Is there something flawed in our nature?

[mirrera]

What would cause all the good people to fight for candidates and issues, but not changing the way we COUNT votes?

What would cause voting rights groups to fight for what kind of ballots we vote on, how we fund our candidates, shorter lines at the polls, getting more people to vote, but not how we COUNT?

What would cause representatives to fight for our votes but not how they are COUNTED?

What causes 100 DUers to post on articles about the issues they care about, sign petitions on everything from impeachment to filibusters to walkouts, yet let articles about known flaws in the software that COUNTS our votes, sink like a stone with 5-10 posts by the same people?

Is it a flaw in our nature?

Do we have such a need to believe that our vote counts that we just can't go there?

Yet how sad! Because if our votes COUNTED all these other issues would be solved the way they should be.

By voting IN people that care.
By voting OUT people that don't.

Hmmm sounds like democracy.

People, the time is now!

The Collier brothers have been documenting election fraud since the 70s.
http://VoteScam.com

Diebold has been successfully hacked:
http://votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=645&Itemid=26

It made the Washington Post on Sunday:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/21/AR2006012101051.html

Everything we have suspected is truer then everything we have been told...

A little reality based attention could certainly fan this fire.

Are we too symptom based as a society? Trained to avoid the cause?

Heartburn? Take this pill...no don't give up greasy animal fats!

Nation falling apart? Donate to this candidate, volunteer to get out the vote,...No don't worry about WHERE the vote goes or HOW it gets counted or WHO totals it...

Go to sleep my little darling close your sleepy sleepy eyes.



http://NoBullshiRt.com

[havocmom]

1. The human animal has amazing ways of dealing with injury.

Not the least of which is ignoring that which threatens us so much we feel powerless to heal. So yeah, I guess it is a flaw when taken to a political level.

We laugh about the delusions of freepers. Well, we all have our own. As Americans, elections are pretty fundemental (old meaning of word) and to face their absence in reality is such a grave threat... want some Kool Aide? ::havocmom asks sadly, before wondering off to sharpen yet another pencil::

[mirrera]

2. One reply!

Thanks! I don't know if the lack of response is a poor subject line, unpopularity (which feels a little high school), or the worst which is people reading it and having nothing to say!
Sigh...



http://NoBullshiRt.com

[havocmom]

3. Think it sorta makes my case. People just don't feel they can do anything

and therefore they don't want to think about it. It is just so horrible when one fully considers the imlications. We cling to the delusions which keep life feeling less threatening. Amazing the species wasn't extince long ago.

The old addage about what it takes for evil to triumph comes to mind.

There is some merit to the theroy about popularity too, though. Sadly, life IS a little too much like high school. Think that was my biggest disappointment as I aged.

Damn, just damn.

[magellan]

4. We know about the s/w flaw.

Here's the problem: With the GOP in control of the media and the machines, and the Dems not standing up as one on to defend our rights on this issue (or any other) and having little power anyway, there's not a blessed thing of consequence any of us here can do about it.

But if it's any consolance, I am in complete agreement with you.

[mirrera]

5. We can do something here at DU...

Thats the thing. I have seen what DU can do when people are fired up. When VoteTrustUSA put out an action call to please email the EAC and I posted it, it sunk. They had 15,000 people email! I thought for sure DU would add a substantial number. I even asked if someone with 1000 posts would highjack the thread so that it would get some attention. I believe the time is ripe for the kind of action I am seeing on some of the other issues. Our 2006 elections are right around the corner and it is going to be so de ja vu to log in to the "2006 stolen election forum" although we will attract more members ;-).
Thank you though for your reply, it is a consolation.
I am very frustrated.



http://NoBullshiRt.com

[magellan]

9. I am, too

Frustrated, that is. I still believe in the power of numbers...I just don't see anything changing until a lot more of the American public is informed and involved than currently are. The majority are dangerously uninformed thanks to the corporate media and the shell game the GOP play with the truth.

According to a recent Pew survey, only 46% of the 94 million Americans who use the internet every day read the news. (Scientific American, Feb 2006) Only 3% read "blogs"; I suspect the DU and similar political forums are included in that percent. That leaves a depressing number of Americans who either rely on the WH, cable news or osmosis for all their information, or prefer to live in ignorance.

I've been on the DU for over a year. Not very long, but it motivated me to action. I've signed a myriad of petitions, sent innumerable emails and letters to my reps and others including friends and family, left flyers in public places, volunteered to get the vote out for Kerry in '04...even disrupted a completely non-political forum I run with attempts to inform others. The conclusion I reached after watching the GOP's post-Katrina lie-fest, when all the rage this country aimed at BushCo then dissipated without consolidated action from the Dems, is that we're UNREPRESENTED in our government and therefore as good as hung out to dry no matter how much I (and others like me) kick and scream. Unless, of course, you like Dubya and agree with his agenda.

I haven't given up. I'm just wrung dry. How do we think anything can be changed without first correcting the voting issues...when even that is an insurmountable problem, given the lack of interest (and general unwillingness to believe there ARE issues) from the Democrats in Congress.

[mirrera]

11. I also feel unrepresented...

This may as well be a dictatorship for how much I agree with my governments actions and how they spend MY money. I wish they would give every American a shopping list of where they want their taxes to go. We would have a very different world.

On a positive note, I did talk to the assistant Sec. of State here and he is easy to reach and personable. The conversation was more about me feeling him out on what our state is planning for HAVA compliance. I also asked him if he was aware of California's Sec. of State asking for Diebold's software to be re examined. He said they were following the story but that Maine is ok because we have paper. I tried to get him to see that if there is undetectable fraud and it is above the mandatory recount percentage we have no way of knowing how accurate it is unless we count the paper ballots by hand. he said they are not going to ask any town or county to give up hand counting, but they also are not going to worry about the scanners that are out there. About 80 precincts. So I will start with my town...after my darn taxes and FAFSA for my senior. I have been gathering News articles, DVDs, Powerpoints, etc. I am trying to use only non-partisan info which is hard as we all know because the problem is so clearly skewed (at this time in history) toward the GOP. I am scared, and it is lonely, and I am not one of those "listen well then give a calm response" kind of people. I am breathing deep and gathering info.



http://NoBullshiRt.com

[Fredda Weinberg]

6. Nothing we can do? Speak for yourself ...

Years ago, I offered to volunteer for VerifiedVoting.org - so they could keep an archive of reports.

[magellan]

8. Good for you

I'm glad to know you're doing something that makes you feel empowered.

[AZBlue]

7. I think we're overestimating the knowledge of the general public.

It hasn't gotten much play in the media. John Q. American wants his "news in 90 seconds" (the actual title of the news show on a local radio station) and he doesn't want it to be troubling or bothersome, unless it involves a missing blonde girl in Aruba or Brad and Jen's divorce. John Q. American may not even vote - only 60.7% of Americans did last year and that's the highest number since 1968!

Plus, and this is something I think that's very important for the Dems to remember, it's a matter of simple psychology. People don't want to admit that their government is so corrupt. People on DU are the "reality-based" folks who can admit it and not let it break them. Yes, it's depressing and frustrating but we'll keep working to fix it. A lot of people can't simply can't deal with it. It challenges their view of their world to such an extent that they simply can't process it. If they did it would upset them too much and they might not be able to deal with it (or that's what their fear is anyway). We need to remember this when we present such topics. I'm not suggesting pussyfooting around or leaving out facts - but we need to remember the term "breaking it to them gently." That combined with more coverage of it, or maybe I should just say coverage of it would really get some people moving in my opinion.

[mirrera]

10. But it IS finally being covered!

That is what I am saying. The Miami Herald in December, The Washington Post in January. And what is cool is they are covering the UNCOVERING of the software flaws. For the first time it is not "some crazy internet wacko's suspect blah blah blah..." It is 2 computer experts hacked into the memory cards of Diebold's scanner. It is California Sec. of State de-certifies Diebold and so does 2 counties in Florida. Wally O'Dell resigns and is being sued. ES&S reneges on deal made in florida for no expressed reason. Diebold refuses to give over software to North Carolina and passes up a lucrative contract. And more.
There are activists in most states pushing these issues and here at DU we should be the wind beneath their sails. They/we are doing something. I am purposefully NOT hanging out in the election forum like I used to. Good as it feels to be around people who know, it was giving me false hope. So I have been attempting for months to spread info to the real world. My town bought a scanner after 200 years of hand counting!!!! I EXPECT to be struggling with my fellow townspeople. What I did not expect is that the broad population of DU would feel helpless around the vote count issue. My God we forced them to question the certification of the electors from Ohio! I really feel like we were pushing hard. We NEED the same push now.

Simple question that every person can ask their town official: Where does our vote talley go? Who ultimately tallies it now since VNS has "dis-banded"? I don't know the answer! The clean election activists in my state never thought to ask, and don't know either. That is more then helplessness over something "bigger" then we are. This is boogie man stuff. I think we are all afraid we will DISCOVER that it is too big for us. Just a simple question...even if we assume the counts are accurate...where do they go? Who is calling ABC? That must be a lot of phone calls!!!!

I so appreciate your reply. I am really starting to think there is something wrong with us all. We are letting it slip away this moment of awareness. This crack in the Media Wall. The Washington Post story was pathetic in the face of the big story, but for the Vote Count movement it is a crack we should be busting through.



http://NoBullshiRt.com