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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:11 AM
Original message
The media is pushing the White House responses to Gore speech...
without question. Gonzalez says that Clinton and Gore did the same thing, they report. There is no follow up at all. None. In what context did Clinton spy on Americans? The same old game of "he said, she said" is not sufficient for good reporting. I know that is too much to ask. But, damn, they have to wake up sometime and give us some facts, rather than the canned response from the White House...
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. So, why did y'all waste an impeachment on a fucking BLOWJOB?
Seems pretty stupid if you ask me, considering you had all of these juicy spying accusations to act on. :eyes:

And if it was bad when Clinton did it, isn't it bad when George does it? :shrug:
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. If Clinton's searches had been impeachable...
don't you think they would have impeached him for that? It's not like they weren't desperate for something.
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Oreo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Can somebody give the specifics on the alleged Clinton spying?
I thought I saw somebody refute it here last week but I'm not finding anything this morning. If the media doesn't folloup, we sure as hell should.
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The White Tree Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Here's a Media Matters link about it.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. the good news (?) is that at least they mention Gore's speech this way.
Otherwise, it would not be mentioned at all.

What is that infamous refrain, I don't care if it is good press or bad press, the only bad news is no press?
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah, and communist Russia took citizens off the street and
sent them to secret prisons without a chance of a trial. So what? Are we going to follow every possible illegal action that was done at one time or another. It seems the repukes certainly are trying .
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. Did you see this?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. NOW do people realize it is the MEDIA who is the enemy of our Dem party?
Edited on Tue Jan-17-06 10:37 AM by blm
They have now done this to EVERY DEm who has eloquently made a case against the White House. EVERY ONE.

Not ONE Dem is exempt from their spin. It doesn't matter WHAT is said, or how WELL it is said. It's what the media adopts as the storyline afterwards that no Democrat has the access to control.

The DNC needs to EXPOSE THE GOP CONTROL OF THE MEDIA. No issue will get a fair hearing without dealing with media FIRST.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Ask the media: Do you know if that is true?
Or are you simply regurgitating what the White House told you? That might be a good place to start?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Background on Gorelick 94 testimony and Schmidt(Trib) foreign Power rules
From Media Matters:

While Gorelick did express concerns that the highly restrictive requirements that apply to criminal searches might "restrict the President's ability to collect foreign intelligence," she stated that such "ability" would not be infringed upon if these searches were to be governed by "the basic provisions" of FISA:

GORELICK: Nevertheless, I reiterate the Administration's willingness to support appropriate legislation that does not restrict the President's ability to collect foreign intelligence necessary for the national security. We need to strike a balance that sacrifices neither our security nor our civil liberties.

If we can achieve such a balance -- and I believe we can if we use the basic provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act -- we can accomplish a number of things.

Furthermore, York's claim that, even after FISA had been amended to require court orders for physical searches, Clinton "still maintained that he had sufficient authority to order such searches on his own" is false, according to Think Progress. Following the 1995 amendment, the Clinton administration never argued that the president's "inherent authority" allowed him to bypass FISA, as the Bush administration has done in the case of its domestic surveillance activities.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0512210142dec21,0,3553632.story?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed

In the Supreme Court's 1972 Keith decision holding that the president does not have inherent authority to order wiretapping without warrants to combat domestic threats, the court said explicitly that it was not questioning the president's authority to take such action in response to threats from abroad.

Four federal courts of appeal subsequently faced the issue squarely and held that the president has inherent authority to authorize wiretapping for foreign intelligence purposes without judicial warrant.

FISA contains a provision making it illegal to "engage in electronic surveillance under color of law except as authorized by statute." The term "electronic surveillance" is defined to exclude interception outside the U.S., as done by the NSA, unless there is interception of a communication "sent by or intended to be received by a particular, known United States person" (a U.S. citizen or permanent resident) and the communication is intercepted by "intentionally targeting that United States person." The cryptic descriptions of the NSA program leave unclear whether it involves targeting of identified U.S. citizens. If the surveillance is based upon other kinds of evidence, it would fall outside what a FISA court could authorize and also outside the act's prohibition on electronic surveillance.

FISA does not anticipate a post-Sept. 11 situation. What was needed after Sept. 11, according to the president, was surveillance beyond what could be authorized under that kind of individualized case-by-case judgment. It is hard to imagine the Supreme Court second-guessing that presidential judgment.

But we cannot eliminate the need for extraordinary action in the kind of unforeseen circumstances presented by Sept.11. I do not believe the Constitution allows Congress to take away from the president the inherent authority to act in response to a foreign attack (SO NAME THE FOREIGN POWER THAT ATTACKED US????). That inherent power is reason to be careful about who we elect as president, but it is authority we have needed in the past and, in the light of history, could well need again.

----------

John Schmidt served under President Clinton from 1994 to 1997 as the associate attorney general of the United States. He is now a partner in the Chicago-based law firm of Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw.







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