About Hillary and the whole "Plantation" thing...

[jackbourassa]

Well yesterday I finally watched the infamous speech, but I got to tell you it wasn't the "plantation" thing that got me. It was her tone and presentation. Hillary was standing there with her arm swinging around like a mad woman, trying her damnest to act like a black preacher or something. She looked like a total fool. I have nothing against black preachers, but when Hillary - who is the whitest woman in America - tries to be something she is not, then she looks simply ridiculous. I can't believe some people actually think it would be a good thing to nominate this woman to be President. She looked like a moron.

An impression is beginning to form about Hillary Clinton. Hillary's problem is not "foot in mouth disease." Hillary's problem is that she is a "panderer." What does this woman stand for anymore? She wants to ban flag burning...she want's to ban violent video games...she supports the war in Iraq...she says nothing about anything that matters...now this. She is just pandering. Pandering to the lowest common denominator. She stands for nothing, but winning the nomination for herself. She offers no vision for the future. She has no record. Her political "experience" involves only an election victory over Rick Lazio in NEW YORK STATE (bluest of the blue). She is reviled by nearly half the country.

A recent Zogby poll had her trailing John McCain by 17%. She trails everyone else as well. And that's with a 100% name recognition. That's without the kind of attack ads that will surely dog her throughout 2008. My point of view is simple: support Hillary and the Dems lose another election. Then when John Paul Stevens retires or dies (he will be 89 in 2009), another republican will put the fifth and final vote on the Supreme Court to overturn Roe. The war will go on unabated. Corporations will continue on unchecked. Americans will continue to lose their jobs. And the DLC will say the reason she lost was because she is "too liberal."

She was terrible in that speech, and not just because she used the word "plantation." If this is what we're going to get, then we are truly doomed.

[msongs]

1. what do you have against black preachers?

you used a string of negatives against hillary and wondered if she was trying to act like a black preacher.

do you really think your description of black preachers is accurate when you say:

"Hillary was standing there with her arm swinging around like a mad woman, trying her damnest to act like a black preacher or something. She looked like a total fool. I can't believe some people actually think it would be a good thing to nominate this woman to be President. She looked like a moron."

hmmm

Msongs
www.msongs.com/dean2008.htm

[jackbourassa]

3. I have nothing against Black Preachers

But when the whitest woman in America tries to act like a black preacher, it looks odd and stupid. And totally phoney. The kind of thing that might end up in a commercial or something.

Don't turn this into a race thing. My post accused her of "pandering."

[tuvor]

6. A phoney in the White House...

Hard to imagine.

[Brotherjohn]

17. I thought Ray Nagin looked rather foolish trying to "act like a black...

... preacher" during his MLK Day, "Chocolate" speech.

And he's black!

It's not that Hillary, or Ray, were looking foolish because they looked like a black preacher. They looked foolish because they were trying to appear to be something which they so obviously were not.

I think that's where the "God's mad" stuff came in. He was trying to take on the "MLK-preacher" persona and thought it would be appropriate for the occasion.

But as Ray himself said, "I don't know what happened there."

[jackbourassa]

Brotherjohn, I agree.

[SaveElmer]

20. More pointless Hillary bashing...

When you can't fault her message, you have to resort to the old pandering charge. Hillary Clinton has been a strong supporter of issues important to African Americans her entire life.

Curious how her audience certainly seemed to enjoy her speech...and certainly Al Sharpton, John Conyers and Barack Obama appreciated it given the rousing defense they gave of her. The only people who don't seem to like it are Republicans, and the legion of Hillary haters who inhabit this board.

[zann725]

22. Agreed. And I'm usually the FIRST to Bash her. But in THIS case,

I endorse her comments...and timing. And had NO problem at all understanding the TRUE meaning of her comments.

[mtnsnake]

34. It's really amazing what they'll pick her apart for, isn't it

Here she's bashed for showing emotion? WTF? Isn't that what we want out of our people for a change?

If she used some other tone of voice, or didn't make emotional gestures, they'd complain about that!!

Nice to see Hillary's got a little PASSION!

[Blutodog]

2. Billary

I agree totally!! She's only given big media because the rethugs are praying she gets the nod. Of course it doesn't really matter anyway since Diebold et. al will pick who they want in the end. Until the D's wake up and smell the garbage of election fraud they'll continue to have elections stolen right out from under them. Nevertheless, the rethugs want an easy steal and Hillary is a joke.

[jackbourassa]

5. Hillary Clinton is NO BILL CLINTON

She's terrible on the stump. No charisma whatsoever.

[William769]

4. My sig line says it all.

[jackbourassa]

7. William769, I guess you don't seem to mind

Living in a Republican dominated America. How big of you.

[William769]

9. First you refer to her as trying to act like a "black Preacher"

Now you infer she is a Republican. I rest my case.

[jackbourassa]

13. Uh...Huh????

What are you saying? I never infered she is a republican. I am SAYING EXPLICITLY that she will lose us the election ---- TO A REPUBLICAN.

I don't think Hillary has a prayer of winning against anyone. She is the GOP's wet dream.

As for the Black Preacher, I have nothing against them at all. But it does look odd when a 56 year old White woman behaves that way.

[desi]

12. Because William 769 would vote for a Democrat..??

...I believe you are on record wishing that Lynn Swann defeats Ed Rendell. How many other Democrats do YOU hate..??

[jackbourassa]

14. Ya I do hate Ed Rendell, that's true

And I really like Lynn Swann. So I'll admit I said that.

[William769]

15. self delete.

Misunderstood the post.

[jackbourassa]

18. He was talking about me....

I don't like Rendell.

I thought of other Dems I don't like either: Lieberman for his position on the war, Nelson (NE) for his position on everything, and Biden because he just annoys me.

P.S. I have nothing personally against Hillary. I just think she is a terrible politician and will lose the Dems another election.

[desi]

19. That reply is not to you...

..it is for the OP...for what it's worth, the Hillary bashing/hatefest is IMHO becoming a daily ritual here on DEMOCRATIC Underground. I apologize if appears to be directed at you William769...

[William769]

21. It was my mistake, I misread the post

I'm sorry. :(

I get get defensive on this topic, thats why I self deleted it.

[renie408]

23. Hey, please don't hurt me, I am just asking...

what do you think about the degree of animous Hillary's name brings up in a lot of people? Again, my perceptions might be skewed because I live in a very red state, but she is not particularly well admired by even the Dems I know down here. Name recognition does not neccessarily have to be a positive thing. I mean, everybody knew who Scott Peterson was.

[desi]

25. No apology necessary..

...I had not seen your deletion when I posted to you. Quite frankly, the Hillary bashing/hatefest here on DU sometimes mirrors the worst of some radical right wing websites.

[renie408]

26. Do you think that might be a sign?

I am not being icky, I literally mean that if she is villified by the right and not particularly popular by a good bit of the left....how can she get elected? Regardless of how good a job she may or may not do, if people won't vote for you...what good does it do?

I know a lot of people get really pissed when somebody says the 'e' word (electability), but its like the pile of shit in the middle of the room. You can ignore it, but it still stinks and draws flies.

[desi]

29. This is rather elementary.

You could easily provide the "electability" of any Dem OR Republican of your choice. On the shit in the middle of the room and the flies. Do you know how to get rid of the flies...??? Move the pile of shit to another room....freerepublic.com

[patrice]

27. When people are against someone, it isn't ALWAYS about hate.

I don't enjoy bashing anyone.

These are my genuine problems with her; are they ir-relevant?

Can someone "in power" in this party answer my question: Why is the presidency automatically assumed in her case? Give me a reason that justifies that and I'll listen to it.

[desi]

30. Why of course..

..the OP is spreading the "love" far and wide...(sarcasm/) he also "loves" Rendell..

[patrice]

31. I don't know anything about the OP.

I do know people with all kinds of twisted agendas come to this board.

If some people Hate Hillary, they may be surprised by the level of power she can achieve without being president.

[jackbourassa]

32. desi, it's funny that you never seem to answer any of the...

...important questions asked.

Why should Hillary have an automatic right to the Democratic nomination?

If she is as "disliked," as you yourself admit by both the left and the right, how does she stand any chance of being elected President?

As for me? I don't dislike Hillary at all. I just think she would be a disaster as a Presidential candidate (not personal, just buisness). If we win the Congress this year, her nomination could mean our defeat there as well in 2008. I mean consider this, given that she has nearly 100% name recognition, and has not received terrible press as a Senator - up until now - and given all the troubles the GOP are facing, she still trails all the nationally known Republicans by double-digits. What do you think will happen when she is the nominee and the GOP attack machine revs up and goes ballistic on her?

She might lose this election - not by one or two points like Kerry or Gore (well, Gore actually won the pop. vote) - but by 10% to 20%. A LANDSLIDE!!!!

I think she would do worse than Dean would. How could all the Washington "insiders" line up against Dean for being "unelectable" and then support Hillary - who is even MORE UNELECTABLE.

As for my original post, I was just illustrating how UNLIKE Bill Clinton she actually is. She does not have charisma. She is not a great presense. She is not a great public speaker. And then I pointed out how she has never really been tested politically. She was basically GIVEN the Democratic nomination in New York. And she defeated a very weak and very young candidate in an overwhelmingly Democratic state. This is hardly anything to crow about.

These are legitimate topics to bring up. That you're so sensitive about Hillary's electability doesn't change any of them.

P.S. Rendell is an a**hole.

[patrice]

8. She could do more for everyone in some other position.

Ambassador or some important department like the FCC.

Why do some people assume she HAS to be president? These assumptions feel a lot like those that lost in 2004.

I'll defend her and I'll vote for her if she makes it that far, but that's all I'll do.

[jackbourassa]

10. What makes people think she has "what it takes"

To be President...

Because her last name is Clinton? After Hillary loses in 2008, should we nominate George Clinton next? He can funk it out during the State of the Union Address.

Hillary is NO Bill.

[PinkyisBlue]

28. I agree completely.

I think she has been a good senator and should keep this position. We need all the Democrats in the Senate we can get. But I think it is a big mistake to ever nominate her as the Democratic nominee for President. She'll never win. She's very controversial. People (even Democrats) either love her or hate her. And she will get skewered if she runs for President. I, too, would vote for her for President, but only if I had to. I agree she's NO Bill Clinton.

[bigscott]

11. i assume

the whole "black preacher" comment referred to he trying to be emotive and enthusiastic as SOME black preachers can be.....so assuming that, I agree. She looked ridiculous. I liked her as a first lady who was more than a stepford wife (like babs or pickles) and i hear she is a good senator for the state to my west - BUT, if she is nominated in 2008, I am packing my bags and heading to Amsterdam. I will vote for her by absentee ballot - but that is it. The Dems need to think long and hard about this one - we would get her as she is now - we DON'T GET BILL BACK!!!

[jackbourassa]

16. Bigscott, you're assumption is correct...

The problem with most Dems is that they think if they nominate Hillary, she will be as good as Bill.

After watching that speech, I don't think she has a prayer.

[patrice]

24. And, Oh Yeah, I'm SORRY I feel this way about Hillary now. I don't WANT

to feel like this about her - at all! I was with her until she voted to trust George Bush, when soooooooooooooo many of us could see exactly what was going on. "I told you so" is Bitter-bread.

[Neil Lisst]

33. I'll come down on Hillary for some things, but not this one.

She's right.