General Hayden of NSA excusing Bush's spying on C-SPAn...

[kentuck]

He says he had 3 of the top NSA lawyers look at Bush's request. And they agreed with it. Get the man out front before the hearings start.

[spanone]

1. So if you get three lawyers to 'side with you' you can break the law?

That's nice to know.

[rodeodance]

24. plus their staff.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. The very same lawyers who said

Torture is legal? :mad:

that said the accused can't have lawyers? :mad:

that said King George can do anything he wants? :mad:

[Igel]

42. NSA was quasi-autonomous, and

has a set of lawyers distinct from DoJ.

I thought it had two top dogs, though, one military and one civilian.

[rodeodance]

3. Hayden was billed as being in charge (opening statement)

[rodeodance]

5. His is the first of 3-4 speeches today (maybe tomorrow) to 'educate" the

people.

[rodeodance]

6. being asked about whisleblowers in NSA

[rodeodance]

7. says to reporter 'I do not know what you are talking about"--said he talkk

d to his staff last friday and none complained of the program. That was not the question asked by reporter--as the reporter was asking about the ones who have already spoke out. Geech!

[HereSince1628]

4. As if that isn't an expected outcome...

So 3 NSA lawyers bought into Gonzales' concept of inherent power.

Why don't we just accept that ALL the lawyers who work for Bush are going to agree with him. Then we can move on and get some people who are really supposed to have oversight involved.

[rodeodance]

8. The WH is trodding out this guy.

[rodeodance]

9. He is evading the question--why over 4 years Pres. did not come to

congress as ask to expand the Fisa program. they say overwhelming volumn many times--but not anser the question.

[rodeodance]

10. Good questions from reporters (not that they are answered)--just "NSA

is going its job"

[rodeodance]

11. 'we are concerned that our county is spying on us"--says some pastor

in the audiance.

[rodeodance]

12. 'you shouldn't worry'--is hs message for people to take back to their

communities.

[rodeodance]

13. it is the 'trust me' attitude!! damn

[rodeodance]

14. kick

[rodeodance]

15. reporters reminding him of the Quakers peace group being monitored etc

[rodeodance]

16. te he asked if NSA is intercepting "Step DOWN BUSH"--group (Feb 4

) on day of Sothe Union address. whow!

[rodeodance]

17. "Bush Step Down" group. Wants direct answer!=

[rodeodance]

18. NSA guy getting hot about how group they are. --

[rodeodance]

19. 'are you targeting political groups?---He did not anser. went to another

person in audiance.

[flpoljunkie]

39. As he left, journalist shouted that he had not answered this question.

And General Hayden cut off the questioning shortly afterward the question from the Knight-Ridder journalist regarding the fourth amendment and meeting the "probable cause" standard in their (NSA) searches--a question that Hayden very obviously failed to answer.

[Deb]

20. Whoa, activist asks if NSA is spying on his group

No direct answer the question. omg

[rodeodance]

23. Hope we see this on the front pages of all major newspapers.

[rodeodance]

21. kick, I hope all are watching.

[rodeodance]

22. another question swept under the rug.

[rodeodance]

25. by the guy who in charge of all the NSA snooping.

[rodeodance]

26. He resorts to protecting America--the talking point.

[rodeodance]

27. He has also deflected questions to the Justice Dept.

[rodeodance]

28. reported--Cheney only reported to some Congress members --and

gave little information.

[PATRICK]

29. A lot of smoke

Indignant bureaucrat defending his turf emotionally. Reminds me of Tenet's emotional defensive speech which said exactly nothing, nada, zippo. Then, for the patient who realize they will get nothing beyond a grade school talking down, he slips in a vague justification for the spying program with the implication that the long suffering martyred bureaucracy- so misunderstood- is utterly blameless.

So with no info really out comes the emotional assurances from the front lines of YOUR defense, you ungrateful sons of guns.

OK, speech over. It was LESS than Tenet, which is much in keeping with NSA's reputation. Except for the Ollie North emotional stuff. Now for Q&A.

OK, now on the spot for FISA warrants. Wow, shaky, incoherent. Basically his tongue is tripping over the fact that he goes by a dual system of FISA and the Executive BUT always the executive with FISA a distant non concern. A tool, not a law?

Now they are nailing the coffin on his duality. Hey, talk to my lawyer. Wow, he is not ready for this.
The second reporter is a great follow up. Duck, dodge.

A churchman outraged! I guess Rove doesn't umbrella the little guys. More stuttering. His answer sounds so bad. We only target enemies who want to kill Americans. Like Quakers?

What a marroon.

CNN softball whore, finally. He's going to need more time than that though. Maybe a helicopter lift. Too rattled. He should have stuck with being a cold bureaucrat instead of laying his "heart" bare.

Guy in a bright yellow Bush Step Down jacket. Challenge to open debate. Hah, no way Jose.
Whoa wait a minute, he doesn;t know how to answer this one. Intel- they can soak it up but they can't spit it out. Now it sounds a bit snippy, like W's "don't you unnerstand what I been telling youse."

"Laying out details" (I'm so courageously vulnerable here). Exit exit.

Someone in the WH had better send out a hook before he DOES say something. Two more soft questions and one supportive of more power for NSA. One tries to help him do a repair job on the bungled 72 rule blow off comment. But nothing but mumbling about "balance" which doesn't address the facts much. Another repair question. This guy is trying to help him on "congressional approval" issue. Like putting words in his mouth.

I think some of the softer questioners know the script better than the General.

Now Pacifica Radio! Who let these people in? I am beginning to get the impression the General has an understanding of a strictly linear military relationship to his CIC rather than an agency head vis a vis the law or Congress.

Now the Arab community asking specifics about criteria. One must be Al Qaeda.

The hook. Two brief questions only. Oh God, WAPO, the spook's friend. Seermed a good question, a bit vague on lower standards and decision makers. Smoke is getting quite smelly and dense.

Great tough question "reasonably believe" replaces "probable cause".

"I was following ordders. I'm no lawyer!" Talking and misinterpeting about fourth amendment when he should be pleading the fifth.

The ordeal is over.

In sum the Gen. takes orders and trumps the law with that and 9/11/ 9/11, we are patriots. Clearly dismissed FISA in one too revealing early crumble. That and some other revealing things should be quoted as opposed to his constant Ollie North routine. Otherwise absolutely none of the details or facts that for some reason he thought he was providing.

Just another bureaucrat in the machinery and the machinery doesn't know what rogue or facist or personal responsibility or the law is.

[rodeodance]

32. hey, nice summary. thanks

[rodeodance]

30. so many forget this has been going on for 4+ years.

[rodeodance]

31. he is repeating -all 3 lawyers said it was lawful--Bush had the authority.

[Deb]

33. Where did the idea (bypassing FISA) orignate from?

will not discuss

[kentuck]

34. He got his orders from Alberto Gonzalez...

Perhaps the Specter Committee can ask the Atty-General that question tomorrow?

[rodeodance]

35. i don't think it meets this week.

[kentuck]

38. Right...

Sorry about that....I guess it's in February?

[jumpoffdaplanet]

36. The General is truly purposely ignorant of the 4th amendment

The last reporter, from Knight-Ridder, focus on the lowering from probably cause in the 4th amendment.

The General insisted that probable cause wasn't part of the 4th.


(my transcript of the last question)

Reporter: My understanding is that the 4th amendment you must have probable cause to be able to do a search that does not violate an american's right against unlawful searches and seizures.

General (interrupting): Uh, the 4th amendment, actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure. That's what the amendment says.

Reporter: But the measure is probably cause. I believe.

G: The amendment says unreasonable search and seizure.

R: But does it not says probable cause?

G: No. The amendment says unreasonable search and seizure.


(end transcript)



So there you have it. A general is too stupid to read the amendment, and so allows bush to destroy it.

The 4th amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



This general needs to resign as well. The whole of the NSA must resign for allowing themselves to be so ignorant of the law.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

37. And just to add.

I did call the General's office to let him know about this 4t amendment ignorance problem of his. I mean he has an important job. He should be warned not to look the fool on c-span.

And I hope someone will send me a care package in jail. :)

[frylock]

41. nice job!

welcome to the board. What brand of smokes would you like in your care package? :P

[flpoljunkie]

40. NYT's journalist repeats Hayden's lie about 4th Amendment w/o correction!

Pathetic! How long will it take them to correct this?

January 23, 2006
Intelligence Deputy Defends Surveillance Program

By JOHN O'NEIL

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/23/politics/23cnd-wiretap.html?hp&ex=1138078800&en=f1a26c18881a59c4&ei=5094&partner=homepage

General Hayden said the lower, "reasonable belief" standard met Constitutional requirements, pointing out that the Fourth Amendment does not mention probable cause, but instead forbids "unreasonable" searches and seizures.

Text of Fourth Amendment:

U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

Fourth Amendment - Search and Seizure

Amendment Text

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment04/

[Sejanus]

43. searches

Warrantless searches are legally conducted thousands of time per day-Similarly, searches without probable cause can be legal and are conducted thousands of times a day (like border searches for instance) Be careful as Fourth Amendment litigation is probably the most complex area in criminal law. One thing that I am unclear-what exactly did they wiretap?