DU THIS POLL: Should Canada WITHDRAW from KYOTO climate change accord??

[Harper_is_Bush]

Currently saying 69% vote yes!

Unbelievable.

Please go here and vote, right side of screen:
http://www.ctv.ca/mini/election2006/

[bambo53]

1. Why would they want to withdraw?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. To avoid shock and awe... close and convenient they are... nt.

[Harper_is_Bush]

3. The question is being asked because Stephen Harper

the Conservative candidate for Prime Minister, says he will withdraw and form a "made in Canada" plan (translation: see George Bushs plan)

[Poppyseedman]

4. Canada should withdraw.

Kyoto is worthless.
Do just a couple of hours of research and you will come to the same conclusion. That's what happens when you get a committee to agree to anything.

I know that's not very PC, but the actual results of the Kyoto Treaty is all you need to know. Not one country can meets it's goal or even trying.

[Harper_is_Bush]

5. What do you suggest then?

Just giving up on climate change and efforts to stop it?

The Kyoto accord is a launching pad. The conference in Montreal is an example of that. It was widely reported to be a great success.

[Poppyseedman]

9. No, the Kyoto accord has turned into a political tool

We cannot solve the CO2 problem by trading it away or forcing people to lower their standards of living to do so. China, Russia and India are never going to comply. India is building a dozen coal burning facility's as we speak.

I would suggest, western nations concentrate on serious money spent on research on alternative energy capabilities like ocean wave generators, large solar arrays, hydrogen, alternative fuels technologies and Nuclear. France's main source is nuclear, like 40 %. If they can do it, we can also. There are dozens of great ideas waiting to be attacked with research dollars.

Did you notice I said only western nations, the Eastern bloc countries cannot afford to give up growth that Kyoto will force them into.

The old saying of lead, follow or get the hell out of the way should be the US position. If we had the political will and popular support to do it, we as a country can.

Kyoto is Bullshit nonsense that will tie us to the Oil Sheiks for another 100 years.

[MrPrax]

6. Not surprising...

Under the Liberals, and esp. with their Leader Paul Martin Jr. who has spent way to much time promoting this internationally in order to BOOST his political image, Canada's emissions have gone UP 24% under his Kyoto committment.

In short, the only real difference between Tories(Harper) and Liberals (Martin) on this issue, is that the Liberals wrapped themselves around it as a political prop so Martin can play Statesman and the Tories figure that pissing off the US is not worth the effort...since it appears meaningless anyway.

So this poll probably reflects cyncism as much as a principled political stand. Canada is not so much turning right, as the ruling gov't has used 'fear of the other' to disenfranchise legitimate complaints and shout down it's critics.

It worked for 15 years, but it looks like the jig is up...

And to Canadian social democrats that jumped on this disgusting bandwagon, ignoring such things as the fact your champion has a WORST environmental record than Bush, is exactly part of the reason Harper might get elected...you guys just didn't take it seriously.

[applegrove]

7. Oh - and with all those factories closing down in the USA - you know

CHINA! That hasn't lowered US emissions? At a time when Canada now has to pull oil sand out of the ground and cook it on giant stove tops? At a time when we have to get exports to market? At a time when our population is growing by leaps and bounds, the economy is the best it has ever been for jobs and nobody in our country can live in anything that isn't heated for 7 months out of the year - and then in many parts - air conditioned for 3 months?

Our employment is the highest it has ever been. How is the USA's doing?

You don't have the factory jobs you used to. We never had that many and we seem to have kept some because of our better health care system.

Relax.

Martin is planning on buying Kyoto Credits from the Russians. Or didn't you read Harper's page this morning?

[MrPrax]

10. Not sure...

if I get the point?

I always thought that Kyoto was a PR campaign from day one. Western gov'ts in the 80s lived in fear of the environmental spikes in their polling figures, that showed that this issue cut across party lines.

Best way to deal with it, is control it and the best way to do that is invent the Kyoto Agreement--good show for the public, especially among 'democratic' type parties.

Of course, using a market rationale to 'peg' pollution to a market rate determined by the 'supply and demand' of the emitters was stupid to begin with...sure it might have worked for German rivers in the 60s, but then again, so what. Air ain't water.

The US economy vs. the Canadian economy is really not the issue...I don't think either economies are doing well and runaway production is a plague on both houses.

[applegrove]

11. You always had more factories than we did. Remember? You used

to sell from to the whole world. And yes - I think economies do have something to do with greenhouse gas targets. So do # of cars, heating, transportation costs, wealth, population growth (everyone in the USA is moving to the South). All the things that make up a wealthy economy spit out crap these days.

But you are right that many are not happy with how Canada is fairing with its commitments to Kyoto. See! It works.

[MrPrax]

12. Oh,

Sorry should have been more revealing...



(Don't tell anyone...I saw your reply header "You always had more factories than we did. Remember? You used to sell from to the whole world." REALLY?? yeehaw...we sure did by God, that 19th century was 'berry berry' good to Can-ahda...and then...oh wait, "He thinks I'm in the US...)

:rofl:

[Harper_is_Bush]

16. You are very wrong about something quite important...

It is not "Bush" who has the environmental record. The only reason the USA emissions have risen at a lower level than Canada is because many States have taken action on thier own. Bush has done nothing.

Do not attribute any success to Bush, please.

As for Martin, I don't know enough about the climate change actions taken/not taken to counterpoint all of your complaints. I do know that if you think "fear of the other" is just a meaningless, cynical tactic then you're not very familiar with the Conservative party.
If they got a majority you'd be realizing what all the fear was about.

[Flabbergasted]

8. This is the third poll I've seen lately with a 70 percent

coservative majority. One poll I looked at was rising be several hundred votes per minute at eleven oclock at night on the west coast. This was the poll on NOW (PBS) on impeachment or Spying. I could not see how there were that many people up that late at the PBS website so I concluded that the results were being skewed somehow.

[Harper_is_Bush]

13. Getting better!! Was 69 yes, now is 61 yes. GO VOTE NO NOW!!!

[Vidar]

14. done unfortunately 59% yes

[Harper_is_Bush]

15. 59!?!!? That's good because it means a 10 point shift since my last post.

There must be very few people voting thus far.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

17. Kick!

55% Yes
45% No

[Harper_is_Bush]

18. Kick. At 55% yes now. PLEASE go vote....

even if you feel that the Kyoto is not enough or hasn't worked....it's at least bringing a majority of the worlds nations together to deal with the problem and agree on new initiatives and action.

It's a lot better than nothing.

[Harper_is_Bush]

19. KICK! 56%...moved wrong way.

I know, nobody likes these polls...but this issue is central to our election with
the Conservatives pulling out of Kyoto.