and they each are very progressive, and they of course do vote.

but neither one of them are activists and that just bugs the hell out of me, because if no one else knows more about how high the stakes are - it should be them.

(sigh) end of rant, now..

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. I have thought a lot about this

and all I can come up with is that less than half a century ago homosexual behavior was illegal, prosecuted and shameful. We were literally taught as children in school and at home that homosexuals were either immoral degenerates or if your parents were fairly progressive, psychologically ill.

We have come a long way since then, but that level of social change is not going to be complete until the older generations are gone. It is an enormous paradigm shift.

Please don't think I am saying the present state is okay. I'm not. I'm just saying that the social mill grinds slowly.

But there is also another element to it, and we all know what that is. Many people have homosexual experiences as adolescents and while their dominant sexuality may well be for the opposite sex, this experience is so devastating that it leads to a life of fear of exposure...truly homophobia. Why if it happened when "I was 15, how do I know it won't come back now that I'm 30 and destroy my marriage and make me into someone I don't recognize?" I don't know how we go about eliminating that aspect of homophobia. I guess years and years of acceptance that allows people to forgive themselves for sexual exploration.

But what do I know? I'm just a red state rube anyway.


tg

[wiley]

21. I have gone on at length about this only to be ignored.

There is really no venue for straight men and women to support gay men and lesbians without being "attacked" as untrustworthy people who somehow support sex between adults and children. Considering that most children are molested by heterosexual relatives or acquaintances (including their parents) you won't see any big rush to change things. Sexuality insecurity is still the biggest problem for heterosexual men with regards to gay people. Unfortunately, it is a gay problem because heterosexuals are not a minority and people hold incorrect and just plain stupid concepts in their heads for decades. It is no excuse for the persecution and prosecution of anything resembling a same sex event or affair, let alone a relationship.

DU is just not the most supportive place for this issue.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. Well, now..

I have to say that the concept of sex with children is not one I personally attach to the gay issues. I'm not saying that I am some sort of socially enlightened guru..it just hasn't really occurred to me. Even though the "master of acolytes" at our church, who was married and had a very high power visible job in the community, was convicted of molesting young boys. One of the children had to have surgery after the molestation. He was one of the church acolytes. But I just think he was a sick pedophile and I really don't attribute it to his being gay. (after prison, he came out and divorced and became active in gay rights issues)

I'm optimistic that this situation will even out as the older generations pass on.

[ruggerson]

30. I think the generational thing is a huge part of it

And you're right. Over the next ten, twenty, thirty years, this is bound to move forward, as the generation that had the bigotry inculcated in them die off. I just saw a fascinating poll which showed that high school and college age kids take a very middle line approach to abortion (most want to preserve Roe, but most want to make more restrictions) and yet have very liberal attitudes on gay rights (something like 75% support full gay marriage equality). I think those attitudes reflect a generation that has grown up KNOWING gay people instead of having them as these whispered about boogey men that prior generations had.

[stevedeshazer]

7. I can only speak for myself

I'm straight, but I stand with my gay brothers and sisters. And yes, I'm outraged.

All I can say is that there are so many things to be outraged about that this is but one (major) item on the list. It's ALL connected. That this is being used as a wedge to drive us apart is wrong, yet it's just another symptom of the war on us all.

If you do not conform to the American Taliban's way of thinking, then you are their enemy - and I am included. We're all in this together, my friend. I'm sorry you're hated more than me, but be sure that I and all the rest of us non-Bushbots are hated plenty.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

9. a better question might be

Are there a lot of closet homosexuals with low self-esteem among ultra-conservatives? Why are they so concerned and uptight about consensual sex between adults and who others marry?

[Telly Savalas]

22. That's a good question too, but we first gotta clean our own house.

[jonnyblitz]

12. I appreciate people like you LOTS. :)

sometimes I only see the glass half empty and forget about all the many here that stand with us against the tide of "majority" opinion. I notice the many straight DUers who are with us as well as the ones that look at us as a political liability but great for campaign contributions and votes. :hi:

[stevedeshazer]

18. Until we ALL have equal rights, none of us do.

Your struggle is mine. :hi:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

32. exactly

Unity is the key to success. We must refuse to focus on divisive issues, which caused the Democratic Party to lose all those seats and allowed the Republicans to steal basic freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights... I have personal issues too but I refuse to promote them. Everyone is a minority in some way but some refuse to present the reasons why they don't enjoy the same freedoms as mainstream America because their minority causes might be divisive.

[ruggerson]

13. Thanks

you are very appreciated. And you're correct, a lot of issues are interconnected. My beef is with those who constantly rail about human rights overseas, but seem to be disconnected from the fact that they are occurring right here at home.

When Bush yaps about bringing "liberty" to Iraqis and others, I assure you it has special resonance in the tens of millions of gay American households. Here is a man who has helped spearhead incredibly repressive bigotry in his OWN country, talking about freedom in another?

[stevedeshazer]

19. I can sure see all that about Bush & Co.

It is the height of hypocrisy. To him, "freedom" is just a means to an end rather than reality.

Carry on. :patriot:

[stillcool]

8. We have been Marginalized...

into no man's land. If you are not a white, christian, republican, you do not count. We will be seeing less, and less of ourselves on the public stage. Only those with the 'correct' attributes will be deemed acceptable for public display. The time to hit the brakes is long gone. We have crossed the border into an alternate state.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

28. Let me add another one to your list

Fat.

I am white, Christian, educated and FAT. Very fat. And let me tell you, I really don't count.

But I don't do victim well so off I go and pretend I do count.

[ruggerson]

29. Of course you count

and your words on most subjects are profound and thought provoking. You count more than you might even realize.

:toast:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

31. Thank you so much

but it probably is because you can't see me. That's one reason why I love the Internets!

But in real life with many people (not my family, students or colleagues) I am just invisible. But that's okay. You can get away with a whole lot when you are invisible.

[MuseRider]

35. You don't count?

You do to me and to a whole lot of us who love to read your thoughts. Damn, that is so sad. I have never understood those attitudes. Your final sentence, "But I don't do victim well so off I go and pretend I do count." just cracks me up. That is one healthy attitude and one of the reasons I like your posts so much. You've got that certain fighting spirit that always inspires.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

36. Thank you very much

maybe my fatness helps with that fighting spirit. I'll never give up. I am constantly working Weight Watchers and trying to move a bit more. But I'm long past the self-hate. I just want a bit of mobility back.

Your words are kind.

[MuseRider]

38. For me it is being

female in the men's world of farming and horse ranching in Kansas. I learned really fast how to stick up for myself and not back down, it taught me more in a couple of years than the previous 40 years I had lived. Self hate? Had it, lost it and will never go back.

Not really kind but just human. We all have our stuff but some have stuff that shows and that makes it even more difficult. :hug: fellow fighter!

[stillcool]

40. Ah...Grannie

by marginalized I do not mean 'victim' in any way, shape or form. We are all perfectly perfect with all our imperfections. What I refer to is the marketing of the right-wings fantasy society, being portrayed to the exclusion of all else. The 'Donna Reed Show' personified. Cookie-cutter mentality. It's appropriate that the fright-wings belief system is memorized without thought, and regurgitated with exact cadence. The heart, the head, and the soul are empty.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

45. Well I think I pretty much

understood what you are saying. What I was saying is that there is no room for "me" in the Donna Reed world, either.

And yet..he's the clinker. I grew up in the world and I sometimes yearn for it. Not the all-white aspect of it, because race is not an issue to me. What I miss is the strength of the nuclear family. And I don't mean it needs to be Mother, father, two.5 kids. But I miss the days when someone was home during to day to MAKE the home. I didn't have that when I raised my kids. I had to work. I'm glad I had the opportunity to use my skills and work...but sometimes I wish I had the time and energy to put on an apron and make dinner from a cookbook.

And boy, did I ever just get off track! No repsonse necessary...I'm rambling.

[xchrom]

10. no argument from me.

[mzmolly]

11. We need attention paid to stories like this. The media is not

likely to lend a sympathetic ear, thus gay issues are ... "forgotten."

:(

[radio4progressives]

14. you have got to be kidding...

i live in one of the most progressive communities in the country. The San Francisco Bay Area - progressives here are not closet homophobes.

how is it that you are unable to gage that there IS extreme outrage, and that there is SO MUCH TO BE OUTRAGED ABOUT, homophobia is only ONE issue of a list of MANY issues that progressives are OUTRAGED about.

Liberuls on the other hand, is another story. I know a few libruls who are homophobic and they're out in the open about it.

but not real progressives.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

37. I've never been to that area

and actually never been west of the Mississippi. Well, except when in N.O.

Are there ANY Republicans in that area at all?

What's a "liberul"? I'm worried I might be one!

[radio4progressives]

44. yeah, there are a lot of republicans unfortunately...

but at least progressives still largely out number them.. just on the coastal regions. in the interior valleys throughout the state, that's another story. color the interiors very RED. but it's also less populated than the coastal regions.

[Mz Pip]

15. Lack of success

in overturning BushCo policies does not translate to closet homophobia.

I am outraged on a daily basis by what Bush does. But other than what I am doing - writing, voting, protesting - what else am I supposed to do??? Now that there isn't enough change happening, I am now being accused of being a closet homophobe??

Tell me what I am supposed to do to convince you that I am not a closet homophobe? I wish I had a magic wand to make BushCo disappear. But I don't.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[ruggerson]

16. I'm not talking about lack of success

I'm talking about silence in the face of these repressive constitutional amendments which are happening all over the South and midwest as we speak, in effect legislating Jim Crow second tier status for gays and lesbians. It's a moral travesty RIGHT HERE in our own nation. Do you see liberals marching in the streets against this? I don't.

They DO march in the street over Iraq and other issues and RIGHTLY SO. I just think some, by no means not all, people need to wake up and smell the coffee in their own dang back yard.

[Neshanic]

17. "We will call you when we need you"....the DLC. Otherwise,

shut up and know your place, you gay things you. When it's time to throw you under the bus for 2008, we will give you a kiss and a shove.

It's not that we don't want you to have rights like any other human being, it's just that we "Hillaryize" every issue. This involves skating on a fence and waiting for the right to frame every issue, then defensively triangulate, wait again, then amaze the right with our stupendous stupidity of never clearly and simply stating what we believe and sticking to it.

[jackpan1260]

20. Oregon and Michigan passed gay marriage bans but voted for Kerry

so there must be a few people who consider themselves democrats but are against gay marriage.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Not just "closet homophobes."

There are many closeted bigots amongst progressives.

[area51]

24. I hear you.

As a hetero, it just amazes me that some straights think they have the right to vote on gay people's rights.

I don't think gays should have to pay equal taxes b/c they're not given full equality.

The U.S. holds itself up to be a beacon of equality, but we're not. We're a pretty backward nation, denying equal opportunity, equal rights, & allowing people to die of treatable medical diseases since we don't have universal healthcare.

The lie of equality is like Hollywood-packaged propaganda.

[MuseRider]

33. An interesting tidbit.

The GLBT rights group on whose board I used to sit here in Kansas (of all places) was almost entirely hetero. In fact, before we disbanded to become the city chapter for the larger statewide group that we helped set up, one of the things we were trying to do was recruit more GLBT people for the board. I understand what you are saying perfectly and do not disagree with any of it but I thought you might like to know that little bit.

[Wind Dancer]

34. We MUST embrace equal rights as a party and not run from it.

We are allowing the other party to frame the debate by ignoring equal rights for EVERY person in this country. There is no reason why the Dems should not embrace the gay community and expose the hateful propaganda spread by Abramoff and other Repubs. It's shameful.

How Abramoff Funded The Anti-Gay Agenda


http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=9...

[formernaderite]

39. If you think heterosupremacy is just a repub issue...you'd be

mistaken. There are plenty of dems who are doing nothing to support gay rights. The repubs have been brilliant in using the issue to highlight our supposed party support, hoping this will upset many of the voters in our party. However, without LEADERSHIP in our party on this issue, the voters will buy the repub line. There are many dems who are afraid of the voting public on this issue...which means they don't really support it themselves. Bottom line...they don't care either.

In my family it's strange, because I have a gay brother...but he's such a rebel, he considers issues like "gay marriage"...completely bourgeois and foreign....likewise any notion of gays who want children.

[ruggerson]

42. Yeah, I'm painfully reminded that there are plenty of Dems

who would sell us out in a heartbeat.

But, by and large, the anti gay MOVEMENT, so to speak, is Republican funded and Republican masterminded.

There's just a whole slew of Democrats who don't have the cojones to fight it.