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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 01:58 PM
Original message
Zogby: Kennedy bumps Roosevelt from Presidential Greatness
Zogby: Kennedy bumps Roosevelt from top of Presidential Greatness Scale

http://www.1bakersfield.com/news/read/21/62218

Roosevelt usually tops the Zogby Presidential Greatness Scale, but
Kennedy has rebounded nicely after hitting a low point in
1997, when the American news media was filled with stories of
Presidential peccadilloes during the Bill Clinton/Monica
Lewinsky affair. Also aiding Kennedy's numbers: Americans who
have a personal memory of the Roosevelt presidency are dwindling.

more...
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another reflection of the endemic American ignorance of history.
As for the stature of presidents, FDR -- given the forces arrayed against him (including all of Big Business) and what he nevertheless accomplished -- is unquestionably the greatest U.S. president of all time.
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ISUGRADIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You got that right
I'd love to see the follow up question: Now name three accomplishments of the Kennedy administration.
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. FDR the Greatest
People should go to the effort to learn what all the New Deal programs and agencies were, and how they saved the country, region by region. Then the multi-sided simultaneous fighting of World War II, when Roosevelt had to start by building up our armed forces, as we were a second rate power then, and winning. No graft, no corruption; just an incredible and very long record of brilliant public service. The New Deal should be used as the model to end unemployment, recession and poverty today.

For all the coverage on Lincoln, Kennedy, etc. on TV--forums, documentaries, anniversaries recalled--there is, still, nothing but censorship for both Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt and their real contributions--specifically--to this country; a clue if there ever was one...And to think that this was the greatest President ever. Just ask one of these older people suffering on this new "Medicare" prescription drug disaster what they think.
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. I have thought about it quite abit and yes I do believe FDR
was our greatest president.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Can't compare JFK to FDR. In fact, no prez compares. Circumstances
and how a president deals with them determine greatness. FDR was great because he provided inspired leadership during the Depression and WWII. JFK provided inspired leadership during the Cuban missile crisis. But that was about his only opportunity except for some civil rights gains - but it was really LBJ who gets most of the credit there. I do believe that had their roles been reversed JFK would have risen to the challenge just as FDR did. But that we can't know.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. I have to go with FDR -- not perfect -- but imagine any President saying
these things:

Franklin D. Roosevelt

“The Economic Bill of Rights”
Excerpt from 11 January 1944 message to Congress on the State of the Union – link:
http://worldpolicy.org/globalrights/econrights/fdr-econbill.html

“We cannot be content, no matter how high the general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.
This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.
As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.
We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.”

source: The Public Papers & Addresses of Franklin D. Roosevelt (Samuel Rosenman, ed.), Vol XIII (NY: Harper, 1950), 40-42
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spaniard Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Imagine any President passing United States Executive Order 9066










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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. indeed that was awful
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 09:20 PM by Douglas Carpenter
and aspects of his record get worse than that
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. He sounds like a socialist or a social democrat
We don't elect those types anymore because they're "communists."
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. FDR was the greatest. Jack Kennedy was mediocre at best
What JFK was good at was in energizing a lot of young people into believing they could make a difference in the world. The New Frontier had that sort of appeal, and thousands volunteered for such things as the Peace Corps, Kennedy's greatest contribution.

On the negative side, Kennedy was a Cold Warrior and nearly got us all killed by his overreaction to Soviet missiles in Cuba. On the plus side, Kennedy ignored lunatics such as Nixon, who advocated using a pretext to invade Cuba, and General Curtis LeMay, who ordered SAC to fly provocative missions near Soviet air space.

There is controversy regarding Kennedy's actions in South Vietnam. On one hand, he was blamed for giving the green light to the assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem, America's puppet in South Vietnam. On the other hand, some have said that Kennedy had pretty much decided in 1963 to disengage from Vietnam.

If you get the feeling that Kennedy was a complex man, you are right. His untimely death did a lot of harm to this country and left his record unfulfilled.

There are not such doubts about FDR. He understood the threat to America from Hitler and Hirohito. FDR saved this country from Nazi occupation. FDR was the greatest President of the twentieth century!
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I agree!
:thumbsup:
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beyond_the_pale Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. First Ladies may be a factor . . .
The diference may be attributed because Jackie Kennedy is now universally liked, or, untouchable, however; Eleanor R. still has many detractors. My Republican friends don't like Eleanor R. and think she is many times worse than H. Clinton. Yes, Eleanor and Hillary are still Number One on the worst Presidential Wives coctail party debate. I was surprised that there was so much antipathy towards Eleanor Roosevelt in this era, but it still exists. I always considered E.R. a heroic personality, so I was surprised that this Presidential Wife is so disliked in some factions, even after all these years.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I met Eleanor Roosevelt in 1961
when I worked briefly for what was then the UN Association, where she had an office. She invited the office staff to her Manhattan apartment at Christmas time for hot chocolate and read to us from Dickens "A Christmas Carol." One staffer was so nervous she spilled her hot chocolate on the rug. ER was lovely about it but the poor girl who spilled was mortified. I was a kid myself, right out of college and in the big city for the first time. It was quite an experience. ER was a tall woman, very imposing stature I thought. I was in awe.
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