Do you really think the Administration spies on ordinary Americans?

[struggle4progress]

Oh, I know John Ashcroft said it was a good idea. But what does that prove?

And, sure, FEMA tried to set up "Operation TIPS" under its Citizen Corps, with the idea that the postman and cable-guy would help keep an eye on us, but why should those of us with nothing to hide be afraid? Anyway, since Congress killed the program, we don't have to remember it, do we?

And, yeah, it's true that John Poindexter of Iran-Contra fame dreamed up a massive domestic data-mining operation, DARPA's Total Information Awareness program. But let's be fair: they did quickly change the name to something that sounded a little better. And, anyway, Congress http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/tia.html"> shut that down, too. So we don't have to think about it anymore, either, even if the Administration was a bit vague about whether they actually intended to shutter the operation.

So, some activists have ended up on the no-fly list. Why would you think there's any agenda there?

And the FBI has monitored a few peaceful protest groups, like Food Not Bombs or those people who live in Denver. And the Pentagon's CIFA has spied on several war opponents. Couldn't these just be isolated instances?

OK, the California National Guard did spy on a Mother's Day rally and then set up a special unit to track dissidents, in violation of the Posse Comitatus act, but the government promised an investigation, announced that the still-secret investigation had cleared everybody, and finally dismantled the unit, I think. So what's the big deal?

Yeah, the NSA worked with local police to watch the Baltimore Pledge of Resistence. Couldn't it all just be a big misunderstanding?

Some people get really worked up about "sneak and peak". warrants. But without the PATRIOT act, could the FBI have framed lawyer Brandon Mayfield for the Madrid bombing and seized his client files? Even Attorney General Gonzalez admits "sneak and peak" warrants were used in that case. Of course, it's too bad that Mayfield was innocent but maybe his innocence is irrelevant.

Recently, the President has said that he authorized warrantless wiretaps of Americans. This confused everyone. There is now an investigation into the leak, which may one day reveal how Bush learned this.

The media, of course, is helping us sort this out in the usual way, as many of us find ourselves perplexed by the convoluted wording of a difficult 1972 Supreme Court decision: "The freedoms of the Fourth Amendment cannot properly be guaranteed if domestic security surveillances are conducted solely within the discretion of the Executive Branch without the detached judgment of a neutral magistrate."

John Dean, for example, is thoroughly puzzled: "There can be no serious question that warrantless wiretapping, in violation of the law, is impeachable. After all, Nixon was charged in Article II of his bill of impeachment with illegal wiretapping for what he, too, claimed were national security reasons."

And John McCain is wondering why the President didn't simply ask FISC for the warrants, although this is yet another example of why John is not President, because if he had paid attention, he would remember the Court has been snippy with the Administration, claiming "the government .. misused the law and misled the court dozens of times".

So why would anybody think our President would spy on anyone? It's not like anybody can find a lot of noisy extremists describing their political opponents as traitors who support America's enemies. Well, sure, there was that isolated incident where Ron Paige called the teachers' union a "terrorist organization" ...

[Dr Fate]

1. I think they spy on domestic political enemies.

And will continue to do so, on a growing scale.

[struggle4progress]

2. Absolutely

[ticapnews]

3. Yes and no

I think they are spying on political enemies but I don't think they are actively paying attention to what I do everyday. No government agency has the manpower to track 280 million people that completely. However, I do think email, phone calls etc are being logged and indexed somewhere so when/if people become political enemies later, there will already be a record of their activities.

[struggle4progress]

4. That's credible.

[NYC]

5. Nice compilation.

Good work. :hi:

[struggle4progress]

6. Thanx

:)

[Bluebear]

12. kick before it disappears

[BlueEyedSon]

7. Don't forget the Google subpoena (which they are so far resisting)

and the compliance of Yahoo, MSN and America Online with similar requests.

[A Brand New World]

8. I don't think they spy on me since I'm completely dull and boring.

They'd fall asleep if they did. But I have no doubt that they spy on those they perceive to be a political enemy, whether they are or not. Such as, VP Gore and Senator Kerry's campaigns. If they spy on Quakers, they'll certainly spy on those who pose a greater threat to their evil empire.

[Catchawave]

9. I think domestic spying in the name of security

is bullshit. It's merely a cover for spying on political enemies.

Very nice compilation....bookmarked :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

10. But, wait, didn't he say he was only spying on terrorists? n/t

[Silverhair]

11. Depends on what you mean.

If by that you mean that phone calls and emails and such are scanned by some super computer - YES.

If you mean personal attention, as in an agent actually listening & reading - NO

However, if the computer selects you for attention, then a human takes a look, and most of the computer hits will be discarded as false positives. But there will be a few who will be flagged. I am confident that I am not one of the flagged ones.

[Neil Lisst]

13. Agencies of the executive are reading DU and monitoring members.

And they're not doing it because of any real or perceived threat. They're doing it for partisan political reasons, to gather information on members, and to follow links to their websites.

My cartoon has had visits the past week from NSA headquarters, IRS headquarters, and DOD locations. All of those visits came through DU, so that means they were reading DU boards during working hours, and following links that interested them.

You'd better believe they're reading DU and following your links to your sites. It's partially to gather information on opponents of Bush's politics, but it's also intended to intimidate.

They have taken a page from the KGB, who used to go into the homes of citizens and leave the toilet used, just to let dissenters know the KGB had been there.

Bush is turning the NSA into his KGB, and the Secret Service into his SS corps.

I saved all the IPs, dates, and information identifying the government entities, put them in snail mail, and sent them to certain Democrats in government. Don't rely on email for such reports. I suggest each of you do likewise. Use snail mail, and let key Democrats in congress know that the executive branch is using government auspices and employees to monitor Democrats on a Democratic board. Eventually, it is a story that will get legs.

And let all your friends in foreign countries know what is going on here in America under Bush. The Bush corps are counting on people being fearful and reluctant to tell their stories of government monitoring and intrusion.

[EFerrari]

19. First, Special Agents everywhere: Where the fuck is bin Laden?

Just asking!

Second, Neil, I've yet to come up with an efficient way to review my firewall entries. It takes a long time to go through them all, and even when I do, am not sure that the info for the originating IP means a whole lot.

But, you keeping rocking them right out of their Converse AllStar Hightops.

:toast:

[Neil Lisst]

23. The cartoon site has a tracker. It's not a firewall. It gives ...

... gives info that identifies IP, date, time, state, location, etc.

IRS headquarters in Washington, DC and NSA headquarters at Ft. Meade both showed up on Monday. Both came through DU to get there, too.

They're using government time and equipment to monitor domestic opponents of Bush. When they're looking at me, I'm tracking them back to their source, recording the data, and shipping it to members of congress by snail mail. I assume all email is insecure.

I want Senators and House members to have the records, so they can use them as need be to prove Bush's executive branch is monitoring Democrats on Democratic message boards, and doing so with federal employees and funds.

I encourage others to do likewise. A wealth of such data will help Dems catch the guilty parties in government who are doing this.

[EFerrari]

24. You know, I thought from the start that those lists of

suspected "terraists" would yield names like Kerry, Dean, MoveOn, Acorn. We've been here before.

Maybe this is why the Boomers are so non grata -- we know better.

Breaking news: They're still here!

[lostnfound]

14. kick nt

[Taxloss]

15. How do you define "ordinary"? n/t

[EFerrari]

16. Let's review: Quakers, soccer moms, peace grannies and Vegans.

:)

[Neil Lisst]

17. don't forget political cartoonists!

see my post above, sf!

[Taxloss]

18. Oh, I knew the answer was "yes", but I was curious about the use of the

word. :hi:

[EFerrari]

20. Sure. And remember, these people are dumb as a bag of rocks.

Good at somethings like spin but overall, they couldn't start a cold car at high noon in July.

:hi:

[submerged99]

21. I belong to a group targetted by the Denver Spy Files

The ACLU sued the Denver PD and won the release of thousands of spy files the intelligence unit kept on the citizens of Denver.

The police definitely keep track of people they think are up to something, but for the most part, they are really inept.

For the most part, their spying consists of clipping newspaper articles and running off webpages and putting them in a file. They also send informants into open, public meetings.

Their field work consists of recording license plates outside of meetings they can't infiltrate and people from the neighborhood who have no connection to any of the surveilled activities get put into databases as well.

As a result, they end up spying on law abiding citizens engaged in constitutionally protected speech because people who are really bent on doing something disruptive don't generally announce their plans or hold press conferences before the fact.

[EFerrari]

22. What a waste of talent.

And I'm glad you're here to fill us in, submerged99.

I bet all of us -- and I mean ALL of us -- can't wait until we're done with BushWorld.

:)

/typo