Who is worse in your opinion Ben Nelson or Joseph Lieberman?

[...of J.Temperance]

Who is worse in your opinion Ben Nelson or Joseph Lieberman?

Okay, to me it's Ben Nelson. If one looks at Ben Nelson's voting record, then one knows that he has a 98% Republican voting record. Sure, Ben Nelson represents a red state, Nebraska, so he should just switch to the political party that he votes 98% of the time in lockstep with and that's the Republican Party. Ben Nelson is absolutely as much use to the Democratic Party as Zell Miller was.

So with all the euphoria over some fellow challenging Joseph Lieberman...why does nobody on DU ever suggest that somebody challenge Ben Nelson? Lieberman gets torn to shreads on DU day after day...yet nobody hardly mentions Ben Nelson, a man who actually deserves the treatment that is given to Lieberman.

So, if one looks at Joseph Lieberman's voting record, then one knows that he has a 90% Democratic voting record. Sure I don't agree with Lieberman's support and cheerleading of the Iraq quagmire. However if one takes the time to actually look at Lieberman's voting record in the Senate, then one would see that Lieberman is a damn good Democrat. Our party always gets Lieberman's support on a wide variety of social issues for example from pro-Choice issues to education to Social Security to the minimum wage.

The people that champion Barbara Boxer, they should look at Joseph Lieberman's voting record and they'll see it's not THAT much different from Barbara Boxer's.

I think it's time that people started to cut Joseph Lieberman some slack, despite his pro-Iraq quagmire views he's NOT a DINO. I think it's time that people started to throw the comments that they make about Lieberman to a man who actually deserves that kind of abuse and that man is Ben Nelson of Nebraska. Ben Nelson also supports the Iraq quagmire, and he votes about 2% of the time with the Democratic Party and yet he hardly gets beaten up on DU...Lieberman gets beaten up nearly every day.

Who is worse Ben Nelson, a 98% Republican or Joseph Lieberman, a 90% Democrat?

Oh nobody is allowed to say that they're both as bad as one another...because it's apparent that they're NOT if you read my above comments.

:popcorn:

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

[NativeTexan]

1. Actually.....I don't see that big of a difference anymore....

....a Republican lap dog, is a Republican lap dog.

[...of J.Temperance]

4. Lieberman isn't a Republican lapdog...he only has pro-Iraq views the

Rest of his voting record is 90% Democratic, did you not read my comments...or are you just buying into the mediawhores horsecrap spinning?

[NativeTexan]

31. Actually Iraq is what I see....

....I don't listen to media whores. I develop my own opinions based on facts...not passions. Iraq is the single issue of the last thirty years, botched wholly and completely by the Bush Facist Party, and Lieberman is way too enthralled in face time before cameras with them on this subject. You can have a similar view of the war as they do without media whoring yourself on the TV.

[Tom Joad]

2. Like asking us by what method one would prefer to be killed.

[...of J.Temperance]

5. Can people please READ fully my comments in my poll and NOT just

The question in my poll...can people read about the radically different voting records of the Republican Ben Nelson and the DEMOCRAT Joseph Lieberman.

Thanks :)

[Tom Joad]

9. Some sense of solidarity with the people of Iraq, who are dying in Joe's

war, makes it difficult to give him any appreciation whatsoever.

Kill many people, lose respect. Joe has lost any chance of getting any respect from me.

[...of J.Temperance]

13. What I like about polls such as this, is that people can vote the way

That they want to vote and they needn't put a comment. I think that this is why, thus far, Ben Nelson is winning this poll.

Tom, check Lieberman's total voting record out...we wouldn't want a 100% Repuke Right-Wing reactionary getting that Senate seat would we? No.

[Tom Joad]

16. Not endorsing anyone who supports a war crime.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

30. You don't think

That the extent to which the question is loaded might have more to do with the fact that Nelson is winning than their relative voting records?

[Rowdyboy]

3. My senators are Trent Lott and Thad Cochran....Wish I had either of them..

[...of J.Temperance]

7. Heck, it's bad that Trent Lott is going to stand for another term :(

Had he not, then I think that your former Attorney-General Michael Moore or Representative Gene Taylor would either have had a great shot at getting that Mississippi Senate seat for us.

[Rowdyboy]

15. I was really hoping that Trent would hang it up because Mike Moore

would be a STRONG favorite for this seat right now. I'm really sick about it. Moore would make such an exceptional senator.

Taylor would be a grade A senate candidate but there is NO ONE else (Democratic) in that district that could possibly win his house seat. It would hurt big time to lose it.

[...of J.Temperance]

18. The GOP probably offered Lott a sweetener because they knew that

If he retired that seat would probably go to us.

What about Thad Cochran, he's pretty old, if he retires next time I wonder if we have a good shot at his seat?

Well yes, Gene Taylor should stay in his seat...what about Moore v Cochran or if Cochran retires then Moore going for that open seat?

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Moore will probably run for Governor against Barbour

And my money would be on Moore. It really will be Mississippi's gain to have him running the statehouse but definately a loss for the US Senate and the democratic party.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. Please give me the name of a "true" Democrat that can win in Nebraska.

[...of J.Temperance]

8. Bob Kerrey, he could take a shot again...he shouldn't have retired

He's not an old man.

Also, if we can't have a proper Democrat representing Nebraska, then I think we should just let the Repukes have that seat...let's face it the Repukes already DO have that seat and Ben Nelson is sitting in it and voting his little Repuke heart out for Bush Inc.

Let them have Nebraska...we've got a great shot in Pennsylvania with Bob Casey Jr who will unseat Santorum and in Tennessee where I think Harold Ford Jr. will be the next Senator.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error on Santorum.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[...of J.Temperance]

11. There's no need to be abusive, I've never been nasty to you have I?

Oh yes I also remember just a few years ago that Zell Miller was also in the Senate...so what because he was part of the majority are we supposed to FORGET his disgusting 98% Republican voting record...Zell Miller's record in the Senate was identical to Ben Nelson's voting record.

So are you going to "rah rah rah" Zell Miller as well?

What's our Presidential candidate got to do with Ben Nelson voting 98% Republican? Ben Nelson can't help my party which is the Democratic Party's Presidential candidate win Nebraska...if he could John Kerry would have won Nebraska...Ben Nelson is useless to my party, he's a Repuke and he should fuck off to where he belongs...if I were in charge of the DNC I'd immediately stop all funds to him and tell him that he votes 98% of the time with the Repukes so go and fuck off and get his money from the RNC.

[Nutmegger]

12. Ben Nelson by far

LIEberman's stance on the war is unacceptable and I will fully support anyone who runs against him in the primary or general election who is anti-Iraq war.

With that said, he has stayed on our side concerning the Patriot Act and ANWR.

Both are harmful but Nelson needs needs to look outside of the bubble.

[...of J.Temperance]

14. Good and logical comments Nutmegger :) n/t

[ihelpu2see]

17. They are both bad, but living in CT and hearing Joe go from Gore VP to

introducing John McCain as the next President of the US at a diner in NYC last year made me sick.... As too is blind support for this war in Iraq.

[DCal]

19. Your description of their voting records is not accurate

Lieberman's ADA (Americans for Democratic Action) ratings were 75 in 2004 and 70 in 2003.

Nelson's ADA ratings were 65 in 2004 and 45 in 2003.

National Journal's 2004 ratings are as follows:

Lieberman:
Economic Issues: 62% Liberal
Social Issues: 82% Liberal
Foreign Issues: 55% Liberal

Nelson:
Economic Issues: 53% Liberal
Social Issues: 45% Liberal
Foreign Issues: 54% Liberal

So, Nelson is more conservative than Lieberman (except on Foreign Policy Issues, where they are tied), but the spread is not nearly as extreme as you indicate in your description of the poll options.

[...of J.Temperance]

20. And Lieberman is not nearly as DINO as he's portrayed here

Look at those ADA ratings...who's the DINO, Lieberman on 75% and 70% or Nelson on 65% and 45%

Look at those social issues...who's the DINO, Lieberman on 82% or Nelson on 45%

They're supposed to be our big things aren't they, the ADA rating and how they vote on social issues?

Nelson IS a DINO.

Lieberman IS a DEMOCRAT.

On Edit: We can count on Joseph Lieberman to vote with us on key and important issues...we can count on Ben Nelson to vote with us on jackshit.

[fujiyama]

21. I don't like Nelson one bit

but Lieberman has no excuse.

Nelson can use the electoral excuse and it's justifiable to some extent, after all he's from a state that voted over 60% for Bush. It's an extremely conservative state. Hell, I'm surprised we can get a Dem elected to the senate at all. After all, I think we all saw what happened in Oklahoma where a conservative Dem (Brad Carson) lost to that absolute nutcase Coburn. I don't expect Nelson to have the voting record of Ted Kennedy.

Lieberman is from a state that voted for Kerry by some 55%. It's a relatively liberal northeastern state which can do much better.

Both suck. But Nelson has a crappy excuse. Lieberman doesn't even have that. Plus Lieberman seems more outspoken in his defense of the administration. While voting records are how I also usually judge senators and congresspeople, it's not the only thing. I used to defend Lieberman a lot, but once he started defending the administration over Abu Ghraib and whitewashing it I no longer could do that.

I don't see Nelson making the rounds on TV much. Liebeman gives the RW some credibility and undercuts the party's cause. He is also much more of a national figure (which makes sense considering he was also on a national ticket).

[Hippo_Tron]

22. Lieberman gets much more media attention than Nelson

Which is double sided in this debate. On one hand, whenever he says something in support of Bush, the media plays it up like crazy because Lieberman was Gore's running mate and ran for President in '04. Whenever Nelson says something in support of Bush nobody hears about it except for people who pay attention to politics.

On the other hand, Lieberman is arguably more dangerous than Nelson because of this. It is incredibly disturbing to see Lieberman go on the TV networks and basically say that Bush is right about Iraq and that the Democrats should support him because he is the president. This kind of rhetoric is basically a softer version of the GOP's "dissent is unpatriotic" and coming out of a prominent democrat's mouth, it really does hurt other democrats who are trying to do the right thing and tell the truth about this war. Whenever Ben Nelson says that we need to support Bush on Iraq, nobody in the media gives a shit because he's an unknown senator from Nebraska who never has and never will have any chance of becoming president.

I would have basically no problem with Lieberman's slightly conservative leaning record if he would stop going on TV and criticizing his fellow dems for telling the truth about the war.

As far as Nelson goes, someone on another thread said that not only is Nelson a shitty senator but he's also a shitty human being. I have to agree with that poster. It's one thing to be anti gay marriage and anti choice in a state like Nebraska. It's another thing to vote for an economic agenda that was created to screw over most of your constituency. Nelson doesn't have an ethical bone in his body and his votes are no better than a neocon.

All of this being said, getting 51 seats in '06 is going to be VERY important and now that Trent Lott is running for re-election, one more seat is out of the possible D column and into the safe R column.
If Lowell Weicker were to promise to caucus with the democrats then I would consider voting for him in Connecticut. Otherwise I think that I might have to hold my nose and vote for Lieberman for the caucus vote alone. Also, if Weicker said that he would caucus with the GOP, I would have a hard time supporting a guy who claims to be against the war yet votes to put in power the people that allowed Bush to run it without any oversight whatsoever.

[ProudDad]

24. They're both evil

[Douglas Carpenter]

25. voting record of Nelson, Lieberman, Clinton, Allen and McCain

based on interest group ratings. In answer to the OP Question it appears that Nelson is overall (with some notable exceptions)considerably worse, but still considerably better overall than McCain much less Allen

This is courtesy of project vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/index.htm

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 33 percent in 2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.
_________________________________

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the Peace Action 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Peace Action 38 percent in 2004

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Peace Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Peace Action 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Peace Action 13 percent in 2004.
______________________________________

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.

_________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 33 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 83 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 78 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 65 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95
percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 15 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 82 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 17 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.

_______________________________________

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 64 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 110 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the National Education Association 90 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Education Association 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 85 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National Education Association 25 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.
______________________


2003-2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 13 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 56 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 95 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 7 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 25 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 32 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 56 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 92 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 56 percent in 2003-2004

____________________________

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Nelson supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 52 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.


http://www.cegelisforcongress.com/contribute

[Daylin Byak]

26. Ben Nelson over Lieberman

Although I do not support Senator Lieberman's views on the iraq war I would support him over Nelson in a heartbeat.

Nelson is a slap in the face to the Democratic party, his voting record is atroicious in the Senate and he hardly supports he dems when we need him the most.

But you got to remember that in real life Ben Nelson is actually a Republican, the only reason why he's a Democrat is because when he ran for Governor the Republican already had a candidate so he switched parties.

There's your answer.

[Clarkansas]

27. They are still better than any republican.

[LWolf]

28. At this moment,

it would have to be Lieberman, because I'd never heard of Ben Nelson until I read your post. I really don't know anything about him. If he'd run on the underside of a presidential ticket, and then run in a presidential primary like Lieberman did, I'd probably have a better idea.

Maybe that's why you don't hear about him here; he hasn't locked his sights on the WH, and the MSM isn't following him around, reporting on his support of the Bush administration. In the case of Nebraska, what better Democrat could challenge Nelson and win? I'm sure that you'd get some discussion about him if you started some threads with that discussion. Probably starting with what defines a "better" democrat, lol.

[LaurenG]

29. I can't vote in this, IMO lieberman is 90% back stabber

I despise him and I hope that he just goes away. He stood beside a criminal and asked us to go along with him. I have lost ALL respect for him and basically I feel he can't be trusted EVER again. :cry: :popcorn: