Why Don't Dems Swiftboat Repubs?

[babsbunny]

I know, I know, we are the Good Party, but with these corrupt Repubs, we wouldn't have to make up things!

[crikkett]

1. we're better than that.

Don't need to lie.

[Generator]

28. Ha ha ha

That was my line. But those in the concentration camps or detention centers say it too much. Fuck better..I'm not going to give my life and my children's life to these thugs. Time to wake up people. This is the end of America. If they attack Iran, they will need a draft-and that will be your children. Playing nice is the least of it. I guess you haven't noticed the truth isn't working. Propaganda is working. I'm all for counter-propaganda. I'm not in a position of power-but if I was I would be smearing everyone I could. And I would feel good about it-because these thugs are responsible dying right now. A soldier in Iraq. A child in Iraq. Someone's name we will never know in New Orleans. No matter how much awful shit we post about this adminstration-they are poisoning the soldier's with contaminated water-they were warned about Katrina-they let the true heroes on 9/11 breathe air that is now killing them-it doesn't touch this administration at all.

Oh but that poor Mrs. Alito was crying! Meanwhile, her dear husband is on the verge of being given power to give a president the power of a king. Some counter-propaganda seems to be the least we could do. GOD I hate fucking liberal wimps. I hate it. I will not die for these people.

[benburch]

2. If it isn't a lie, it isn't a swiftboating. nt

[blm]

8. And, we don't control any media that can even focus on the truth, let

alone have the juice to push a lie through, fer chrissakes.

They control the broadcast media - they get away with constant lies.

[acmavm]

3. Because they're gutless. And no guts, no glory (so the old phrase goes).

.

[BillZBubb]

4. To effectively "swiftboat" you have to have media control.

Our side doesn't have that. If we had the media control the right has, we wouldn't need to "swiftboat" anyone, just telling the truth would be more than enough. The right wing noise machine is very loud and very effective.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. to some degree, but also we don't make shit up. That is more important.

Remember, squeeky wheels get the grease.
Our reps have been too damn quiet.

[raysr]

13. Fliers under windshield wipers

anything and everything. This is a war we can't lose, if they get Alito and retain the congress you won't be posting on this board long.

[MADem]

5. We don't build our reputation and formulate our goals on lies, I guess nt

[Rebellious Republican]

7. For the same reason we don't take bribes from lobbyists!

As a veteran I can honestly say that it is just a plain bad idea. You will have opened up the flood gates, when will it stop. Making a mockery of the military awards system and only hurting those that have justifiably earned them.

Here is a letter that I have sent to various news organizations, from a vets perspective not a political one.

Maybe it is worth reposting just in case there are any more questions on this subject.

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am a Decorated Navy Veteran, 1978-1988 active duty. It occurs to me it has become popular sport to smear veterans that have distinguished themselves in times of valor. Who also have chosen to continue to serve our country as elected representatives of 'We the People". These tactics serve no one honorably; they only call into question the validity of the military awards system. It questions any vet who has ever earned an award, it makes people skeptical and places doubt in their minds. So when someone like me displays them, they have a subconscious reaction to ask me if they mean anything!

This tactic was used against the Honorable John McCain, a hero's hero, when he ran in the 2000 primaries. Stories surfaced about his loyalty while in Hanoi as a POW, that was an all time low in politics. Did anyone bother to talk about his history on board the USS Forestal, how he survived the biggest disaster on aboard an aircraft carrier in Naval History. He was then given the option to go home, but he chose to stay and serve. It was after that when he "intercepted a surface to air missile with his plane" and after surviving that was captured. As far as his time in Hanoi, very few people actually know what it is like in a Vietnamese POW camp and try to survive. No matter what happened in Hanoi, one thing is for sure; at least he chose to be there!

I have seen stories in the past dishonoring George Herbert Walker Bush for his honorable service in WWII, as you are probably familiar with them as well. After 44 years of silence, Mierzejewski, who also was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, told the New York Post that Bush had abandoned his crew to death when there was another choice.


You can add Senator Max Cleland to that smear list, guess what, at least he was there. He was not flying the friendly skies of Texas or hiding behind some college deferment, if he had been, then he would probably still have all of his limbs!

We have seen the trashing of John Kerry's honorable service in Vietnam, again, one thing is for sure, he was in Vietnam, and there by choice!

I see a reoccurring theme in all of this; maybe the US Congress needs to review their awards criteria, certainly decorations must be handed out like candy. I will keep that in mind when I look at my Naval Expeditionary Forces medal (Beirut "83") or my National Defense medal, Sea Service deployment ribbon, Naval Enlisted Aircrewman Wings or any of the other four worthless pieces junk that they gave me.

A well read news organization such as yourselves, should be ashamed for allowing it self to be used in this disgusting tactic.

I am one Vet who stands behind all Veterans that have received military awards, This type of slander needs to stop, regardless of who is being attacked.

Please do not allow any further degradation to the military awards system, that’s all some of us have. We are not wealthy, we enjoy a humble existence, content with the knowledge that our value to America is not with material wealth, rather, it is in our distinguished service to our nation. The only thing that we have to show for this when we grow old, are our medals.

To someone who has never served or been in combat, this may seem trivial, however there are many vets like myself who feel that all our awards are being cheapened by these attacks. I beg you to stop these attacks on politicians who have SERVED our nation in combat.

[diamondsndust]

29. AMEN!! You hit it on the head...

NOTHING should cheapen ANY medal earned by ANYONE during war. YOU were there putting your life on the line to protect the freedoms everyone enjoys today. We need to keep those freedoms instead of slowly letting ourselves get stripped of them. It really pisses me off to hear someone who never served (I don't consider W's time as served) to question the validity of any medal of honor from any veteran. To shut them up, just tell them "I fought for your right to ask me that question, what did you do??

Are medals given out too freely? Thats about the dumbest question I've heard yet. Let me tell you something, I don't care if a soldier gets a medal for stubbing his toe in Iraq, they deserve it. THEY are the ones who are there, fighting for our rights and freedoms. War is Hell. Period. Every soldier in a war should get a medal. Just the fact of them being there earns them a medal in MY book.... end of rant!

Anyways, that felt good, thanks! Never let anyone anywhere try to diminish the Honor of a Military Medal and get away with it. Thank you for your service.

[AuntieM1957]

9. it's about values

easier to finger point and name call, scare, lie, divide...

much harder to have a vision.

we may not be very good at putting one forward - but at least we know we should have one.

[raysr]

10. No we're not better than that

We keep losing with that attitude. We have to win, WIN for god's sake. We have to fight dirty. These people are scum. Tell it like it is. Lie cheat, WIN. The time for conscience is over. This is a crisis, calling for desparate measures. Absolutely Swift Boat all repukes, I mean ALL!!

[Rebellious Republican]

17. I have a suggestion, go to your nearest VA hospital, take a good

look at the the vets that have missing body parts. Then tell me you want to be a part of something that diminishes their personal sacrifice. Look them in the eye and ask them if they think their awards should be used as a political weapon, even if it causes doubt about how awards are handed out and how easy they must be to get. I am just damn tired of it, see my post # 7.

[snowbear]

18. Thank you for your service RR ~

I hope you feel the same intensity about what the Republicans are doing to Congressman Murtha. :hug:

Have you seen this great website.. it's pretty awesome! http://fightingdems.america-patriots.com/ :patriot: :kick:

[Rebellious Republican]

21. Yes I do, and have sent that very same letter in post #7 to

CNSNews who ran a Murtha slam piece complete with full name and address. As a matter of fact I sent that same letter to Sinclair broadcasting when they were running "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal." I have sent that letter to numerous politicians and organizations as well. Someone here at DU even asked my permission use it as a template for a letter they were working on. I would love to see everyone use that as a template and start sending in mass. Yes I am passionate about it, hope that answers your question.

:patriot:

[sendero]

26. When folks use the term..

... swiftboating, I don't think they mean "attacking and distorting someone's military service".

What they mean is "going, rhetorically, for the jugular of the GOP and doing it with purpose".

And that is exactly what we need to do. Stop being afraid of the Repubs bleating "class warfare" and point out that class warfare was declared on the poor and middle classes the minute Reagan took office.

Stop being afraid and point out in clear unflinching rhetoric, that the president thinks he is a dictator, that the Republican congress is as corrupt as any Mafia organization, and that they are ruining America.

[Rebellious Republican]

27. I agree with your views as to what we need to do, I disagree

with your definition of "swiftboating". Where does this term come from? A group of Veterans called "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is where the term comes from. Its sole purpose was to denigrate John Kerry's military awards. The term is associated solely with attacking the military awards, achievements and accomplishments of politicians that have served in combat. It is a term used exclusively for groups, organizations and individuals that are "attacking and distorting someone's military service". It was designed to take the attention off Dumbya's non-service and Dick Cheney's college deferments. It has no other meaning, period.

Class warfare would be more like leaving thousands of poor people to fend for themselves say in a hurricane ravaged area like New Orleans. How about the use of eminent domain to evict underprivileged people in areas that people of privilege, say want a waterfront condo and a place to park their boat. Thats something very different altogether.

Yes we do need to point out the dictorial direction this country has taken, we need to shout it loud and often. Yes we do need some Dem's to step up to the plate and not be afraid to shout out unflinching rhetoric.

I do agree with you on those points, but Swiftboating is what it is, we do not need to to go down that road.

snip>"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is a group formed March 23 after Kerry wrapped up the Democratic nomination. It held a news conference May 4 denigrating Kerry's military record and his later anti-war pronouncements during the 1970's. The group began running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which 13 veterans variously say Kerry is "not being honest" and "is lying about his record."< http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html

snip>
Mission
The group is devoted to calling Kerry's war record into question, particularly with regard to the length of his tour of duty and the nature of the injuries for which he received three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star. It has also questioned claims by Kerry that he was sent on an illegal mission to Cambodia in December of 1968.

Navy Inspector General Report on Medals
In September 2004, Vice Admiral Ronald A. Route, the Navy inspector general, completed a review of Kerry's combat medals, initiated at the request of Judicial Watch. In a memo to the Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England, Route stated <11> (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040918/D855P5QG0.html)

Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed. In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards.
Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive. The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable, and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place.
Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active duty activities were public and that military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter.<snip http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth

:toast:

[elehhhhna]

11. BECAUSE NON E OF THEM HAVE SERVED IN THE MILITARY!

[HuskerDU]

33. Bingo!

I was hoping to post that, but you beat me to it.

[elehhhhna]

34. ya gotta be quick here, husker. Welcome to DU!

go cubs!

[Stanchetalarooni]

12. It is a genetic thing.

Empathy. Compassion. Etc.
Some generate this from within.
Some mimic this as is the case of Compassionate Conservatism.
In other words, they can do it to us but we can not do it to them.

[raysr]

14. Swift Boat has nothing

to do with the military, it's become a practice of attacking your advisaries with lies making them prove the lies aren't true.

[Dr Fate]

15. I would settle for them telling the blunt, unvarnished truth about them.

We dont do that enough.

We dont need to lie about Republicans- but we DO need to work more on just getting out blunt, unvarnished, (even if politicaly incorrect), FACTUAL info on them.

[snowbear]

16. Because we have NO microphone...

Paul Hackett (I think) does an incredible job of kicking Bush's ass and NOT BACKING DOWN..



But even he doesn't get the bully pulpit enough..

[Doctor_J]

19. Because we don't have a media arm to keep the lies alive for

weeks on end. The media are the #1 reason the Republic is dead. If they were just even-handed we'd be looking at 60-40 majorities in both houses.

[Lone_Wolf]

30. Bingo...

The Swiftboaters were debunked numerous times and the media STILL brought them in and let them spread their B.S. unchallenged.

[iconoclastNYC]

20. Others point out

That swift boating is lieing but I think things like F911 and the "un" (Unprecedented, Unconstitutional, etc) documentaries are helpful.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Standards.

[TheGolem]

23. Without Repubs

Without the Republicans we would still have plenty to complain
about with the Democrats.

TheGolem

[BrotherBuzz]

24. The hell with Swiftboating....Adlai Stevenson had the right idea

"I will make a bargain with the Republicans. If they stop telling lies about Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them." - Adlai Stevenson (1952)

[Rebellious Republican]

25. Works for me!

Thats the best advice I have heard so far!:rofl:

[seabeyond]

31. lie? dems are really really bad at lying. and... really bad trying to

be cutsie. doesnt come off. even clinton was bad..... kerry tried it with outing an already outed lesbian daughter of the vp. hillary did it with plantation. dems just arent good at it. but even bigger i think, (cause i dont think repugs are good at it either) dems will be called on it everytime from the media. one little toe into not total honesty and they will be jumped on for three days in the press. just not worth it. our truth is powerful enough. it is finding means to get to american people. and for repugs to have the control they do, media, religion,..... and bush being in 30's says a lot for the nipping at the heals of the repugs, truthfully by the dems, even with the constant attack of dem when they are being honest, and smart and insightful

we are just living in a f*ed up nation right now.

[AtomicKitten]

32. Dems just need to get ugly and play dirty -- just like the Rs do.

Carville and Begala ran an efficient War Room in 1991 that deflected much of the crap, although the crap has accelerated since then.

Maybe we could hijack one of their most evil sorts and "turn" them to work for our side.

[DazedandConfused]

35. repubs

I think it's best to sit back and watch them implode