Quit Using the DLC As a Weapon Againt Democrats

[AtomicKitten]

And quit freakin' lying about it too.

On an Obama thread, several people accused Obama of being with the DLC and HE IS NOT !!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2383928&mesg_id=2383928

Old news, people.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html


Some of the extremists here at DU are as careless in their rhetoric as, well, you know.

[xultar]

1. Let them contiue. What's the point.

[AtomicKitten]

5. continue what? lying? browbeating Democrats?

To what end? No thanks. I will not endorse those doing the GOP's dirty work.
Especially when they can't get their facts straight.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. Sorry to have to ask this, but what exactly is the conflict about?

I keep hearing the argument about the DLC. What's the history behind that? Will someone please point me the way? Thanks.

[AtomicKitten]

7. The DLC is to the right end of the Democratic Party spectrum.

Vilified by some of the extremitists here who are incapable of grasping the BIG TENT notion.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

17. Okay

I think all Democrats, right, left and middle, have to gather 'round ANY Democrat politician, regardless of how he thinks, and help get Democrats elected. Once we cut this Nazi Bush regime out of the U.S. we can iron out our differences. For the moment, we have to stick together and stop voting for a**holes like Nader.

[AtomicKitten]

18. I like your clear focus on goals.

And that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. Thanks! As we know, united we stand, divided we fall. nt

[AtomicKitten]

30. And that is how we win elections!

And if we don't win elections, all this kvetching and hang-wringing is for naught.

We have to work toward a genuine democracy WITHIN the Democratic Party, working towards reasonable and respectful discourse, and in the end acknowledging, as you said, that there is strength in numbers, that no candidate is the perfect package, and that compromise is the glue that strengthens and holds the party together.

[skipos]

49. Exactly. If we had dem majorities we would be able to save this country

even if a our majority had a few democrats who are conservative on some issues (Nelson, Lieberman, etc).

Republicans have the presidency, and about 55% of the senate, congress, and governorships. That has allowed them to push to the right.

If we had all that, we would be able to push to the left.

[AtomicKitten]

52. True -

except some of the "purists" would rather not assist in that endeavor and would rather let the Republicans destroy the country.

[AntiFascist]

22. If the Big Tent has to include neocons and their supporters....

then I'll opt for a smaller tent, thank you.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

58. i had the big tent notion explained the other day...

and I TOTALLY agree kitten! Time to pull together folks... Ben Franklin said, "WE CAN HANG TOGETHER OR HANG SEPARATELY" and he didn't mean "hanging out" with the guys.

[NativeTexan]

60. The greatest president in my lifetime...

...once CHAIRED the DLC! If this party goes to the extreme left, we will never win another election. It's OK to stand for what you believe, and I am not talking about being Republican "light". There are SO MANY issues that we ALL agree on. And the platform committee will cover them all, including extremes in both directions in our own party. Democrats argue! Democrats yell and name call! And we do it all amongst ourselves. That's what we do better than anybody. And if we don't handle the BIG TENT IDEA pretty quick, we are going to hand the right-wing religious and otherwise extremists EXACTLY what they want. ARGUE, but don't demogogue...and we will be fine. I honestly believe that the force is with US!

[Warpy]

3. He sure started to sound like one for his first 6 months in office

If he's coming around and breaking away from them, that's great. He always looked and sounded a whole lot better than that before he got elected.

However, we'll stop complaining about the DLC when they stop destroying the party by ignoring the base in favor of big corporate donors and when their economic policies start to reflect working class issues.

[AtomicKitten]

6. aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!! he was never with them!!!!!

Why doesn't the truth matter to some of you?

[jsamuel]

Only legitimate concerns about the DLC need to be propagated

people trying to use it for unfounded reasons give the rest of us bad names

[William769]

4. No complaints from me about what you say.

[ulysses]

8. heh. I figured you were addressing Al From. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

47. Yep, Al From has been using the DLC against the liberal base

This thread should have been sent to ndol.

[patrice]

9. I'm not an insider around here, but I did initially have that impression

about Obama, but haven't thought that about him for a while now.

Has he been saying things that make people uncomfortable? If yes, then he wouldn't be DLC.

But remember, we're not the Fringe. We're the Center.

[AtomicKitten]

10. Obama isn't breathing fire.

Some people think if you don't have a visible vein bulging in your temple you must be with the mealy-mouth DLC. I'm sick of this characterization if a politician doesn't fit into a cookie-cutter idea of activism.

Obama is an eloquent, decent, calm, LIBERAL leader. A future president.

[PVK]

11. Obama knows how to answer a question.

He doesn't dodge--he doesn't apologize--he doesn't attack--he brings the discussion back to what's pertinent.

[AtomicKitten]

12. Just like Clinton did.

One thing I loved about Bill Clinton (and hated about John Kerry) is he answered the damn questions.
He's say "yes" or "no" ... "and I'll tell you why."

And even though some of the extremists here despise Bill Clinton, the DLC produced him, the greatest president of my lifetime.

And until money is removed from politics across the board, people better be damn happy the Dems can raise big bucks. Unilateral purity means certain defeat. I'm not content with the "so be it" ideology in that regard.

[patrice]

13. I'm an Issue person. I (and Many Others) don't require "fire".

I want to hear things similar to "Health Care is as much a Right as National Defense." "The Invasion of Iraq was Wrong." "Alternative Energy R&D will be a Priority." "This is how we will Reform Campaign Finance . . . ."

Strong, innovative things to say on the Issues, discourse on lots of specifics, power sharing, those are the hallmarks of a Free Man.

[AtomicKitten]

16. here, here

and to bring those changes to bear we must wrestle the reins of authority away from the morally bankrupt people in the White House.

A good start would be to be realistic and honest in our rhetoric, particulary within our own party.

[stillcool]

14. So ....let me see if I understand...

If Democratic elected officials vote against the values we elected them for, we here, on a democratic web site, shall not discuss this. Especially as it pertains to a certain group of right-voting, and right-thinking people in our midst. I guess it's the whole rather than the sum of it's parts...and to hell with those life or death issues.

[AtomicKitten]

15. Don't manufacture a false argument to the OP.

I'm saying quit using the DLC as an adjective of scorn, particularly when it's a false analogy.

Period.

[stillcool]

19. I did not realize my argument was 'false'....

if a democrat votes with republicans what phraseology would you deem to be acceptable?

[AtomicKitten]

29. you premise is broad and not the subject of my OP.

You are framing your argument as if it is, but it is not. You will find Dems here DU agree on most issues. Where we part company is on strategy. We simply view the BIG PICTURE different and how to achieve what I assume is our mutual goal - ousting the bastards in this administration.

As po'd as I get at Dems for the votes on this issue or that, I recognize and acknowledge my true seething hatred and contempt is reserved for the GOP.

[TankLV]

53. Their scorn is justly earned. They are virtually repukes in their goals.

It is THEY who wish to OUST the progressives from the party.

Stop trying to rewrite history.

The DLC is a cancer on the Democratic Party. Period.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

21. The DLC tries to say members of congress are with them when they are not.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. I'm sick and tired

Makes me sick to hear some Democrats whining about how this Democrat politician, or that Democrat politician is agreeing with some Republican. The only thing we have to worry about is getting Democrats to be the majority in all levels of govt. Nothing else. ONLY after we've done that, will we have the luxury of being able to determine, through civil discourse, what is best for correcting the savage damage done by the Nazi Bush Administration, as well as determining how best to help the working poor, the poor, the homeless, the disabled, the aged, etc. Until then, we don't have the power, so we'd better stop bickering and buckle up. Let's put on our big boy pants and stop the whining. This is not going to happen without a fight, and without uniting. We need to get Democrats elected, period. For the moment, nothing else matters.

[IndianaGreen]

24. You tell that to Al From!

He is the one who fired the first shot, and then some!

[Douglas Carpenter]

25. there are many nominal members of the DLC (which Obama is not even that)

the same way in parts of rural America you will find populist-progressives who are members of the NRA. I don' think this should be seriously held against either.

But as an organization the DLC largely exist to marginalize progressives and liberals and to promote their very unpopular neo-liberal economic theory and their equally unpopular militaristic-interventionist worldview. One only needs to listen to the ravings of Al From, Will Marshall or Marshall Whitman to get the drift of their rigid ideology and their designs on the Democratic Party.

But, I take your point. Obama is not a member of the DLC and not all DLC members (like John Kerry) are the same. And when it comes down to general elections (not necessarily primaries and caucuses) it is time to unite against the Republicans who are almost always worse than the worst DLC Democrat.
__________________________
Borrowed from:
LynnTheDem
a super-majority of Americans are liberal in all but name
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051107/alterman
Public opinion polls show that the majority of Americans embrace liberal rather than conservative positions...
http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2002-04-16-liberal.shtml
The vast majority of Americans are looking for more social support, not less...
http://www.prospect.org/print/V12/7/borosage-r.html

http://people.umass.edu/mmorgan/commstudy.html

one more poll:

http://www.democracycorps.com/reports/analyses/Democracy_Corps_May_2005_Graphs.pdf

[bvar22]

26. If there is confusion about Obama and the DLC,

it is the fault of the DLC. The DLC, borrowing a technique from the Republicans, pathetically tried to "enhance their image" by publicly claiming an association with the popular Obama.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/4/8/102/32777

Obama, disgusted and nauseated that the Corporate Corrupted DLC would try to claim an association with him, was forced to issue a public statement that he wouldn't be caught dead with the slithering Corporate Snakes of the DLC, and demanded that the Lies which the DLC were publicly posting on their website be immediately removed. The DLC, confused about which LIES Obama was referring to (there ARE so many), overlooked the LIE of their association with Obama (his membership in the DLC), and Obama was forced to confront the DLC about their BALDFACED OVERT LYING a second time.

So, if some here are confused about Obama and the DLC , it is because of the BLATANT DISHONESTY of the DLC.

If some here are confused about what the Democratic party Stands For, it is also because of the BLATANT DISHONESTY of the DLC.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[AtomicKitten]

28. we must be responsible for our rhetoric.

You can blame Katrina on the DLC and it doesn't change the fact that several DU'ers hurled the term "DLC" at Obama in a derogatory fashion. Many of those same people have made a point of announcing that they are the most well-informed folks here at DU, but the fact that Obama is not with the DLC was a "big" thing not too long ago when he had a dialogue with the Black Commentator.

I would say it would behoove those disgusted with the current administration to suck up some of the contempt they have for Democrats and spew it where it truly belongs, on the Republicans. Once the reins of power are wrestled away from them, then we can get "our" house in order.

I will never understand how some people allegedly left-of-conter concentrate most of their bilious rhetoric for those closer to their ideology as opposed to the Republicans. THAT is precisely why we lose elections (+ EVM, etc, of course).

[Jane Austin]

61. I LOVE your bumpersitcker - - the one on the right side of your bumper.

The TERRORISTS win when REPUBLICANS take away OUR RIGHTS!

Not only is it true, but accurately cites Republicans, not just bush.

Wonderful!

[Pithy Cherub]

27. Some extremists are careless with broadbrushing.

each and every person is entitled to an opinion and - currently - the freedom of speech. If there is someone distorting the facts correct the records not the belief systems that don't happen to align with yours. The DLC is not exempt from scrutiny, contempt or derision if so deserved. The DLC is not a port in a storm for all of the Democratic Party. It caters to a select group who believe in a strategy and political stance I find abhorent.

Obama does not wish to be affiliated with the DLC for good reason. If there are those who do not know that, inform them of the facts. But to advocate to "'quit using the DLC as a weapon against Democrats'" is an overt call against the freedom of speech rights we all enjoy. If the DLC is tissue-challenged because their feelings are hurt over light or deep criticism and differences of opinion, then they may need to revise their current occupational status.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the admonishment to those who have the facts correct about the DLC and their ultimate conclusions regarding the value of that organization is falling on deaf ears.

[AtomicKitten]

32. I am not debating the +/- of the DLC.

I'm simply saying it is used as a derogatory adjective even when not applicable.

Did it ever occur to you that some decent DLC members find some of fringe extreme left abhorent? Why is one end of the spectrum's POV more valid than the other?

I find myself dead center/left-leaning in the Democratic party and, quite frankly, find both POVs not only extreme but unyielding and terribly destructive to a cohesive election strategy.

My point is to ratchet down the rhetoric, discuss the issues, but it would be nice if people would quit hurling invectives that are over-the-top, often false, and sometimes laughable. Some people here at DU are so po'd, they just want to pick a fight with anyone. I suggest they turn that fury toward the target the deserves their scorn, this WH and the GOP.

[Pithy Cherub]

35. You don't get to decide when it is applicable to others speech,

only yourself. If you had wished to engage in thoughtful discussion then the OP would have been organized along those lines. Instead, it is written like a wailing howl in a sudden windstorm. You receive back that which you put forth and if the intent was to cogently state the facts and make a plea for more discourse that was thoughtful, rather than using labels like "extremists" one might have had a different tone and response.

The DLC is an exclusive marketing and cash organization that is not worthy of discussion or merit usually. Obama does not belong because he has a differnet value system. I heartily applaud him and stand with him on that point in not belonging to an organization that doesn't stand for the values one believes in.

[AtomicKitten]

36. well, thank you for your kinds words * sarcasm *

As usual here at DU when some people don't like your POV, they insult you. And according to the rules you've set up here, you are not entitled to decide what is thoughtful discussion and what is not, because the truth is, and I've seen it a million times before here at DU, you want a confrontation. Period. You tried invoking one, didn't get a bite, so now you think insulting me will do the trick.

Again, I am not defending or chastising the DLC. That was not the point of my OP. That discussion has been done to death, but damn if some of you aren't always up to beating a dead dog.

Your opinion is extreme. And so is the opinion of the DLC.

I am content to float somewhere in the middle and I will engage in thoughtful conversation with those that are respectful and reasonable, and you have demonstrated quite clearly you are neither.

[Pithy Cherub]

37. Just knew you would make my point beautifully for me. Thanks! n/t

[AtomicKitten]

38. and you made mine and don't even realize it -- not a surprise.

Your opinion is the far left of the spectrum of the Democratic Party and the DLC the far right.
That makes them the extremes. Sorry, but that's just the logistics.

[Pithy Cherub]

40. I did not tell you my opinion. You just have a need to assign labels.

[bvar22]

39. WOW. Everybody is extreme except you...

...in your self-defined "dead center/left leaning" position, and everybody else must ratchet down their rhetoric.

Since YOU hold the only reasonable position, everybody else must unite behind you!
How quaint.

You appeal to people to discuss the "issues", but avoid the issue in my post.
The DLC initiated and perpetuated the confusion of Obama's ties to the DLC!
If people are confused, go to the origin of the confusion (The DLC DELIBERATE LIES) and address the issue at the source.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[AtomicKitten]

41. well, if exaggerated rhetoric does it for you ...

The over-the-top condemnations of the DLC are extreme. Some of the positions the DLC holds are extreme.

There are miles and miles of distance between the two. I do fall within that space. And, sorry to break it to you, but so do most people here at DU.

[AtomicKitten]

42. self-delete

[bvar22]

44. Have YOU seen the polls?

There was DU poll a few weeks ago on how DU felt about the DLC.
Guesss what?
Your opinion was a distinct mnority, so don't use this Logical Fallicy (argumentum ad populum) to rehabilitate a losing position.

[AtomicKitten]

46. Guess what? I don't like the DLC.

The difference is I don't use it as a derogatory insult, particularly when not applicable. I also don't exaggerate what they are all about.

My OPINION is that some of the rhetoric used here at DU is false and melodramatic.

That's what my opinion is FTR.

[TankLV]

56. self delete - redundant comment.

[TankLV]

55. Here here. I heartily agree.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. DLC = Republican, And As Truman Said...

The DLCers have destroyed the Democratic party. FDR is doing 2600 RPM in his grave.

Like Republicans, they've declared war against the US middle class, which is outright evil but also bad strategy. Low-wage policies, outsourcing, and doing ANYTHING to appease the highest bidder - destroying unions, selling military technology to China... whatever it takes. This was a cute trick that got Clinton elected, but more typically it loses elections, which is why we've lost control of everything; as Harry Truman said, "in a race between a Republican and a Republican, the real Republican wins every time".

If we don't get rid of this bunch, we'll never have good government again. They must be expunged.

[AtomicKitten]

33. I think your opinion is extreme.

but you're welcome to it.

The remedy here is to work your ass off for a progressive candidate in the primary.

My money's on Al Gore.

[MannyGoldstein]

57. Extreme - But Correct

Even Clinton referred to his administration as "Eisenhower Republicans". Which was charitable - Eisenhower was a flaming Liberal compared to Clinton.

[Totally Committed]

34. AMEN, MannyGoldstein!

I could not agree more!

"In a race between a Republican and a Republican, the real Republican wins every time". -- Harry Truman

TC

[TankLV]

59. Thank you Manny. You speak for most of us here.

[AtomicKitten]

43. Some people think this discussion was about the DLC

and its merits and short-comings. It was not. My OP is exactly what I wrote.

I find some of the opinions expressed by those here regarding the DLC extreme. They assume the rest us are uninformed or we would think the same way they do. It must be nice to assume one knows everything about everything and everyone else is wrong.

The DLC is also extreme in many of its strategies and ideologies.

Both are the extremes of the spectrum logistically.

I would hope most of us dwell somewhere in between, that we can digest information and come to a rational and reasonable conclusion, never forgetting that our goal is to oust this administration and their horrendous policies.

And to those that use insults as a weapon in discussion, you have the effect of a gnat on the bigger scheme of things.

[bvar22]

45. "And to those that use insults as a weapon in discussion..."

And to those that use insults as a weapon in discussion, you have the effect of a gnat on the bigger scheme of things.
:rofl:

Pot.........meet the mirror!

[AtomicKitten]

48. sorry if the term "extreme" is construed as an insult

but it still remains. Having worked in the Democratic Party for 30 years, I know very well the extremes of the inner machinations of the party, and I assure you some of you are on the extreme end of the spectrum of opinion.

Sorry if the truth offends your delicate sensibilities.



back at ya

[leesa]

50. The DLC does that job quite well all by themselves.

[jonnyblitz]

51. what at least you have changed subject matter, atomic kitten

before you were spending your time telling everybody to shut the hell up and quit criticizing Hillary. :hi:

take care, jonnyblitz, extremist. :P

[AtomicKitten]

54. it's really unfortunate that you insist on twisting the dialogue.

My OP on Hillary was that I did NOT support her, would NOT vote for her in the primary, but would support her if she was deemed the Democratic candidate.

That's it, jonnyblitz, yet you have taken it upon youself to twist and distort my OP to fit your narrow agenda of passive-aggressive bullying and denigration of those you don't agree with.

It's so convenient to lie about people here at DU. Cowardly really.

You do so much for uniting the party. * sarcasm *

[rasputin1952]

62. Locking

This thread is not a discussion, it is a flamefest.

Thank you for your understanding.