More Reasons to Support Pennacchio over Casey

[Mummyman]

There's a good article over at IRREGULAR TIMES. It points out more evidence of why we should support Chuck Pennacchio for U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania instead of Bob Casey Jr. Check it out:

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/19/pennacchio-and-lusk/

Your pal,
Eric

[TheFarseer]

1. sorry man

but Casey is going to waste Santorum and that's the best reason of all to support him.

[Mummyman]

4. I disagree with you

First of all, I don't believe in winning at all costs. Casey is not a good candidate. He doesn't believe in much of anything that I do. To say he's better than Santorum is not saying much.

And I've had these arguments with Democrats for months now, but I don't get what the obsession with Casey is. So he's the son of a former governor. That doesn't mean shit. The polls coming out this early don't mean shit, either.

If Casey gets the nomination, I'll probably vote for him. But if he gets it and loses, I'm personally going to find every Democrat that voted for him in the primary and punch him in the face.

Your pal,
Eric

P.S. I apologize for the cursing and violent thoughts, but I'm sick of Democrats whining and bellyaching for candidates that fight for them and all of that crap, and then go out and support a candidate like Bob Casey Jr, because he's the safe candidate, and they think he's the most "electable." That's just a formula for losing, and I'm sick of losing. We try the same crap all of the time, and it never works. PA hasn't elected a Democratic senator in 40-something years now, so we need to try something new.

[MaineDem]

9. "PA hasn't elected a Democratic senator in 40-something years now"

Casey has a good shot of breaking that streak.

[Mummyman]

12. So does Pennacchio

[PaDem]

57. Totally disagree

It will take Casey's name recognition, access to $$ and moderate reputation to have a prayer against Santorum. Personally I think Santorum would beat Pennachio by 20 pts if they were to face off in a general election. I identify more with Pennachio's stance on issues, but this election is far too important for me to support him.

[Mummyman]

60. And I disagree with you.

Name recognition only gets you so far, and the money excuse is crap. Whoever gets the nomination would get money thrown at them by the Democrats once the primary was over.

There have been polls done that show Casey's numbers will drop dramatically once voters learn that he is pro-life. I believe that Casey is only doing so well in the polls now because people know nothing about him. The more they hear, the less likely they will be to vote for Casey.

Your pal,
Eric

[DaveinMD]

36. Wofford

was elected in 1991. I know. I worked on the campaign.

[TheFarseer]

11. of course maybe I should keep my big nose out of this

because I live about 5 states away!

[MaineDem]

13. Me, too.

I'll back away now. :)

[Mummyman]

18. No

You shouldn't keep out of it. Everyone needs to be involoved, even if not directly. We're all in this together.

Your pal,
Eric

[Mummyman]

22. This is more important than just PA (although, that is damn important!)

Also, I believe this is about more than just the senate seat from Pennsylvania. If Casey gets the nomination, that just tells the Democratic leadership that this is the kind of candidate we want running for us. They will continue to nominate conservative men and women, assuming that we don't care, and we'll have no choice in the matter. That's what's happening now. It's as if we don't even have a primary anymore. And all of the people that are blindly supporting Casey and this tactic are helping to make this happen.

I believe that this is not the way to win. If Casey gets the nomination, I hope I'm wrong about everything. But from what I've seen of the Democrats' choices the last few years in how they conduct business, I don't feel too confident.

Your pal,
Eric

[TheFarseer]

23. It's just like Nebraska with Nelson

I liked Nelson but now I can hardly stand him. That said, he's much better than what the republicans are running. If we ran anyone else, our guy would get obliterated. I guess I'll take any dem I can get when it comes to red states like mine, but to see, for example, Joe Lieberman in a very blue state is kind of frustrating.

I believe the larger point is that the media and polls and hype are picking our candidates, just like they are already picking Hillary for 2008. The media and the hype seem to want everyone to run to the center and the polls to bear that our for them.

[katinmn]

63. Or MN with Klobuchar and Bell...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2383689

[neverevergivein]

2. Casey is Repug-lite

I am hoping he wins, but not putting too much faith that i won't be disappointed once he's in there. He will try to overturn Roe from day 1.

[Mummyman]

17. Arrggh

Then support the guy you like! It's not that hard!

This is so frustrating!

[katinmn]

65. delete. responded to wrong post

:hi:

[QC]

30. He's IMPURE!!! IMPURE, I tell you!!!!! n/t

[DaveinMD]

37. no he's not

he's very progressive on economic issues. He's an old time Democrat.

[MaineDem]

3. I don't know that source

Could you give us a bit of the evidence?

[ruggerson]

5. I want Santorum humiliated

if that means Casey, then by all means let's line up behind Casey. We should be united on this one.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. Absolutely

Casey's a good candidate. He's from the old school, which means he votes the law, not his personal beliefs. That's why all the pro-choice people and groups on PA are supporting him.

They're finally catching on that, in order to secure the kind of people we want to populate the judiciary, we have first to support the people who will vote on those nominations. Casey is a good man - his beliefs are not in synch with mine - but his record stands up to scrutiny, and I'm just relieved to see that the lefties are getting smart and catching on to compromise.

[ruggerson]

Yep

I'm willing to compromise on a lot of issues.

Only when a candidate starts taking positions that are in synch with the worst of the Republicans, (Zell Miller, Lieberman, Tim Kaine) do they cross the line where I won't go.

I think we can be flexible without losing our core principles. Casey has not said anything that I consider out of the ballpark.

[Mummyman]

15. He's more Republican than many Republicans

Sorry, but he's totally out of the ballpark. I agree that we shouldn't complain if someone disagrees with us on a few things. But he's pro-life, he's pro Iraq war, he's against embryonic stem cell research, he's against separation of church and state, he was for the whole Teri Schiavo debacle, he loves guns, and he loves the death penalty.

Now if you agree with all of that stuff, then go for it. Support him. I don't and I won't.

Your pal,
Eric

[snowbear]

38. But why is he knocking the other candidates off the map?

Voters there must like something about him.. :shrug:

Although, I admire your dedication to your candidate :hug:

[Mummyman]

51. Thanks

I don't think that they do like him. Most people don't like Santorum, and they don't know anyone else is running because the media sucks these days, and the Democrats want Casey to get the nomination. Personally, I've never heard anyone say that they are actually excited about Casey the senator. They're just so scared of Santorum winning, that they are trying to play it safe.

I truly believe that Pennacchio would have a better chance of defeating Santorum than Casey in the general election. Democrats need to stop being scared of who they are and what they believe in.

Your pal,
Eric

[Pennacchiorocks]

53. Don't let the media pick our candidate

Larissa ,

There's a very simple answer to your question. The reason Casey is the frontrunner in the primary is because pundits, the mainstream media, and the Democratic party leadership have been shoving Casey in our faces since the moment he announced his candidacy. Because Casey is the son of our former Governor, and a career politician himself (Auditor, Governor candidate, and now State Treasurer) the media basically decided that Casey was the candidate from day one. Until recently, it was not uncommon to read articles that actually referred to Casey as if he were the only Democrat running against Santorum and pollsters have yet to include Pennacchio in a poll. Because Pennacchio is not a career politician and doesn't take corporate PAC money, he has been largely ignored by the media. That's beginning to chage though; go to www.chuck2006.com click on "press" and you can see the coverage he's been getting of late.

Chuck Schumer, Ed Rendell, and Harry Reid decided that Casey should be our candidate and they even pressured former Senate candidate Joe Hoeffel not to run. Chuck Pennacchio was the only one with the cojones to run against Casey in the primary. But it took a lot of hard work for the media to start noticing Pennacchio. He goes all over the state meeting voters and winning them over. ALL Casey does is fundraisers. He's a pay per view candidate.

Name recognition can be bought, or given very quickly by the media. But you cannot buy passion or conviction and Pennacchio is flowing over the brim with both. Casey is quite frankly a bore when I've heard him speak. And he doesn't even talk about the issues. Chuck Pennacchio is a great speaker and comes accross as a real person, not a robotic politician. I encourage you to see Chuck speak if you're ever in PA. And join me and thousands of other Pennacchio volunteers in writing newspapers until Pennacchio gets the media coverage he deserves.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. I don't know about Kaine yet

Man, I hope he carries on in the best Mark Warner tradition. I hope.

It's all about the grassroots organizations supporting people who understand that their personal beliefs might not match up with the law, and who will vote the law instead of their personal beliefs.

We've had enough zealotry - it's time to get practical.

And to get rid of Santorum - who, I predict, is going to eat it BIG.

[tishaLA]

49. I almost always agree with you, OLL, but

not this time.

http://www.grassrootspa.com/2005/02/edicos-9s-pro-abortion-deputy.html

Sandi is an old friend...and she's not alone.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

50. "Conservative Grassroots"???

I have no knowledge of anyone or anything having to do with this. I'm only familiar with the pro-choice political groups who are supporting Casey, not any individuals.

This website has the Democratic strategy all wrong, by the way.

So, we disagree. That's good.

[tishaLA]

52. Yeah I know it's a conservative site

But it's right about Sandi's feelings. She's pretty high up in Rendell's administration.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

55. I like Rendell

Good for her. I really do understand her passion, and applaud your friend for it. Hey, if she's your friend, she's got to be good....

But, the Democrats are getting smart, finally, and Roe cannot be the end-all and be-all of any Democratic platform. It's got to be electing the people who will vote in the proper judges. It's not easy, and the risk of betrayal is always there, but so is the next election. I mean, look at what's going on now.

We just can't keep going down the same Roe v. Wade path. We've got to work in a more sophisticated, inclusive, far-thinking way.

In other news, how's it going, kid? Long time no see.

[Mummyman]

56. Your logic is good, but it doesn't apply here.

But I think that's where many people are mistaken. The abortion issue is not the only thing wrong with Casey. It's all of the other problems that he brings to the table that worry me (I've already mentioned them a hundred times, so I won't bother to again).

And about voting in proper judges, why should we think that Casey would do that? When asked about Alito, he would never answer if he opposed him or not (much like every other question he's asked), so I take that to mean that he would vote to confirm him. Being a Democrat is great and all, and I'm sure he'd be better than Santorum, but if they don't vote the way you want 90% of the time, what good is it.

I am a Democrat because of what they believe in, not because they have a (D) next to their names.

Your pal,
Eric

[Mummyman]

7. Support who you like

There's no way to know, unless someone has a crystall ball. We all united behind Kerry for these same stupid reasons, and now look what we've got. I loved Kerry and all, but he didn't fight enough, and Casey's ten times worse and more boring.

Santorum's a good campaigner, and anyone who thinks he's done are wrong. People like Casey now because they know his name, but when they actually start to see him, and he puts them to sleep, his poll numbers are going to fall.

I've seen Chuck Pennacchio in person, and there is no chance of people being bored with him.

Your pal,
Eric

[NYCGirl]

8. Isn't Casey leading in the polls over Santorum by a wide margin?

I'm not up to date on PA politics, but I remember this to be the case. If I'm off base, let me know.

[Mummyman]

10. Yes, but...

Yes, he is leading right now, but as you know, it is 10 months until the election. Polls mean nothing right now. Kerry was beating Bush by 14 points a few months before the election as well.

Your pal,
Eric

[NYCGirl]

14. Well, then let's just hope that Casey runs a better campaign than Kerry's

(which shouldn't be too difficult) and that Santorum just keeps on being Santorum (also not difficult).

[Mummyman]

16. That's great -- we'll just hope for the best

How about we don't nominate the loser in the first place. I see you have a picture of Dean next to your name. Wouldn't you have liked to see him get the nomination instead of Kerry, knowing what you know now?

I believe supporting Casey is a big mistake.

Your pal,
Eric

[NYCGirl]

19. To be perfectly honest — my heart says, of course I would have preferred

for Dean to be the candidate. But right now, we don't have the luxury of hindsight.

[Mummyman]

21. You all know Bush's favorite line -- Fool me once...

Right, but we can learn from our mistakes. Chuck Pennacchio is the candidate that eveyone likes better, but they don't think would have the best chance to win. I don't know anyone that actually likes what Bob Casey Jr stands for, but they're all supporting him because he's the most "electable." Does that sound familiar?

The person with name recognition always does well in the early going, but when it comes to election time, the voters want a candidate who has a fire in his belly, and who will actually stand up and fight for something. That describes Chuck Pennacchio, not Bob Casey Jr.

Your pal,
Eric

[wyldwolf]

24. well, now, THERE is a sound, logical reason not to support Casey

...he's leading in the polls by a wide margin, but anything can happen in 10 months. Best we abandon him and support someone else. :eyes:

[Mummyman]

26. Don't change my words around

I didn't say that, and your stupid reply sounds like something a Republican would come up with.

My point is that we shouldn't hang our hopes on a candidate that we don't even like that much just because he's leading in the polls NOW. If the election were tomorrow, sure, the polls would be a great sign. Right now, they don't mean shit.

Your pal,
Eric

[wyldwolf]

28. ah - ANOTHER brilliant retort

My point is that we shouldn't hang our hopes on a candidate that we don't even like that much just because he's leading in the polls

Well, obviously someone likes him. Maybe not the idealogically pure "progressives." But then again, he's covering your 2% and then some.

But if you want to be convincing in your argument (that Casey's the "true" Democrat in the race) then define what being a "true" Democrat means using reference material, sources, facts, and figures.

[Mummyman]

31. What exactly is your problem?

[wyldwolf]

32. I don't have a problem

Casey (Democrat) will clean Santorum's (Republican) clock.

[Mummyman]

34. Then why do you keep being an ass towards me?

[wyldwolf]

39. I'm not

I could be, after all, because you did hurl the "republican" label at me. On DU, debate is encouraged. I would ask you to defend your positions rather than making broad claims.

[Mummyman]

43. okay

When I did defend my positions, you changed my words around.

Anyway, I agree that calling you a Republican was hitting below the belt. I just want everyone to get along.

Your pal,
Eric

[wyldwolf]

58. you offered up opinions

I asked for specifics in post 28 and so far you have declined to give them.

[Mummyman]

59. here

I've given plenty of examples of why I prefer Pennacchio over Casey. Maybe "true Democrat" is the wrong term (I don't know that I said that, but if I did, oh well). But Casey doesn't stand for any of the major social issues that I believe in and Pennacchio does. That's why I don't support him.

Your pal,
Eric

[wyldwolf]

61. so be it

[shance]

25. Chuck Pennacchio is the true Democrat in the race.

DUers don't need to believe me or anyone else, they need to look at the differences between Pennacchio and Casey.

Pennsylvanians run the risk getting a lesser version of Rick Santorum with Bob Casey.

Vote for who you believe in, in the primary. That is why we have primaries to begin with. If Casey wins, fine. Then you can vote for him in the general. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting for you you BELIEVE in in the primary. Don't believe the hype about Casey being the one who can beat Casey. Pennacchio is I believe better equipped to beat Santorum than Casey because Pennacchio will inspire more enthusiasm and support than Casey, because Casey's positions reflect a Republican platform (look at his positions on Iraq and on a women's right to govern her own body).

[Mummyman]

27. I couldn't agree more!

There is nothing to lose by supporting Pennacchio in the primary. Like you said, if Casey wins, then vote for him in the general election. But there's no need to compromise our principles yet.

Your pal,
Eric

[katinmn]

64. Agreed. Why go with more moderates when they keep failing?

Either they fail at the polls or they fail once in office.

We have some great progressives running in many states but party brass wants to knock them out before they get a chance to present their views to the public.

Let the people, not Washington, choose their candidates!

[thatsrightimirish]

29. Are we calling him a DINO

Because he is against abortion or is there some other reason? Not very informed with Casey.

[Mummyman]

33. Here's my list

Abortion is the issue that everyone brings up, but I am against Casey for much more than that. Here's a list:

-He's against abortion and wants to make it illegal
-He says he would have voted for the Iraq war
-He's against embryonic stem cell research
-He's against the separation of church and state
-He loves guns
-He's pro death penalty
-He was in favor of the whole Teri Schiavo incident

These are the reasons that I don't support Bob Casey Jr, and why I am behind Chuck Pennacchio.

Your pal,
Eric

[snowbear]

35. You've gotta admit -- Casey is kicking ass in the polls..

According to all the lastest media anyway..



So if the guy wins the Democratic nomination (which sure looks likely), then who do you support Mummyman? :shrug:

[wyldwolf]

40. because the perfect is the enemy of the good...or

..vice versa...

Some would rather the Democrats lose if they don't meet some idealogical purity litmus test.

[snowbear]

41. Seems that way sometimes, doesn't it?....

...Hmmmm.. maybe Mummyman "is" Pennacchio?

Ya never know..

[bread_and_roses]

44. That list, if accurate, makes him not even "good." People will die.

I havn't followed this campaign but if that list is accurate, I would not vote for Casey, even in the General, were I still living in PA.

I will never, ever, vote for any candidate who is anti-choice. And I will never vote for any candidate who supports the Iraq war.

I don't buy the arguement that another "D" in the Senate will alone bring us any closer to protection of Civil Liberties, protection of Choice, and a ceasation of Imperial wars of conquest for profit.

Choice and War are in a different category from the Bankruptcy Bill, for instance, despicable as the Dem votes for it were (I was so greatly disappointed in Byrd, whom I generally admire). Legislation can be reversed, re-written. But dead is dead. And those who will die should abortion be criminalized or those who are now dying and will die in Iraq and wherever else our wars for profit may take us will not come back to life once the Law is changed, or the war ended.

So a vote for an Anti-Choice candidate, or one who persists in supporting US wars for Profit, is a vote supporting death for my Sisters, death for innocent children who get in the way of our War Machine. That is not negotiable.

If an Anti-Choice, Pro-War Republican wins over an Anti-Choice, Pro-War Democrat, it makes not one whit of difference to me.

[PA Mamma]

45. Could not agree more ...

And yes that list above is accurate.

Nice candidate huh?

[Mummyman]

42. I will vote for Casey if he gets the nomination

[Pennacchiorocks]

47. Pennacchio offers a clear alternative to Santorum

I voted for John Kerry as I'm sure all of you did. Bush attacked him for being a "flip flopper" and unfortunately I think a lot of good people bought into it. Too many people looked at some of Kerry's position on issues like the war and couldn't figure out whether he was for it or against it. As Dubbya himself said "You may not agree with me, but you know where I stand." In order to beat these crazy right-wing nuts like Bush / Santorum, you have someone with clear, unwavering positions that offer an alternative to their insanity.

The problem with Casey is that he avoids talking about the issues and he often gives ambiguous answers about where he stands on them to avoid offending anyone. He doesn't want to say anything too conservative because then lots of Democrats won't vote for him. But he doesn't want to support anything liberal because then he pander to the right. It won't work. People will see through it and we'll get stuck with Santorum for another 6 years.

Read this interesting article about the race:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/12/08/democratic_doublespeak/

Casey can't beat Santorum because he's just too much like him on a LOT of issues that are important to voters. Casey doesn't even support universal healthcare or a living wage (raising the minimum wage enough to bring all working families above the poverty line).

Take the issue of abortion just for 1 example:

Although polls suggest Casey holds a solid lead over Santorum, I believe it has more to do w/ the fact that people are really unhappy with Santorum right now (even a lot of moderate Republicans). See question # 40 in this poll:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11379.xml?ReleaseID=858

After being told that Casey is "pro-life", 22% of Casey's pro-choice supporters say they would not vote; 7% say they don't know what they would do; and 6% said they would vote for a third party candidate.

Pro-choice Republicans won't vote for Casey, but they would be willing to vote for a pro-choice Democrat like Pennacchio. Chuck Pennacchio also supports universal healthcare and a living wage (both of which Casey doesn't support).

And if you're worried that Pennacchio just doesn't have enough name recognition, consider this: If he wins, it will be the political surprise of the century. All of the pundits will be eating their word and Pennacchio will be on the cover of Newsweek and every paper in Pennsylvania. I can see the headlines now "Chuck Pennacchio: The Next Paul Wellstone?"

If you believe in Chuck Pennacchio's progressive message vote for Pennacchio in the primary. Democrats can't become the majority party by moving to the right. We might win an election or two, but it only hurts us in the long run. Just vote your beliefs. There are more Dems in PA than Republicans anyway! The key to victory is turnout. If we have a candidate people are really excited about we win!

I'm not excited about the thought of Senator Casey. Are you?

[usregimechange]

46. Just support the nominee, we need that seat.

[Pennacchiorocks]

48. What good is the seat if its occupied by an elephant in donkey's clothing?

[Zynx]

71. No Democrat could be anywhere near as bad as Santorum.

[PA Mamma]

54. ASSES...

... I ain’t gonna bust mine to get Casey’s in there.

Question is, how many more will feel the same as they learn more about Casey ???

[meow2u3]

62. Let's get real, here: who would get behind someone whose name sounds like

Pinnochio? The repukes will have a field day with Pennachio's name, accuse him of being Pinnochio, who has a long nose because he lies all the time.

Sometimes, your name can be a one-way ticket to an easy defeat. Only the most die-hard pro-choicer would vote for him.

[Mummyman]

66. That's stupid

If last names were really an issue, we wouldn't have a president whose last name is synonymous with pussy.

[Mummyman]

67. Molly Ivins

I find it interesting that everyone seems to like Molly Ivins's recent article about Democrats having spines and such, yet many still want to support Casey because they think he might have a better chance to win. Sometimes I worry that Democrats will never learn their lesson.

[Mummyman]

68. Casey and Alito

Have we figured out yet if Casey would support Alito? I'm guessing by his silence on the issue that he would.

Your pal,
Eric

[kentuck]

69. I thought Casey was ahead of Santorum ???

So we just throw that out and bring someone in to split the vote and give the vote to Santorum?? That's real smart.

[Mummyman]

70. That's not correct.

It's only the primary. Pennacchio said he wouldn't run as a third party if Casey gets the nomination.

Your pal,
Eric